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White Eyes

RezblazeRezblaze Member Posts: 606

Wraith, Hillbilly, and Deathslinger all have white, glowing eyes.

What does this mean? Does it mean anything? Was it simply an aesthetic choice?

One thing that seems common in these three characters is that they were wronged by other people in some way, and feel their murder is righteous or vengeance for their mistreatment or betrayals. Could that be a sign? I know they're not the only ones who have tragic backstories, but they're the only ones who seem to think their killing is righteous and justified.

Comments

  • FichteHiroFichteHiro Member Posts: 711

    Reading the Lore of the Entity, it looks like when the Entity touches or "blesses" a Killer, their eyes get white.

  • Raven014Raven014 Member Posts: 4,188

    Wraith wasn't tortured and billy did get vengeance...


    I counter you with Doc. Doc has white eyes but has no reason for vengeance. : P

  • MikeadatrixMikeadatrix Member Posts: 878


    Wraith is tortured heavily. He was an auto mechanic before he got taken, he doesn't look like that normally. Billy got his vengeance but he just enjoys murdering so much. Who would make a meat tree like he did? He's a psychopath with zero empathy.

    I'll see your counter and I implore you to analyze the pupils of ingame Doc to ingame Slinger and ingame Spirit.

    As you can see, the Doc has his pupils showing while both Caleb and Rin have clouded eyes. As previously stated, the personalities of these two characters are incredibly different than Doc's and coincidentally, Cal and Rin have the exact same misty eyes. BHVR does design well and that's like the only asset they have that is constantly solid. I guarantee you, the choice of eyes for two characters that are so clouded by their hate and vengeance was no mistake.

  • Raven014Raven014 Member Posts: 4,188
    edited March 2020

    One last question then: Why doesn't Oni have white eyes? His whole story is about vengeance against those that would slight him (whether they meant to or not...)

  • Seiko300Seiko300 Member Posts: 1,436

    I like the idea that there's some actual lore implication behind some killers having white eyes since this seems to be something that reoccurs in many of them. Hillbilly, Wraith, and Deathslinger but also Spirit and the Doctor to some degree, though I will say it's not exactly the same time type of White as the other three, it's a bit different...

  • VolantConch1719VolantConch1719 Member Posts: 967

    Oni was only truly vengeful against the one noble that called him Oni-Yamaoka. Everyone else he killed wasn't for revenge, but for his messed-up sense of honor, or out of spite if they called him Oni-Yamaoka, not vengeance.

  • Spooky13Spooky13 Member Posts: 1,406
    edited March 2020

    This could even tie into Deathslinger's trailer. After he reels someone in, he doesn't really seem to care until he gets a good look at them, then his eyes go wide and he he starts breathing heavily. Who's he seeing? Bayshore, the man who wronged him and sent him on this path. He let's out his little chuckle at the fact he gets to enact his revenge again and again.

  • CrackgearCrackgear Member Posts: 239

    Onl tat is not not Bayshore but some futuristic mofos from the year 2000

  • MikeadatrixMikeadatrix Member Posts: 878

    Exactly, but he wouldn't know that.

    Again, I stress the similarities between the Spirit and Deathslinger as opposed to him with someone like the Hillbilly, who kills everything and everyone out of morbid curiosity.

  • thekiller490490thekiller490490 Member Posts: 1,166
    edited March 2020

    I think it's some kind of interference from the entity. I like @Mikeadatrix idea. Billy could be tricked to seeing his parents in the survivors as he didn't seek out people to kill unless in a blind rage. then again, Billy is always in a blind rage.

  • JoelwinoJoelwino Member Posts: 548

    I don't know if that's completely true with the spirit, because onryo (Japanese revenge ghost) usually don't distinguish who they enact their revenge on, they just destroy anything or anyone that crosses their path. Even if the person who wronged an onryo is long dead, the ghost will still continue to slaughter and destroy, because they can't be appeased. Even after they are exorcised, the place that they haunted will still be cursed for a very long time.

  • MikeadatrixMikeadatrix Member Posts: 878

    For a traditional Onryo, I agree. But the Spirit is not a traditional Onryo. She doesn't haunt a specific place, she's a wandering spirit that kills for the Entity.

  • JoelwinoJoelwino Member Posts: 548

    I never said that all onryo have to haunt one place forever. If the entity hadn't taken her, Rin would probably still be on her family's estate killing all the Neas that try to sneak in and tag it. There are plenty of famous onryo, like the Yuki-onna, Kuchisake-onna, or Samara from The Ring. Regardless, onryo take out their revenge blindly, not caring who they're murdering.

  • MikeadatrixMikeadatrix Member Posts: 878

    If the Entity didn't take Rin, she would have died. The Entity made her its own personal killing machine in exchange for the murder of her father. Without the influence of a celestial monster, there would be no Yamaoka ghost.

  • JoelwinoJoelwino Member Posts: 548

    I mean if ghosts were real that's what she would've done. And my point that not all onryo need to stay at a specific location still stands.

  • MikeadatrixMikeadatrix Member Posts: 878

    Fair enough, but the white eyes are still relevant as her lore specifically mentions the deal made between the Entity and Rin. I stand by my point that she is not a traditional onryo.

  • JoelwinoJoelwino Member Posts: 548

    True, she can't raze cities or summon natural disasters like most onryo, but her blind murderous rage is what makes her kill, not the fact that she thinks everyone is her dad.

  • MikeadatrixMikeadatrix Member Posts: 878

    Then why did she make the deal with the Entity? Kazan has a blind murderous rage, Rin doesn't.

  • JoelwinoJoelwino Member Posts: 548

    Rin does have a blind murderous rage, as most onryo do. I bet that a not enraged healthy Rin would've said no to the full deal, but she wanted her revenge so bad that she did whatever she had to do just to exact it. In addition, she was dying when she made the oath, so she didn't really have time to think it through. And the whole point/moral of her archives lore was that her rage was inherited, that she had an intense rage that came from Kazan himself.

  • MikeadatrixMikeadatrix Member Posts: 878

    The white eyes still connect Rin and Caleb, nothing has changed.

  • DabihwowDabihwow Member Posts: 1,987

    Personally I do believe the white eyes are ment to trick the killers into thinking that they are killing the ones they hate but has anyone ever considered into looking the black eyes in killers like clown, trapper, and others? Not that I've seen for me killers with black eyes, are in my opinion serving the entity willingly, Clown kills for fun, trapper kills (according to his lore and tome 1) he wants to put these 'maggots in their place'. But thats just me though what do you think

  • KhorzadKhorzad Member Posts: 108

    I am going to be in the minority here because I dislike the “killers with glowing eyes are seeing what the entity wants to and not the survivors” because it makes the Killers less their own characters and more puppets that can’t really interact with the survivors, with only the Spirit being the only one where it more or less fits with her nature, but even then, she can work perfectly without it. Also, I don’t think there is anything concrete that truly confirms the theory, because there is no confirmation that the Killers see anything but reality. Yes, there are certain thematic connections between some of the Killers, like the Spirit and Caleb both wanting revenge, but they are explored very differently:

    Rin was a good person that suffered an awful trauma and was so blinded by her emotions, her anger tat she was consumed by them, and now she is forever trapped in that emotional state.

    Caleb was someone that let himself be consumed by vengeance since he was a child, so he was never blinded by them, more that he didn’t care about the consequences. As an adult, he was an awful person, torturing and killing people for coins or because they pissed him off, yes, he did it as a legal bounty hunter, but that was more him being pragmatic than any moral issue.

    So I can see Caleb killing random people if he believes that there is something for him, and there is in this case, with the Entity giving him coins for his job, which wouldn’t make sense if he is just manipulating him:

    A glass-like coin moulded from the Fog itself. A payment to the bounty hunter for the services rendered.

    I think the eyes are just an aesthetic choice, specially when certain cosmetics change the eyes of the Killers, like Trapper for example, gains white eyes in one of the cosmetics, despite having black eyes in his regular self. The glowing eyes in the Deathslinger are more to make him look different from a normal cowboy than any lore implications.

  • MikeadatrixMikeadatrix Member Posts: 878
    edited March 2020

    Caleb didn't torture people though. He made the Redeemer less lethal on purpose. He was called a vigilante by the devs and there's a newspaper article ingame that questions the morality of the Hellshire Gang, questioning whether they were heroes or outlaws themselves.

    Zarina investigates the Mad Mick Massacre in the prison because the only details that exist about it come from the story about an Irish outlaw that heartlessly slaughtered the warden but we, the player, find out that is not what happened. Caleb was a bounty hunter who was ethnically abused and was robbed multiple times because he was viewed as less than dirt. He worked for the Warden and when the Warden screwed him over and robbed him of his justice (he didn't even want to kill Bayshore at this point, just wanted him to rot in prison) that's when he snapped. Bayshore, in the addons, belittles and insults Caleb despite the fact that Caleb is considered to be the Da Vinci of the West by the Devs. Caleb is not evil and I'm still sticking to my guns when I say that the white eyes on the two killers who can either be seen as innocent during their life or morally gray (Rin and Caleb) is far from just an aesthetic choice. If anything, the coins most likely serve as a way for Caleb to remember that he is being paid to enact this vengeance, which fuels him even more because he sure as [BAD WORD] knows he is good at his job and if you love your job, you'll never work a day in your life.

    Plus, how can you discount those last few sentences in the Deathslinger's lore? They pretty much prove that the Entity can make killers see the people they hate the most.

    I leave you with a reminder about the deal the Entity made with Rin. Why would she want to kill innocent people when the Entity promised her revenge on her dad? She's not a murderer like Myers, Trapper, etc. It's all a farce to feed a primordial space monster for an eternity.

  • A_Can_Of_AirA_Can_Of_Air Member Posts: 911

    I'm sure the devs called them "Entity touched eyes"

    From what I remember, this allows the Entity to see directly through the Killers eyes and see the trial from their perspective. Why the Entity gave them to few select killers is unknown.

    The other theory floating here is that it's a cloud pulled over their eyes, making them see what the Entity wants them to see, otherwise they wouldn't chase survivors so passionately.

    For Rin, It's her father

    For Caleb, It's wanted outlaws/Henry Bayshore/The Warden

    For Max Jr, possibly his parents, even though he killed them already, he's not very smart and could easily be tricked into thinking they are still around and he of course, wants to slaughter them.

    For phillip, his boss. His boss is the only person in existence he would genuinely hurt considering he made him snap, otherwise he was just a normal guy. The Entity needs to give Wraith some form of motivation and that's it.

    I don't think Herman's eyes are Entity touched, I just think it's the sheer amount of electricity flowing through him manifesting in his eyes.


    Other Killers don't really need to be Entity touched. Trapper was tortured enough and had a twisted mind anyway so he just kills because the Entity essentially replaced his father as his leader figure. Plague sees survivors as infidels who need to be sacrificed to her god, the Entity. Nurse could have the eyes but we don't know, she snapped and went insane anyway. Clowns eyes are blacked out, that tells me he's already fit for killing, the same as Huntress, who also has black eyes.

  • KhorzadKhorzad Member Posts: 108

    The first prototypes were disemboweling people, and even as a young child, he was imagining designs that would torture his bullies. Hell, one of his lore images have him testing the Redeemer in a guy (and I say testing, because the guy is caught, so clearly he doesn’t need it to catch him):

    Yes, there was certain discussion about the bounty hunter gang, but that is because they were bounty hunters and as I said, Caleb was a pragmatic person (which is why he made his weapon less lethal, because the deal was to bring people alive), so he probably didn’t do too much unlawful stuff, but that still doesn’t make him good. Yes, some saw them as justice seekers, but there is a reason for the other part of the article.

    The last paragraph don’t confirm anything, given that Zarina had a similar vision of the corpse of her father, so the Entity was just using that spot to manipulate both of them, one to attract him and the other to [BAD WORD] her, but is no confirmation that anything that Caleb is seeing in the Realm is like that.

    Rin may not be 100% faithfully to the image of an onryō (although I think she is, we know that magic exist outside of the entity), but that doesn’t mean that she doesn’t share some of their attributes, like being in a constant state of rage and feeling hatred against the world and everyone else for their fate. We saw in the archives how her familiar ties with the Oni made her lash out against people in rage and had unwanted thoughts that didn’t made sense with her personality, so she is now like that, 100% of the time, so full of rage and hatred that she doesn’t care about anything but making anyone suffer.

  • MikeadatrixMikeadatrix Member Posts: 878
    edited March 2020

    Thanks for referencing the Entity touched eyes that the devs refer to, that was something I should have brought up way sooner to back up my point.

    In response to the image, Caleb was testing it out on a man that was robbing a Chinese laundry. Consider the Wild West: robbery was a crime that was punished with hanging. Like I said, morally gray. He's not evil and punishing outlaws and thieves doesn't make him evil. I guess we have different notions of morality because I grew up on Westerns and to me, Caleb is the pinnacle of what it means to be a very morally gray hero.

    The last paragraph does confirm everything, not just with Caleb but with Zarina. Thanks for bringing her bit in, it makes my point stronger. The Entity manipulates the people it brings into its realm by any means possible, for Zarina she saw her dad and was taken in the moment of her grief, making her vulnerable. With killers, it tortures some (Trapper, Wraith, Hag), it lets some kill for fun (Ghostface, Clown, Shape), it lies to others (Spirit, Deathslinger, Plague). By discounting the Entity and its ability to bend reality to suit its needs, we're ignoring a power and skill it has. By discounting its ability to pull the wool over the eyes of those it knows it can use to provide for itself, we are reducing the character to a one-note, cliched space tyrant. It's not. It's a mind breaking horror of unimaginable power and prowess. In turn, we also devalue the character of Caleb by making him a heartless serial killer when he is explicitly written to be a complex and conflicted bounty hunter that only brings in live bounties of criminals, punishing only those who truly give him a hard time (Branding Iron Add-on). Plus, is it not poetic irony that Caleb, denied opportunities because of his Irish ethnicity, stolen from by a rich tycoon, sent to jail for fifteen years in response to this, chose to become a bounty hunter so he could send Bayshore away to prison for life, then found out the warden who offered him justice betrayed him just like Bayshore did, and is then made to serve another person of high power for an eternity so he can try to get justice for the betrayals he went through? Yet, despite all this, the fact is that the Entity is using him, lying to him, just like society did, just like Bayshore did, and just like the Warden did. It's a vicious cycle for the Deathslinger and it's a great story that the devs crafted.

    With Rin, I stress the lore because her lore is crucial to understanding her as a character. Yes, she has Kazan's rage, yes, she is a very strong Kendo fighter but she is not evil and she is not just full of rage 24/7. She is plagued by both sorrow AND rage 24/7 despite her circumstances which makes her more complex than a traditional Onryo that exacts her revenge blindly and vehemently forever without care of who she hurts. Why we keep fixating on this deity specifically despite no killer in DBD being a direct translation of a real-world character or trope blows my mind, but, alas, what can you do. This is what makes the deal made between her and the Entity mean so much, she gets to have endless vengeance against the man who brought her so much anger and grief while the Entity is really getting fed gluttonously with all the innocents she is unknowingly killing. To conclude I bring up one last anecdote, the Entity wanted Rin's dad, he had the same rage Kazan had, he had his blood more so than her, but she chose Rin because it knew that Rin could be easily manipulated with a line of bullshit that would make her kill for an eternity.

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