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Easy fix for SWFs: Slow then down like Thana

An example would be a 15% mandatory for being in an SWF then an extra 10% per player in group


4 man SWF =

100 - ( 15 + (15 x 4))

100 - ( 15 + 60 )

100 - ( 75 )

= 35% speed per player

Team speed on a gen = 140%


0 man SWF (4 solos)=

100 - ( 0 + (15 x 0))

100 - 0

=100% speed per player

Team speed on a gen = 400%


2 man SWF & 2 man SWF =

100 - ( 15 + (15 x 2) )

100 - ( 15 + ( 30 ) )

100 - ( 45 )

= 65% per player (for both SWF's)

Team speed on a gen = 260%


3 man SWF & 1 solo =

100 - ( 15 + (15 x 3) )

100 - ( 15 + ( 45 ) )

100 - ( 60 )

= 40% per SWF player

+

= 100% for solo player

Team speed on a gen = 220%



Implement this and tweak around the 15% numbers and we have some balance to this game. It isn't perfect but it is somewhere to being fair to all sides. Killers wouldn't be looking at skipping lobbies, solo survivors would be rewarded, SWFs could play with their friends and BHVR could display SWF groups. This is likely to split SWF groups as this is a nerf to their power, but a fair nerf where a base could be balanced from.

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Comments

  • supersonic853supersonic853 Member Posts: 2,328

    The only problem with this is if its a 4man and the person already has thana thats massive slowdown (which not all 4mans are godly)

  • mouse0270mouse0270 Member Posts: 563
    edited March 18

    The numbers would need to be tweaked, also they would have to be voided if the killer runs any slow down perks. Because this on top of thanta or dyning light or pop, would be stupid strong. A killer would literally regress a gen by more than you could have done to it.

    To be clear, I am being sarcastic, as this would be crazy strong with the addition of any slowdown perk a killer may run.

  • Gravewalker200Gravewalker200 Member Posts: 411

    I might be new to this war but what is up with everybody wanting nerfs everywhere

  • IrisoraIrisora Member Posts: 553

    Devs refuse to touch SWF in any aspect. Not gonna happen like the other thousands suggestions that people did in the course of this 3 years.

  • LetsPlayTogetherLetsPlayTogether Member Posts: 2,117

    How about making killers slower for being killer?

  • LetsPlayTogetherLetsPlayTogether Member Posts: 2,117

    Yeah sure the game favors survivors ... lol ... this never gets old, man.

  • IrisoraIrisora Member Posts: 553

    Like survivors trying to defend the indefensible. A classic

  • andyollollollandyollolloll Member Posts: 940

    Interesting how much negativity this has brought, yet not a single decent arguement against why this shouldn't happen...

    Post 1: @supersonic853

    >The only problem with this is if its a 4man and the person already has thana thats massive slowdown (which not all 4mans are godly)

    1.1 SWFs currently break the game with communications compared to solo survivors, thana would work as usual but as mentioned the SWF numbers can be tweaked.

    1.2 Not all 4 mans are godly but then why do they have an advantage over solos, it needs to be fair balance the game.

    Post 2: @Aven_Fallen

    >Yay, getting punished when playing with your friends. <3 <3 <3

    2.1 Balanced not punished (see 1.1)

    >I mean, surely every 4 man SWF is a highly coordinated Squad. At least this is what people are claiming.

    2.2 This isn't what is being claimed, see 1.2

    >btw. how many SWF-Threads are you planning to do so? You seem to be quite sensitive about this topic.

    2.3 If SWF threads including mine were and are still previlant then that is likely due to there being something BHVR need to address. I heard if killers are lobby dodging SWF's you have to ask the question... why, and shouldn't it be fixed?

    Post 3: @mouse0270

    >The numbers would need to be tweaked, also they would have to be voided if the killer runs any slow down perks.

    >Because this on top of thanta or dyning light or pop, would be stupid strong. A killer would literally regress a gen by more than you could have done to it.

    >To be clear, I am being sarcastic, as this would be crazy strong with the addition of any slowdown perk a killer may run.

    3.1 Correct the numbers would need to be tweaked/balanced, BHVR have the stats and are also well aware SWFs broke their game. See 1.1.

    Post 4 & 5: @Gravewalker200 @mouse0270

    >I might be new to this war but what is up with everybody wanting nerfs everywhere

    4.1 Greetings fellow new DBDer, people usually want buffs or nerfs which tend to be the main side they play or 'main'. I currently play survivor but enjoyed killer in the lower ranks, once you progress to high ranks then onto SWF teams it becomes obvious the games flaws.

    Post 6: @Irisora

    >Devs refuse to touch SWF in any aspect. Not gonna happen like the other thousands suggestions that people did in the course of this 3 years.

    If devs refuse to touch SWF then who plays them? On PS4 there are many many SWFs, it isn't to prevent friends having fun but to balance the game so everyone has fun.

    Post 7 & 8 & 9 : @LetsPlayTogether @supersonic853

    >How about making killers slower for being killer?

    Any reasons @LetsPlayTogether , you don't seem to be explaining why or even if this is anything to do with this post.

    >Sounds like something youd want being a survivor main even though the game already favors you.

    @supersonic853 He may have a point, although he should really post this elsewhere unless it is relevant to this thread IMO.

    >Yeah sure the game favors survivors ... lol ... this never gets old, man.

    @LetsPlayTogether and guys please try to be constructive and on point.

    Post 10: @Aven_Fallen

    >Just something on a more serious note, since OP seems to forget about this in his SWF-Hate:

    >How are Solos rewarded?

    >If I play Solo with a 3 man SWF, their action speed are reduced. While I have my normal action Speed, I will have 3 teammates who are slow on Gens (and I am not talking about those who simply are not doing Gens here) and also 3 teammates who will heal me super-slow when I am hooked?

    >So despite playing Solo I will be faced with disadvantages.

    @Aven_Fallen Currently whenever I play with a SWF group the odds of me escaping are greating improved, we are talking about addressing the balance so that friends can play together fairly to have fun and for killers to have fun rather than lobby dodge because playing SWFs just isn't fun for them.

    I fully understand when I play in a SWF my rank rockets, we all know SWFs have broke the game but bringing balance benefits everyone, survivors, killers and even BHVR. I look forward to the day I don't mind playing killer or survivor but until it is fun for me I will have to continue playing survivor.

  • RivynRivyn Member Posts: 2,193

    You seem to trivialize the power a simple 'killers on me' to your group has. You don't need to be a 'highly coordinated squad' to completely dominate a killer. This isn't about 'getting punished for playing with your friends,' this is about balance. But seeing as survivor fun prioritizes that, or even killer enjoyment, you keep thinking that.

  • Johnny_XManJohnny_XMan Member Posts: 2,912

    @Rivyn

    The game has evolved and SWF isn’t that reliant anymore. There are so many tracking perks they have introduced that completely negates the only counter survivors really had when they don’t have information on where the killer might be: immersion.

    Also the buff to stealth killers which to me where the ones who were suffering the most has made it near impossible to be able to confidently say “they are on me”. Sometimes that actually costs the team time because someone might say that and then realize the killer actually switched and now the person working on the gen isn’t safe anymore.

    The game is a lot easier for killers now more than ever.

  • TunnelVisionTunnelVision Member Posts: 863

    Easier fix!

    Solo queue for killers..

  • PureHostilityPureHostility Member Posts: 425


    The changing of targets (be it a stealth killer or not) at best will confuse the group for max of 10 seconds. The information will be relied instantly to the rest of the group anyway, giving heads up to the other 1-3 survivors.

    Thats a lot of valuable information, even if slightly delayed. Working on a gen with killer chasing someone close by is always a risk of killer switching targets anyway, in most cases remember that SWF teams usually have more survivors being able to observe what killer does than just the guy who is being chased, thus removing a lot of mind games or potential ambushesand often removing the power of splitting pressure.

    SWF does indeed need a nerf, or rather having heavy tweaks and implementing various limitations (i.e. Not being able to use aura reading perks that do reveal killer's aura or his belongings), slowing down the progress done by them isnt a solution either, remember that 3 man swf also comes with 1 solo survivor. Direct nerfs to performance of swf group impacts also solo survivors in the game and trust me, facing 4 man swf is as annoying and disgusting as being the solo survivor in a lobby of 3 man swf.

    I am in the progress of writing my 2,5k hour feedback that bases my observations, experience and suggestions on my play time since day 1 of dbd release and some from beta gameplay videos.

    Game isnt in a healthy state and needs various changes to certain aspects that were either not changed since their introduction or are misunderstood by bhvr. The elephant in the room is indeed the SWF, it is the major source of balancing issues and the bigger reason why our community is so toxic (i.e.the bigger the group the bigger entitlement is, it is proven by dbd or my own experience of me playing with my friends in many different games).

  • MPUKMPUK Member Posts: 357

    A little while back they released stats on SWF groups and how often they were in game and it isn't as much as you think. I'm sure you will dismiss this because it doesn't fit your narrative.


    When you get to better ranks just because you don't do as well doesn't mean you are up against SWF. I have been accused of being SWF many times when I am playing solo, just because I have dropped hooks, taken hits for people at hooks and body blocked the killer when he is attempting to tunnel. You just get survivors who are more willing to do this in better ranks.


    As for 140% team gen speed that is a completely stupid idea. Nobody would work together, they would all hop on a different gen, may as well all pop multiple gens at the same time than all group together on one gen. There is a reason no killer plays the secret offering to have all the survivors start separated.


    Nobody is going to play a game where they get a 75% speed reduction because they have friends. It is such a stupid idea. I play quite a lot of killer in red ranks(I only say this as I expect people to respond with the "you must be rank 20 if you don't see the problem with SWF" generic response) and I just don't see the point in crying about people playing with their friends. Sometimes I lose and very often I win. I don't even consider if they were SWF or not when I lose. Why bother? Just go to your next round.


    Excuses surrounding SWF get made a lot and I think often the killer who is blaming SWF is in fact wrong and it was just a good group of people who know working together is how to win.


    I do worse in my SWF than solo because we have a wide range of ranks in the SWF, most of the time we are talking rubbish and not about the game at all and I am far more likely to make stupid plays to try and protect the weaker members than I would in solo queue.


    Please stop thinking every SWF group is a professional group who want to obliterate killers, many of us are just playing with friends and messing about.

  • RakimSockemRakimSockem Member Posts: 1,228

    Woah, slow down there buddy.

    You talkin too much of that logic speak. We don't do that here.

    Hate counters logic and they don't actually care about the solo survivor experience or how ridiculous their numbers are in the first place for how much they want to slow down SWF groups.

  • White_OwlWhite_Owl Member Posts: 2,817

    Oh yeah, can't wait to play solo with other people who do everything extremely slowly!

  • SunaIIanuSunaIIanu Member Posts: 392

    Doing a gen with 35% action speed would mean that a gen takes more than three minutes when you are working on it alone, right?

    That's just crazy.

    Also, as other people already pointed out: Not every SWF is the same, an low rank SWF or an swf without comms is not the same like a sweaty rank 1 SWF. Punishing them all is not fair and won't improve the game.

    I personally think they should change object and some other perks like ds, so that they are less abusable in a SWF (and in general).

    Scott's Trial Warmup also sounds like a good idea, so it would be interesting to test that.

    But I'm pretty sure, that general SWF nerfs across all ranks and players will do more bad than good.

  • Johnny_XManJohnny_XMan Member Posts: 2,912

    @PureHostility

    Contrary to popular belief , SWF groups aren't telling each other every little thing the killer is doing every single second.

    Like I already said, even in SWF you can't reliably play like this. You have many more tracking perks now as killer now then ever + if I see the killer whether through an aura or just physically chasing, I will point (emote), which is still the same exact thing.

    Again, it is not as reliable as you think. Most people in SWF groups just want to play with their friends. Period.

  • PureHostilityPureHostility Member Posts: 425

    I have no idea why you said that, as I never said all SWFs are using comms or playing in a way that could be considered annoying or abuse the balancing of the game.

    But due to you mentioning it, you need to understand the issue we are dealing with here. Not all who use SWF are using comms or abuse balance flaws but all who do use comms and skew said flaws in their favor are indeed using the SWF. Thats the problem.


    SWF by itself isnt a problem, it just allows you to play with specific people, even though it is against lore (unless recently introduced into tomes) or initial concept of the game. That feature just allows people to actually DO abuse game design of dbd to their favor, such as gaining unfair advantage over opposing party.


    Just because you or some other party doesnt try to use power of communication to skew the already shaky balancing of dbd, doesnt mean there arent people who dont do it, as a matter of fact a lot do it, just as a lot want to just mess around or play with pals without comms.

    The issue still is there, swf is open to the abuse of game's mechanics and that should be adressed without completely destroying it.

  • MPUKMPUK Member Posts: 357

    Against lore? Are you [BAD WORD] serious right now? Oh you can't play with friends because in the lore of the game they don't know one another.


    Will people be banned from playing the same character in a round too?


    Jesus [BAD WORD] christ the absolute bollocks that comes out of killer mains astounds me at times

  • andyollollollandyollolloll Member Posts: 940

    Being the OP I can see many haven't read the original post such as the slow down being tweaked but being taken as fixed.

    The idea is sound no matter what level of SWF and allows people to play with friends in a balanced way.

    Another arguement raised was just for killers to choose to play against solos and extremely easy to implement. I've noticed this tends to raise more of a storm with the general consensus being that survivor queue times would take forever because nobody wants to play SWFs.

    If killers don't want to play SWFs, that is a HUGE problem for everyone but with this solution it attempts to balance.

    I play SWF and solo survivor and destroy killers mainly in SWFs, I enjoy having fun which is why there is a decline in killers, causing long survivor queues, causing red rank auditors playing yellow or green rank killers. BHVR want to hide this by hiding ranks, I'm just at a loss as why destroy this game instead of making it fun for everyone.

  • xenofon13xenofon13 Member Posts: 1,064

    @andyollolloll "Are you playing with your friends?? Punish!!!" No. You're just obsessed with swf's. Just dodge if you get mad when you loose. And i think no one reads your nerf pages. Too boring. It's just a game. Relax.

  • andyollollollandyollolloll Member Posts: 940

    I understand you don't want to talk about the problem @xenofon13 if you are already having fun in SWFs but whilst there is imbalance and unfairness in this world I will not rest... starting with BHVRs attitude towards failing to balance their game ;D

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