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Stop punishing killers for being efficient. (and fix matchmaking)

edited April 2020 in Feedback and Suggestions

The pictures provided below are from a game on the new map, I was playing as Trapper. And I managed to keep them all busy enough, and placed my traps well enough, so that my chases were short. And my traps were trapping survivors for me (even during chases with separate survivors.) By the time it was over. I had killed all 4 of them. AND stopped them from doing a single gen. I was going around damaging them at any point I could, after all. So, good chases, mixed with good trap placements, mixed with good gen pressure. You would think that would mean you would get two pips, or even ONE pip. But no! I This wasn't good enough. Killing all 4 survivors and keeping them from doing the objective, in an efficient manner, wasn't good enough.

This wouldn't even be a big issue if it weren't for Survivors being rewarded, even if they lose! A survivor can still get pips even if they didn't manage to escape. Which is absurd, especially considering how much more "lax" it is to play Survivor already. They have tons of free time to dick around, killers have to be performing at max efficiency at all times.

I get that if you want to get your rank up as a killer, you have to 'play with them', perse. Mess with them and ######### around a while. But that's the thing. KILLERS DON'T HAVE TIME TO MESS AROUND. We do not have the time to get our emblems the way the game wants us too, because if we dick around and 'play with our food' so to speak, that's just giving the survivors time to escape. It's absolutely unreasonable.

And for god's sake, fix the matchmaking so red rank survivors aren't getting put with low ranks.


  • YAMIHOGYAMIHOG Member Posts: 19
    edited April 2020

    TLDR; if a killer operates at max efficiency, they get punished. If a survivor operates at even half of what's expected of them, they can at least get some benefits.

    Let no one tell you this game isn't survivor biased. It is. And the devs themselves even admitted it, don't forget that part.

  • GodotGodot Member Posts: 806

    I play both survivor and killer and this does sound stupid, but I think it's fair.

    If there's a match where the killer wins super fast, it's not fun for the survivors and in some cases it's not fun for the killer either.

    But everyone thinks differently.

    Personally the game is only a win for me as killer if I get more than 20k points and at least 2 kills.

  • YAMIHOGYAMIHOG Member Posts: 19

    I can kinda see yer point of view. I disagree highly with how 'fair' it might be. But I definitely see what you mean

  • PrettyFaceKatePrettyFaceKate Member Posts: 1,706

    The emblem system is broken and is getting scrapped for practical purposes. Some killers are affected more than others due to how their power works. You can safety pip with 0k in the red ranks. I did it a couple of weeks ago with Nurse and the thought had never crossed my mind that it was possible. On the same token, you can depip 4k with something like Trapper even in ranks with easier pip requirements. I agree that if you 'kill-rush' you should rank up and 'theoretically' be facing better survivors.

    With that out of the way, the issue is that there's no win condition and that's why the emblems carry little value. A 4k is not your win condition. We can argue to no end about that, but the hard fact is that it's nowhere set as a win condition. The game would be broken if it was balanced around that, by the way. That works on both sides. Survivors don't get rewarded if they lose, contrary to what you said. There is no condition that defines an escape, individually or team-based, as a win.

  • OhnoesOhnoes Member Posts: 608

    Stop punishing survivors for being efficient lmao. You can end the game fast as either one and get little points. At least as killer if it happens you get BBQ stacks if you got it. As survivor you get #########. WGLF requires the game lasting long enough to get stacks since the requirements are higher (Actually requires risks) and being 3 perks. The BP system being based around extending the game is centered around 1) Everyone having fun and 2) Satisfying the entity per the lore. In terms of rewards survivors get far less. A bad game as killer tends to result in more BP even without BBQ stacks. No one cares about pips because the rank system is just grind. That's why the new mmr is wanted. That's also why you even won your game. It's not good matchmaking to be facing a rainbow just like its not when its a yellow killer against far higher ranks.

    You're not being punished at all. You're making a choice to end it faster. If you cared about maxing your emblems you'd just go play with your food basically till they served their purpose and kill them. That doesn't mean you go turn it into a farm game for them. That means you focus on what you want out of it and me personally I also use the time to try new things.

    The problem with the point system for killer is only with the malicious emblem but I guess the same could be said about survival emblem for survivor. Every other emblem can be maxed fairly easily for killer. -You- are fully capable of controlling whether you pip or not in games you won.

  • GoshJoshGoshJosh Member Posts: 4,502

    I second some of this. A survivor can remain completely hidden/untouched, do their objective - generators, gates, getting out - and score far less than a killer. Survivors can't force a chase for boldness points, and killers can camp and prevent altruism. Meanwhile, killers have complete control over all four of their scoring categories.

    And yes, getting WGLF stacks is a pain that offers no benefit other than bonus BP to the user. That's why I proposed in another thread that it has another effect added to it (https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/135350/secondary-ability-for-were-gonna-live-forever#latest). I liked some other users ideas for how it can be buffed.

  • VikingWilsonVikingWilson Member Posts: 789

    Hard to queue even matches with all of these SWFs. First come first served basis for killers and, as we all should know by now, green killer is the new red.

  • YAMIHOGYAMIHOG Member Posts: 19
    edited April 2020

    Everything you said is factually wrong. It's even listed on the main damned site that you're objective as killer, is to kill.

    I'm not talking about BP anyway, I'm talking about RANK, the PIPPING system, did you not read the post? I bet you didn't, you're likely just another toxic survivor main who tbags at the gates, refusing to leave unless the killer watches you click your dipshit little flashlight.

    So I'm not going to take anything you say seriously, since, as a survivor main, you're entitled and probably want a dead-hard buff that lets you stun the killer. This is the only reply you're getting out of me, as you don't deserve any more than this. Bye.

  • hex_genrushhex_genrush Member Posts: 736

    Sometimes I’ve ended the game in like 3 minutes as nurse by slugging everyone and I will end up getting a legendary black pip or a de pip.

  • SmifelSmifel Member Posts: 3

    i had a problem with the matchmaking system to.

  • MankyManky Member Posts: 152
    edited November 2020

    you need to stfu lmao

    wake up my guy. play the game a bit more. get better at survivor. stop expecting the world to revolve around you. the game isnt the problem, you are.

  • MankyManky Member Posts: 152

    My point of view here is a mix. I do 100% agree that it is harder to pip as killer. That needs to change. They punish you for not taking your time. If you slug everyone and 4k with 4 hooks you depip. Its ridiculous. I don't think the solution is making it harder for survivors to pip as that would just make them sweat more, but having the emblem system gaurentee a pip if everyone dies would be nice (if they add a way to do that but it doesnt work for facecamping or other bullshit strategies that would be nicer.) As for the whole survivor sided thing, my perspective of that is that it varies. Some aspects of the game are very killer sided, and some most aspects are survivor sided. Overall, the game is survivor sided but there are some things that piss me off like hit confimations when playing survivor. Its pretty hard to play against killers on laggy servers when a hit on their screen counts when they are 5 meters behind you on your screen.

  • batax90batax90 Member Posts: 879

    For winning and losing it depend on the player some player see a pip as a win other see kill or escape. In that example the killer stomp the survivor so he should be reward with a pip but he get nothing. I can assure you the rank 13 and 8 pip the rank 5 prob black pip and the red rank one prob de pip but im not sure for him its really hard to depip as a survivor. So if we follow that logic the killer get punish for behing better the bad survivor get reward for getting stomp that not really fair

  • alaenyiaalaenyia Member Posts: 550

    Lol, clearly this match did not go the way OP describes. For starters look at the survivors scores, he was not keeping them busy. If they had been working on gens, being chased and hooked and offhooked multiple times their scores would be a lot higher. Basically this screen shot shows me this guy played super toxic, did not complete 3 out of 4 of his own objectives and is blaming DbD for shorting him his pip. But if he had just actually played the game, he would have pipped just fine. If pips are your goal, you will need to actually engage the game. If ruining 4 other peoples match was the goal, it appears you were successful.

  • alaenyiaalaenyia Member Posts: 550

    You are right it is harder to pip as killer and too easy as survivor (IMO). But if your strategy is to slug 4 survivors for the 4k, you 100% should not get a pip, this type of toxic gameplay should definitely not be rewarded. And the game swung killer-sided over a year ago. I have played over 2 years and have seen most changes swing the pendulum toward the killer. All survivor items have been nerfed, EGC is vastly killer-sided and the killer gets credit even if he doesn't catch the last person, hatch is killer-sided, like you pointed out hit boxes are crazy, everyone's got a 6 foot arm these days.

  • MankyManky Member Posts: 152

    I dont think slugging is at all toxic. Its a good strategy to get a win. If you dont like slugging, then its your job as a survivor to avoid it. Get away from the people that are down until they are 99 recovered. Don't let the killer get that last slug. If you find it a consistant problem for you, bring unbreakable. Slugging is a strategy that is high risk, high reward. It can go wrong in so many ways. All it takes is for the killer to take a few seconds too long to down the 3rd person for the first person to be picked back up again. To get a slug game to work, you need to be able to end 2 chases in 30 seconds, even less with unbreakable. That is not an easy task at all. Good nurses, huntresses, plagues and other snowballing killers is the best way to do it but even then it takes a lot of skill and possibly luck to down all 4 survivors at once. It annoys me to be called toxic in the post game chat because the survivors were incompitent enough to allow me to down all 4 at once. I did the strategy that secures me a win the easiest and they fell right into it. Why shouldn't I be rewarded? They had every chance to avoid being slugged and they missed it. I won fair and square. Slugging isnt toxic. Any decent player will tell you this. Its a viable strategy but you don't get rewarded for it. Its the same as securing an early kill. People say its toxic to proxy someone with 20 seconds left on their hook, but why shouldn't I? I'm not face camping. I haven't stood around them for 2 minutes. They have 20 seconds on the hook and if they die, the team is much worse off. My best move will be to stay around the hook to ensure that they die early. I do this so I can win but I get called toxic after the game? No. It is my job as the killer to kill the survivors. Slugging and proxying the last 20 seconds is not toxic. Proxying for 2 minutes is toxic as that is wasting your time to ruin the game for someone, but 20 seconds makes people mad still?

    Anyways, rant over. Slugging isn't toxic, its just another thing that a lot of survivors don't know how to counter. But know, it is very counterable. Just dont be a typical survivor who expects the killer to be a 5th survivor and make the game as long as possible and let everyone out. Killers try to win too. Its a competitive game.

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