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Should Momento Moris be Nerfed or Removed?

Hi everyone!

Hope you're all staying safe and healthy during this time.

Other people I play this game with, as well as myself, feel like the Mori is too overpowered. It severely cuts the game time and, as aesthetically pleasing as it is, there is no equivalent for the survivor to get around it. Also, there is no repercussion for the killer using it. "Getting good," just isn't enough, as the game seems to already lean in favor of the killer. I feel it is an unfair game mechanic and causes the game to lean even more heavily in the killer's favor, especially when the killer can Mori every single Survivor in the match (provided conditions are met with perks, add-ons, and Offerings that are attained). I specifically recall a time where The Shape walked up to me and killed my Survivor on the spot. Perfectly healthy, not even in the Dying State.

One or even two survivors would be acceptable but all four I feel is too much. I think either a heavy limit on it or removal all together would be fair options- or even a Perk/Add-On/Offering for Survivors that allows them to avoid it.

Thoughts?

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Answers

  • GodotGodot Member Posts: 806

    Killers need an Ultra Rare offering to burn, so I'd say nerf it instead, even though I would be voting for it to be removed instead.

    If removed, I would at least keep a Cypress Memento Mori, and also not make it secret.

    Oh yeah, did I mention it's pointless to make the Mori offering secret? Lol.

    Nobody uses Shroud of Separation, which is the other secret offering for Killer, so if anyone picks an offering, and it's hidden, then it's 99.9% a Mori.

    If I had to pick nerf though, I'd maybe make it so that Moris can only happen after the second unhook and not the first one? Or maybe make it so that people are killable once all generators have been repaired. One of those two.

  • thesuicidefoxthesuicidefox Member Posts: 8,227
    edited April 2020

    This. Although I would just stipulate that you can only mori a survivor that is on death hook, because if they struggle to phase 2 then you can't mori them if 2 hooks was the stipulation. I'd also make the current Cypress Mori basekit and change Cypress Mori offering to allow the killer to mori a survivor during EGC regardless of whether that survivor has been hooked.

    However, I think they need to change both mori's and keys at the same time because they are both dumb. Keys I would add a 10 second channel animation to open the hatch and using a key would trigger EGC. I would buff Broken Key to allow you to open the hatch ONLY IF you are the last survivor. Dull Key would only open the hatch for the guy with the key and close behind them. And Skeleton Key would only open the hatch for the guy with the key but faster (maybe 8 seconds), unless the key was used after the Exit Gates were powered in which case it would stay open until the killer closes it (for the 'Where'd They Go' achievement).

  • hex_genrushhex_genrush Member Posts: 736

    I’d be down for a rework when keys are nerfed but until then no.

  • JasterJaster Member Posts: 5

    Do you think that this would give the killer even more of an advantage at all?

  • GodotGodot Member Posts: 806

    I'm down to make Cypress base kit.

    But in exchange, make Kindred base kit for Survivors too.

  • thesuicidefoxthesuicidefox Member Posts: 8,227

    The problem with mori at first was that killers could just instantly kill you without a hook. It was changed to require a hook, so killers just shifted tactics and started to tunnel the survivor off the hook to mori. If the survivor had to be on death hook, that would basically mean the killer has to hook them twice. At this point any killer whose goal is to kill you as fast as possible is throwing the game to do it because they have to tunnel you twice basically, or camp you to stage 2 and tunnel you.

    I think mori's are a fun way to kill a survivor but they shouldn't be able to subvert the core mechanics as much as they do. Same for keys, the major problem with keys is it lets a group of survivor escape sooner than they would normally. If it was just the guy with the key now it's just one guy gets that early escape, and the others are still locked in the trial and can potentially die. The only reason I would allow Skeleton Keys to keep the hatch open once gates are powered is because if you let 4 survivors get to this point, you basically lost already as killer. And it would encourage them to want to still finish gens even if someone is dead with 1 gen left so they can get everyone out through the hatch. Plus you need to allow some way to get the achievement.

  • thesuicidefoxthesuicidefox Member Posts: 8,227

    No Kindred is way too strong to be made basekit. Cypress should be basekit because if you catch the last survivor there is a 99.9999% chance they are dead anyway. Might as well let the killer mori them because it doesn't matter at that point.

  • crixus006crixus006 Member Posts: 379

    SHOULD MOMENTO keys BE NERFED OR REMOVED?


  • Star99erStar99er Member Posts: 1,239

    Moris are fine for the most part. I just think they need to adjust how often they appear in the bloodweb. Eboni Moris especially. I swear I get more Ebony Moris than Ivory moris on all my killers.

  • SurviveByDaylightSurviveByDaylight Member Posts: 720

    Yes they definitely should, particularly the ebony ones. My thinking is everyone should be hooked once before they get used. Now whether or not you can compare them to the power of a key, well you can’t. Keys require all survivors to still repair all gens before the hatch even spawns unless someone has died then you get it down to 1 gen left. Thing is, keys are still necessary at that point because I don’t believe killers have that hard of a time patrolling gens because of how fast they are naturally with their walking speed and the high mobility ones especially are kind of too much when you’re trying to get that last gen done. You’re bound to go down at some point so why do people think ebony Mori’s Are fair? You’re essentially cheating on your objectives. 12 hooks reduces down to 4 hooks with An ebony Mori. A key still requires survivors to do all of their work though? How is that comparable?

  • JasterJaster Member Posts: 5

    I like how you think and your logic, but the hatch doesn't appear until a given amount of generators are done. If the Killer has Detection Perks on, such as Gearhead or Barbecue & Chili, this easily counteracts this, no?

  • SurviveByDaylightSurviveByDaylight Member Posts: 720

    I don’t think a key is cheating particularly because it gets to a point where it’s unfair for survivors to do that last gen. It’s Simply not doable . They need the key to give them an alternate way of escaping. But if you think about it, survival games have always had multiple ways of escaping. So there’s nothing wrong with having a key. Killers got it easier in this game than they do in most other games in my opinion.

  • SurviveByDaylightSurviveByDaylight Member Posts: 720

    i think killers have too much in terms of one hit down abilities (exposed, iridescent head hatchets/infantry belt, etc) that I think they don’t deserve a Mori. It’s just excessive.

  • SurviveByDaylightSurviveByDaylight Member Posts: 720

    You’re absolutely right, 30s and up the ebonys were in almost every other levels blood web

  • thesuicidefoxthesuicidefox Member Posts: 8,227

    No because survivors can still leave the game early. If a key is in play you have to be VERY careful of where and when you kill a survivor. If you kill someone and there's 1 gen left, the other 3 get to escape and you can't do much about it because you can't stop a key, and in most cases you can't search the whole map for the hatch because then they can finish gens. It's lose lose. Even Franklin's doesn't actually stop it unless you happen to be chasing the guy with the key as they run to hatch. The only way to counter a key is to kill the guy with a key and hope they used a WW/WR because then the key won't drop for the other survivors to use.

  • thesuicidefoxthesuicidefox Member Posts: 8,227

    99% of the time, if you are in a 3 gen as survivors it's your own fault. It's very easy to avoid if you pay attention to what gens are being done. In fact all you really have to do is just rush the gens in the middle of the map. If you split the map you basically won as survivor.

  • Dr_TrautsDr_Trauts Member Posts: 704

    Neither, they are perfectly fine.

  • SurviveByDaylightSurviveByDaylight Member Posts: 720

    Yeah but I think particularly because that can happen is why there should be more ways to escape. This is why I think the key is a mechanic that can’t be compared to a Mori. Mori’s are just blatantly cheating at your objectives. Whereas a key is offering an alternate way of escaping. A lot of The maps aren’t even that big and killers have too high mobility making 3 gen a realistic possibility a lot of the time. It’s not fair to ever leave someone without a chance because gen speed isn’t fast enough to get one done before the killer comes back. I honestly don’t think the maps are that big and the hiding consists of jagged rocks, skinny trees and knee high crates. Rigged in killers favor.

  • MarcusMarcus Member Posts: 2,047

    Just make it so you can only use Moris after you hook all 4 survivors once and that should make them balanced.

  • SurviveByDaylightSurviveByDaylight Member Posts: 720

    I do like the new map though @ dead dawgs saloon the bushes are nice!

  • SurviveByDaylightSurviveByDaylight Member Posts: 720

    But yeah basically what I’m saying is that Mori’s aren’t really necessary. I’ve seen plenty of high rank killers/ good killers get 4Ks with ease. Particularly high mobility killers/ones that can cut chases short. It’s kind of unfair to give them Mori’s too as the game is based on killer - survivor interactions. And I think Mori’s take away from that ruining the game :)

  • sulaimansulaiman Member Posts: 2,521

    Just out of curiosity, what killers do you play, and how often?

  • thesuicidefoxthesuicidefox Member Posts: 8,227

    They are 100% comparable. Both let you subvert the mechanics of the game.

    Again if you find yourself in a 3 gen situation with little to no chance of finishing the last gen that's your fault as survivor.

    Not to mention hatch is still an option, just some more survivors have to die before it becomes an option.

    I have 3k hours, I play both sides but mostly survivor in a SWF. Keys are indeed unfair, just as mori's.

  • FreudentraumaFreudentrauma Member Posts: 1,050

    Neither. I think the Moris need rather an interesting rework than a nerf. And to be honest it's something I suggest quite often. My Idea is that Moris should really be able to change the rules of the game. Make it so, that the Ebony Mori gives a killer a token based progression, which replaces the two survivor hook phases. Each hook and each survivor hook phase on hook, gives the killer one token. After Token X he can kill his first, Y the second and after Z all survivors with their own hands. That would be an interesting and funny rework of the memento mori.

    I mean, if we think about it. Killer offerings are actually quite good to introduce something, which mixes things up, without making it happen too often or with a natural limit in mind...

  • thesuicidefoxthesuicidefox Member Posts: 8,227

    The only problem with this is DC's. Unless they make DC's count as a hook, you can get screwed out of your offering. Alternatively, as survivors you can just have 1 player hide all game to avoid the mori. It makes more sense to just have the requirement be that the survivor is on death hook for you to mori, since there is no way you can cheese that.

  • GrannyonAcidGrannyonAcid Member Posts: 476

    Think I only see a mori maybe once in every 50 games. I don't lose sleep over it. I just move on to another game.

  • MigrantTheGreatMigrantTheGreat Member Posts: 1,295

    They've already been nerfed

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