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Comment on something that should be changed and can't be argued against ie is 100% valid and healthy

Maelstrom10Maelstrom10 Member Posts: 1,921

Beware, another text heavy post from yours truly.

Ie something that if changed, is 100% vaild. That no one can absolutely argue against, without having well, logic thrown there way. I want to open up pro dev discussion, in a way to show the devs exactly why we want things changed other then "well this is bollocks remove it or i will boycott you". Now obviously there is always going to be a counter arguement, and things can't be 100% full proof, but im more meaning for you to describe why you dislike something about the game, why it should be changed, and possibly (but not needed) how you would change it.

As a good example : God (tier) loops are inherently bad and should be removed or altered to be fair for both sides, devs doing so through breakable walls on things such as the ironworks of misery, is a net positive change for game health.

The reason that god loops are bad for the game, is that they make the survivor using them inherently invincible, or in the above mentioned iron works of misery, force the killer to chase the survivor for such a long period of time (with no avalible shortcut excluding certain killers and perks) that it becomes near worthless to chase them as you would outright likely lose the game. These loops break the game in such a fashion that it removes the difficulty from the match and places the killer in a situation where there forced to seek out another player to hunt else be looped for and lose the game. it also removes the strategy and "mindgames" that newer and traditional loops provide for the killer/survivor allowing them to be extended/shortened through the use of skill and chance. Adding breakable walls/altering these loops increases game health by expanding the skill cap and decreasing mindless play.

A poor example is : Keys are inherently bad and should be removed. Or moris are inherently bad and should be removed. (ie the arguement is not giving any reasoning, nor any actual feedback on why such a thing should happen.)

to rework said poor example : Keys were designed for use during a period in which the endgame collapse wasn't an avalible option with the hatch being closed. with said feature now being in the game i feel they are too powerful and should be adjusted. Or for the second poor example, Despite being reworked from their initial state (being able to be used upon your first down) Mori's are still inherently too powerful an offering as evidenced by perks which grant you the same ability to mori someone requiring a lot of work or special conditions to be applied. The ability to simply mori after first hook is too powerful for a simple 7000 bp spend, and should be adjusted to allow for mori's and there cool animations, but in fairness towards the other side whilst still leaning towards the killer. This is because knocking a single player out of the game after a single down, allows for huge pressure, and swings the game from a 4v1 to a 3v1 to a 2v1 far faster then the game intends for you to progress and makes it much harder for survivors to play.

An example of what i would personally change? : Add a survival bloodpoint event for being healed by other players. This incentivises healing (Wasting survivors time in favour of the killer) whilst also just plain rewarding those who do heal with some bloodpoints. It also brings it in line with selfcaring which already rewards players with survival bloodpoints. this is overall healthy for the game as it increases the amount of bloodpoints survivor players can earn (a precious commodity) and allows more opportunites to do so whilst not unfairly boosting it above the killer. it makes sense, and encourages spending more time healing then injured, which balances the game as to promote not doing the objective, which is seen as going to fast much of the time from the killers perspective.


TLDR: Add your personal changes/gripes to the game with reasoning as to why. Try and find flaws in other peoples arguements and give your own logic as to why said things should or should not be changed. These things don't have to include the actual changes, more so bringing up why something should be changed, and how it effects the game now.

Comments

  • FibijeanFibijean Member Posts: 8,343

    For me, there isn't anything like that in the game. I can think of a bunch of things that I personally think the game would be better off without, but none of them are objectively, irredeemably bad. The struggle mechanic, for example, I think ought not to exist, and in my opinion that hook phase should be automated. However, there is a valid counter-argument to be made that the struggle mechanic assists with immersion by keeping the player engaged with their character's physical struggle (although in this particular case, I personally feel that the negatives far outweigh the positives). There have been a couple of features in the past that I looked at and thought, "I have no clue what the devs were thinking there", but those things either turned out to be bugs or never went live.

  • RaptorrotasRaptorrotas Member Posts: 2,593

    It wouldnt break the game's balance if all killer abilities were to be buffed onto HB's niveau. The forum always talks about the solo-swf gap, but not the killer tier gaps.

  • Maelstrom10Maelstrom10 Member Posts: 1,921

    This is perfect, I too am of the belief that the struggle mechanic should be adjusted. Idk if it should be automated or not, but i've accidentally died due to so many system mishaps during struggles, or just times it didn't believe I was actually struggling. More fustrating then it's worth and I actually broke the spacebar on my old keyboard because of it imo. Good discussion to have!.

    I mean the survivor is holding the entity tentacle/claw so it makes sense! Sort of.

    Ngl I agree with you. I assume you mean hill billy? I agree, but I also believe hill billy needs some adjustment In the add-on department. Make all of his add-ons useful, and make the charge combo still possible if not better, but have some kind of downside that actually will effect good billy players for balance. Hillbilly level is a good representation of what all killers should be.

    100%! Hell I'd love to have simple survivor voicelines or a "tag wheel" which gives you simple actions to say/do in order for better communication between teammates. Also a chase indicator for all survivors besides just the obsession would be very nice.

  • csandman1977csandman1977 Member Posts: 2,281

    As a solo player i think there should be some UI improvements to help game knowledge, and level the swf vs solo gap.

    1) As said before, a chase indicator would be amazing. That knowledge i feel is one of the biggest strengths of the swf squad. And also for killer if there are multiple survivors running similar outfits, you can tell who your chasing.

    2) An ability to convey to other survivors who the killer is. Maybe something like, if you've been in the terror radius of a killer and then come across another survivor, you can press a button to say the name of the current killer.

    3) Totem counter as i do totems when i see them and i think if a survivor comes across a totem and a counter says 1, they arent going to leave that totem be. Then there would be zero reason to still fill the forums with nerf NOED threads

    4) Killers camera shouldn't be locked into looking at their feet while vaulting or breaking things. Survivors can look behind them and still vault. I'm not saying killers should have 360 degree camera movement but 90 degrees would be nice. Also locking animation for picking up survivors should stay to allow flashlight non sense

    5) Some hex perks shouldn't be known until requirement are met. Devour hope springs up after 3rd token. Why does huntress lullaby give warning before first hook? It's inconsistent.

    6) I think there are many add ons and items that are downright useless. I don't know numbers, but I'm sure there are things that are used in less than 1% of games across all platforms and ranks. Just remove them. Or change them. I vote for removal as those wasted bloodpoints on items no one uses adds redundant grind for zero reason.

    7) I think there should be environmental hazards added to the map. Terrain that slows both killer and survivor. Triggered actions that change the map a little. Switches that both roles can use to open doors or close windows.

    8) An anti camping perk that activates once a game on 2nd hook that teleports the survivor to a random locker that another survivor has to open.

  • DetailedDetrimentDetailedDetriment Member Posts: 2,632

    Trees.

  • hex_genrushhex_genrush Member Posts: 736

    Secondary objectives

  • FrenziedRoachFrenziedRoach Member Posts: 2,598

    i've said it once and I'll say it again - the original keys and Mori's were more expensive and appeared in a much different bloodweb which took considerably longer to get through. Frequency of both was only 1 per level and we had more than twice the nodes to go through.

    I feel like the frequency of both is too common in this new ecosystem. I don't have a problem with them existing, just how many of them there are. Unfortunately, it feels like the cat is already out of the bag and now the game is flooded with them, so we're left with finding ways to curb them. For example, requiring the Ebony Mori to get a certain number of hooks before it activates.

  • TheButcherTheButcher Member Posts: 871

    Survivors already being too strong, and having so many tools that let them ignore their mistakes. Making them feel invicinible, and ruining the atmosphere of the game to the point where I don't even see why it's under "horror" genre anymore. SWF makes it even worse, turning the Killer role into a job we should be getting paid real money to play, instead of paying BHVR to play it. Closing the gap between Solo and SWF play will let BHVR update the game with changes that makes Killer a more relaxing and fun experience. Closing the gap will allow BHVR to look at the game more than just a looping simulator, and possibly bring back the horror aspects to the game - so it's fun for everyone. Which is why you need:

    Voice Chat is required in the game to close the gap between Solo and SWF. Any changes they make to perks, items, add-ons - etc in an attempt to close that gap, not only is a waste of time because it takes up a utility spot that SWF can ignore, but it's also pointless because when used by SWF it becomes even stronger - making SWF even easier to play.

    I understand the common complaints: No one will use it, You don't want to hear some ego head yelling in your ear all match, language barriers, "kills the atmosphere" but all of those are not going to be as big of a problem as people express them to be. Also;

    1. If people don't use it, then that's their own choice not to use tools given to them. The game will still be balanced with SWF in mind - making the game better for everyone, including Killers experience.
    2. Muting people will be an option.
    3. People of the same language will only be connecting to the same servers anyways, and if it was even a problem after that language based dedicated servers can be used. More and better servers is something BHVR should be putting their money to into anyways, so i'm surprised this is their own biggest complaint when people tell them they need Voice Chat.
    4. Because people don't talk in Horror movies, especially slashers? Because running in circles around a brightly colored red and blue pallet is deffiently not hurting the "atmophere"? Having visual and sound notifications to absolutely everything a Killer does - except stealth Killers doesn't ruin the "atmosphere"? The games already not a horror game, and now it's also 0 fun for the Killer to play because they won't balance against SWF is apart of the problem. People have suggested proximity chat, and even though it still wouldn't be as strong as SWF on comm's it's a more "atmospheric" option for a tool that needs to be implemented.

    Something that already can't be argued against, which was already shown in previous threads. Enjoy.

  • Maelstrom10Maelstrom10 Member Posts: 1,921

    All great points though i vote for reworking rather then disabling things. Make things genuinely useful rather then just a void of nothing diverse.

    yes

    Could you elaborate? with the current state of the game and way its moving i don't feel secondary objectives to lengthen generator times or waste the killers time are neccessary but i am 1000000% percent down for additional things to interact with and do in the game. things like more totems, and totem like objects or allowing the killer to break chests to be granted addons at the end of the match are things i see as very good ideas.

    i'm all for adding voice chat, but i do feel it would make a ton of survivor perks redundant which is why i feel they haven't gone for it. i mean how many people would use bond, empathy, self care (haha not that its thaaat useful anyways), or other survivor revealing aura perks when you can just tell people where you are and who the killer is/where they are?

  • XzanXzan Member Posts: 908
    1. I can get behind this. Even though if the obsession is getting chased, the tentacles move, so you have the information avaiable at least for them.
    2. Not needed. I like the part where I have to guess, which killer it is. And most of the time you can hear who the killer is. Or check the map for traps etc.
    3. Put the totem counter into Small Game and we're gucci.
    4. Wouldn't break that some mindgames at windows?
    5. Huntress lullaby already has an effect, even with 0 tokens. More regress if the surv fails a skill check. That's the reason, why you get the notification.
    6. Agree.
    7. Wonderful idea.
    8. Camping sucks, but there a some scenarios where it is totally legit. So no.
  • csandman1977csandman1977 Member Posts: 2,281

    1) I love playing survivor and seeing the obsession is being chased. Eases up the tension a bit. Having an indicator for all survivors just bridges the solo swf gap some.

    2) I agree but again, narrowing that gap

    3) I'm plenty ok with that

    4) Possibly, I don't know. I'm a lousy survivor lol. Just think it's silly to not be able to look around while kicking something.

    5) Who fails skill checks on generators? Besides new players who won't know why the cursed icon is there anyway? I say remove the regression penalty to solve the early notification penalty.

  • yandere_gameryandere_gamer Member Posts: 18

    I think the gate phase(specifically the phase when all generators are done but the gate is not open) could use a rework of some kind. As killer, trying to guard gates that are far away from each other is very difficult, and even if they are not far away 2 or more survivors that know how to loop the killer can open the gates without much issue. Survivors are able to get a significant portion of the gate open between the killer's rotations of the gates, and when they notice you coming they can abandon the gate and the progress is saved with no way the killer can inhibit this(other than running remember me just to add more time to open the gate). They can stay at the gate, but in doing so the other gate could be opened without survivors being at risk. I think that if they added a decay rate to the progress of gates of 5%(20 * .05 = 1 second base, 36 * .05 = 1.8 with 4 stacks of remember me) after x amount of time passed could help this. Yes while this is the end game phase of the game, the killer might still need more hooks. Often times people run noed or get a down and camp the hook simply because it can be very difficult to get a good amount of momentum going to stop the gates.

  • AWildLukeAWildLuke Member Posts: 22

    I think all the offerings that modify gameplay should just not exist. I don't think it's healthy for the game for people to throw a offering and bend the entire match gameplay. It should be RNG. This would open more space for fair balance. This means: no more map, moris, shrouds, hooks and mist offerings. Offerings should be only to multiply bloodpoints. Chests offerings should also be gone, and 4 chests (1 for each survivor) should spawn by base on the trial (this opens more space for scavenging and giving survivors another objective).

    On that note, the envelopes and the shell offerings should change rarities. My proposal is:

    • Sealed Envelope: from Uncommon to Commom. Grants 25% bonus BP for all categories to the survivor who burned it.
    • Bound Envelope: from Rare to Uncommon. Grants 25% bonus BP for all categories to all survivors in the trial.
    • Hollow Shell: from Uncommon to Common. Grants 25% bonus BP for the killer in all categories.
  • Reborn2020Reborn2020 Member Posts: 1,138

    Killers that know how to play will always get 3-4 kills if secondary objectives added. When you going to accept that 4 kills is not a standart?

  • MegaWaffleMegaWaffle Member Posts: 4,172

    There is only 1 thing that needs to be changed and everyone can accept as a universal truth....the player base toxicity towards one another.

  • TAGTAG Member Posts: 12,613

    However, there is a valid counter-argument to be made that the struggle mechanic assists with immersion by keeping the player engaged with their character's physical struggle (although in this particular case, I personally feel that the negatives far outweigh the positives).

    I think the near universal consensus toward button mashing not being immersive would make that counterargument not valid. :P

  • ClickyClickyClickyClicky Member Posts: 3,536

    Blendettes blending ability. It gives her an advantage over other survivors making then easier targets.

  • FibijeanFibijean Member Posts: 8,343

    It's more intense than just sitting there watching your character die. It may not be the most immersive solution, but I do think it succeeds to some extent in what it sets out to do.

  • thesuicidefoxthesuicidefox Member Posts: 8,227
    edited April 2020

    Bikini outfits for Spirit, Plague, Kate, Jane, Yui, Zarina, and Myers EVERYONE are 100% necessary and you can't argue against it.

  • RivynRivyn Member Posts: 2,969

    Yamaoka is a badly designed map for both sides and requires a rework, while the Sanctum of Wrath variant is too dark and should be brightened.

  • BattleCastBattleCast Member Posts: 698
    edited April 2020

    1) BPS offerings buffed. The BP grind is too much, and buffing the offerings would be a start to fixing the horrible grind.

    Brown - 100% bonus bps in a specific category

    Yellow - 200% bonus bps in a specific category

    Green - 300% bonus bps in a specific category

    2) Remove Spirit Change Spirit.

    3) Buff weaker perks (variety would be nice for a change)

    4) Keys and Mori's changed to be fair in some way.

    5) Buff weaker perks.

    6) More Killer reworks (Clown and Legion mostly)

    7) Buff weaker perks.

    8) Add-on Reworks for Pig, GF, Clown, Demo, Hillbilly, Freddy, Deathslinger. (add-ons need to ADD ON to a power, and not just buff them)

    9) Buff weaker perks.

  • GreyBigfootGreyBigfoot Member Posts: 713

    Pressing a button repeatedly during the struggle phase. Occasionally you die sooner than you expected because you miss a beat or get sudden lag or something.


    Also, sometimes someone in my family will make a comment about how I'm pressing the spacebar a lot. 😅

  • yobudddyobuddd Member Posts: 2,172

    The current 1.5x bloodpoints should become base earnings. The current rate of leveling characters feels much more natural and less grindy, without being too easy either. You still hafta work for it, but now it feels that the rewards match the effort.

  • TAGTAG Member Posts: 12,613

    It's really not. Never once have I felt anything resembling an "intense" feeling from the struggle phase. If anything, I feel "tedium", which is the opposite.

  • FibijeanFibijean Member Posts: 8,343

    Perhaps it doesn't work for everyone 🤷‍♀️ I never said it was exciting, just more exciting than just sitting there. If that's not the case for you, that's fair, but I think it probably is for a lot of people, as much as we might despise the mechanic itself.

  • TAGTAG Member Posts: 12,613

    I'd want to find someone who genuinely believes "button mashing adds a non-negligible amount of excitement to the struggle phase" for me to believe that might possibly be the case for a lot of people.

  • BigTimeGamerBigTimeGamer Member Posts: 1,752
    edited April 2020

    I can deal with god loops and such as killer, annoying but whatever

    What i cant stand is the garbage fire that they call servers

    most recent example, I main huntresss and this is really getting old:

    inb4: "just dont drop the pallet vs an already bloodlusted huntress 4head" or "just dodge better LOOOOL"

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