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@Fibijean how to fix tunneling/camping

ZoneDymoZoneDymo Member Posts: 1,946

There is no need to defend anything to the death.

Merely tell me what these "easily to come up with" ideas are to fix camping and tunneling.


We know the devs tried things regarding camping which were easily abused in some way and thus not put into the game at all and just left the way it is.

We also know the devs more recently tried to fix the Huntress "beachball" hatchets, failed completely and just reverted it back to its previous self admittent broken state and left it ever since, meaning they are not beyond leaving broken stuff in the games because they dont have what it takes to fix it.

This is not to insult, this is an objective observation.

We also know the devs more recently then that, added some point/emblem penality towards sticking around the hook for too long as a killer, now the only reason for that could be to hopefully dissuade killers from camping.


So yeah with that knowledge AND the wildly different interpretations an individual can have regarding "winning" in this game, let me know what the devs could do to stop camping/tunneling.

Reply when you have time, work on your assignment first obviously.

Comments

  • Angelicus23Angelicus23 Member Posts: 1,856

    ok but why making a new discussion in the general discussions instead of answering them on their profile comments.... or directly from the thread you screenshoted....

  • ZoneDymoZoneDymo Member Posts: 1,946
  • evilwithinIIIevilwithinIII Member Posts: 153

    It is in general very hard to come up with a mechanic to counter tunneling and camping and also not to make survivors to be able to abuse it. Like for example DS is supposed to counter tunneling but some survivors can still abuse the perk.


    I think making kindred base kit for survivors is a great step at reducing the power of camping.

  • MadLordJackMadLordJack Member Posts: 3,442

    First, what's this about 'beachball hatchets'? Genuinely curious. If it's about Huntress's regular old hatchet hitbox, please do remember that it's as much a negative as a positive. Imagine how OP she would be with Plagues missile hitbox, or (I don't really want to think about this) Deathslingers. Huntress>Nurse in anyone's hands if that was the case.

    Second, you cannot just add a punishment system for camping and tunelling without adding a reward system for juggling. As it stands ( and I don't know if this is a glitch) I get massive negative emblem for 'camping' hooks as I chase a moron around their teammate. I get constantly DS'd for 'tunneling' as I rip survivors off of gens they worked on in my face or out of lockers they leapt into as I came up to them 6 miles away from the hook after chasing, downing, and hooking their buddy. If I get punished for shite I'm not actually doing, there'd better be a way for me to go out of my way to completely avoid survivors on hooks/1 minute after a hook and get rewarded for it. Even if it's just a BP multiplier that doesn't effect the actual game. Maybe survivors could get the opposite as well, every hook they get in a row doubles their endgame points (3 hooks/unrescued hook states = 4×BP).

  • twistedmonkeytwistedmonkey Member, Trusted Posts: 4,049
    edited April 23

    It’s not simply about punishing camping or tunneling as there are legit circumstances where they have said it’s a viable and well a strat that can and should be used. Some of the devs when streaming even do it themselves. Mcote for one used to patrol camp a lot.

    DS while not perfect right now is a start as a good way to reduce tunneling as killers have to think and make a choice. Another way could be to reduce blood points or even remove BBQ stacks or POP doesn’t activate if the same survivor is hooked again before another. Its more about it being beneficial to not do this rather than it be the best strat.

    I believe this is why they try to entice players from doing it rather than out right punish for it as there are a lot of variables to consider if they did outright punish for it.

    For one more info would be needed say if a survivor was close to the hook as you cant punish if they are there since the killer could find and chase them. It’s not the killers fault in that scenario. So how is that scenario itself fixed? It would really mean giving the killer info on when a survivor is close so they are not being punished. This then allows them to stand just outside the punishable area and check now and again for when someone is coming in. The same for survivors as they could gang up and just stand outside it and bait the killer especially at end game like they can already do now and the killer gets punished .

    While camping isn’t something that should be encouraged flat out it does have a place in the game at certain times. This is why it’s always better to give killers a reason to leave which is beneficial rather than punish for it. Perks like BBQ, POP etc all work in such a way that they make killers want to leave the hook.

    Nothing will stop some camping or tunneling as the mindset of the player is what dictates the strats. Some just want to kill and don’t care about pips or points.

  • Angelicus23Angelicus23 Member Posts: 1,856

    my point is that I don't think is really important to make this little issue between you 2 public and you can have it privatedly, and I don't think they really wanted you to tag them in a new discussion, but I guess you already knew that and still acted like a kid. They literally told you they weren't interested on keep answering and you just had to be anoying for them. (talking in third person because idk fibijean's gender)

  • twistedmonkeytwistedmonkey Member, Trusted Posts: 4,049

    I can answer part A

    They did test the hook not regressing when a killer was near on a ptb a long time ago maybe late 2016. It was abused by survivors running around the hook so the hooked survivor wouldn’t die. This is when I believe they decided that punishing for something which can be taken out the killers hands wasn’t a great idea and decided to then entice killers away from that play style instead.

  • indieeden7indieeden7 Member Posts: 1,566

    Gotta be real, making a whole other thread about this seems quite petty to say the least

  • FibijeanFibijean Member Posts: 8,332
    edited April 23

    I suspected it might have been something like that, since that is the obvious problem with that kind of change. Of course, back in 2016, everything was uncharted territory and no one really knew what they were doing - I get the impression that the devs didn't realise most of the strategies players use now even existed until the players worked them out (looping, for example). So experiments like that make sense, especially since that was before most of the anti-camping and anti-tunnelling mechanisms which now exist were introduced to encourage alternative tactics.

    It seems much more likely to me, though, that the reason they're still in the game is because the devs decided that encouraging alternative tactics was an all-around better solution, rather than because they tried one idea that didn't work out back in 2016 and then went "well, guess it's impossible, I suppose we'll just have to accept that".

  • NoShinyPonyNoShinyPony Member Posts: 4,570

    Not sure whether you are joking, but you are not wrong. Survivors would have to respawn somewhere else on the map after getting hooked. Or after getting downed, and hooks just got removed from the game. Basically, it wouldn't be DbD anymore.

    The other option would be to inflict a really severe punishment point-wise, so that a significant number of killers would stop doing it. The drawback: If that would happen, a lot of killers would stop playing the game completely, and then we would be looking at 30+ minutes queue times for survs.

  • KingFrostKingFrost Member Posts: 1,641

    I think the way to fix camping is this:

    -If a Survivor is on the hook, gen speeds are increased 25%

    -When the killer is in chase, gen speeds are decreased 25%

    Having multiple survivors hooked does NOT increase the speed time past the initial 25%.

    When a survivor is on the hook, the killer needs to go find another chase to put gen speeds back to normal. When there are no survivors hooked, while the killer is chasing someone, gens get done a little less fast as a trade-off. There might be a few issues with the numbers, but I think something along those lines would help ease camping.

  • emptyCupsemptyCups Member Posts: 1,256
    edited April 23

    here's how you fix tunneling

    Make a message open when entering the game

    "Killers are suppose to chase you until you die lol get over it" -devs


    Seriously the only way to play a asymmetrical game as the single is to eliminate the team systematically kill off to break teamwork. You can't be in 4 places at once.


    On the camping note, if a killer can't reasonably find chase and down someone quicker then waiting for a 60 second hook state its better to wait out the hook state then to chance the escape players need to stop acting entitled to 3 lives.

  • ZoneDymoZoneDymo Member Posts: 1,946
    edited April 23

    Are you kidding me? they implied I was wrong in mystatements, claimed the devs could easily fix it but just didnt but Im a kid for wanting to know more about this easy fix and following up exactly the instructions I suggested and they agreed with?

    Nice logic there...


    Just that, yeah the hitbox of the hatchets was showing on the devstream to being as if the Hatchet rotates around every axes, making it an orb shape, this hitbox would however not hit edges of objects like that but will hit survivors who stand right around an edge.

    They themselves showed how it should be, this rectangle box around the hatchet moving in 1 axes, they tried it and failed completely, it was more broken then ever so they just reverted it and never touched it again, this is one of those reasons I dont trust the devs when the claim they "tried something and it did not work so its not in the game".


    "Nothing will stop some camping or tunneling as the mindset of the player is what dictates the strats. Some just want to kill and don’t care about pips or points."

    Exactly, that is my point, the only way to actually stop it is making it bannable, but for the reasons you mentioned and we all know this is not a viable option, hence it cannot be policed, hence its just now deemed a "valid strat", the devs cannot do anything about it even though its not desired gameplay. The devs fully realize this and should be extremely grateful honestly for those killers that dont deploy these ermm tactics as that would completely kill the game and thus their job.


    I guess you missed the last part of the original post?:

    "Reply when you have time, work on your assignment first obviously."

    I merely made it to have it out there and im not trying to put in a corner or publicaly shame you, you just made an extremely wild claim about what the devs have control over that I find just amazing. Im genuinely curious as to what this possibility is that the devs have to combat one of the most hated things in this game but simply dont because they genuinely believe its a fine way to play their game, instead of my claim that they just cant police it.

    Heck you even used the word "easily" for it when for all intends and purposes as far as I can see it would be an extremely complex thing and seeing how the devs dont even seem to adress the most simple things I would find it just mindblowing, so yeah genuininly interested.

    But now reading your post, your "easily fixing it solutions" are by your own admitance just rediculously gamebreaking, and the only reason you feel its ok to bring up such broken ideas is because you yourself feel camping and tunneling is a fine way to play the game....fantastic logic I must say, but atleast expected, dissapointing but expected.

    Why are you fairly certain the reasons are not ineptitude?

    As for your questions:

    a. cant say exactly where to find it but this was from a while back, something regarding proximity to the hook would indeed stop the timer but then survivors would walk in and out of that radius which was somehow abusing it. you would have to dive a bit deeper.

    b and c. this was literally a dev post and/or dev stream:


    Post edited by Rizzo90 on
  • ad19970ad19970 Member Posts: 3,025

    I honestly doubt nerfing camping in a fair way is that hard. If a killer is within a certain range of a hooked survivor, the Bleed Out Timer stops or at leats slows down. Then there needs to be made additional conditions for this to not be abusable by survivors:

    • the survivor has to be hooked for at least 20 or 30 seconds before the camping punishment kicks in
    • if any survivor is also within the set range of the hooked survivor, the punishment is not applied
    • if the killer is within a chase, the punishment is not applied
    • Once the exit gates are powered or all 4 survivors are hooked, this punishment does not apply anymore

    Pretty sure with those extra conditions this nerf to camping could not be abused. Video games are all about fun, which is why I think camping certainly needs nerfing. It's an awful strategy to go against.

    If people find new ways to abuse this punishment to camping, then the devs would just have to look at how to change the conditions for the camping punishment in order to get rid of that abuse as well. I doubt survivors would find a way to abuse a camping punishment like this for which there would be no solution.

    The one possible problem I see with this is that it would be quite complicated, and many people would maybe not quite understand or even realize the camping punishments.

  • twistedmonkeytwistedmonkey Member, Trusted Posts: 4,049

    Exactly. how would you police and make camping bannable is the bottom line. It's just not possible.

    I think what we have to take away from this is that online games are a forever changing environment. While games can be made with a certain mindset or playstyle by all game devs its the players that tend to evolve strats and shape what the becomes over time.

    All any game dev can do then is look at possible ways to fix any strats deemed undesirable that arise but sadly a lot cannot. This leads to them looking more at ways to entice the players not to use them and give the other side more tools to combat then. This is how BT, unbreakable and many other perks were born but as we know those themselves also create other issues.

  • emptyCupsemptyCups Member Posts: 1,256

    Lololollilo8lol you want 1 hook games do you? 25% is 20 seconds off each gen every time a chase ends ? Your nuts.

    Just spawn with the exit gates powered

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