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In-Lore, Who Would the Most Powerful Killers be, Best to Worst?



  • ektoekto Member Posts: 103

    i feel like it depends on how they actually think and act canonically. like, is the hag's brain as ######### as the rest of her? can she even think to strategize and use her traps? the same things can be said about a lot of the killers; is rin so pissed off that she can't even focus? is the doctor so unhinged that he'd rather play around and "treat" the survivors than actually kill them?

  • RobMeister88RobMeister88 Member Posts: 351
    edited January 2020

    Definitely Myers. He's the only killer who actually has immense physical strength and power without the Entity's influence. Him and Freddy. The rest of the killers have to rely on the Entity's influence otherwise they'd be underwhelming and could be defeated by survivors like David and Ash. What other killers actually have a good record of multiple confirmed kills before being influenced by The Entity? Let me put it this way:

    Trapper: Akin to Myers, but only due to The Entity's influence. Take Evan and Michael out of the fog and put them in a fight and Evan will be snapped like a Twig.

    Wraith: He can sneak up on unsuspecting innocents, but good luck catching Michael off guard. Besides, Wraith is so skinny, Michael could literally snap him in half.

    Hillbilly: Same with Wraith, he'd have to catch Michael off guard in order to land a hit with his chainsaw, and even if he did get Michael with the chainsaw, Michael would stab back and do way more damage.

    Nurse: Too small and fragile. She might land a few hits on Michael but eventually Michael will learn to counter her blinking and probably grab her the next time she blinks towards him and from there it's stabbing time.

    Doctor: Michael is just pure evil, not even evil, he just is. I don't even think evil is a suitable way to describe him. Michael is just Michael, no thoughts cross his mind, he sees someone, he kills, there is nothing to mentally affect Myers.

    Ghostface/Pig/Legion: Myers could literally take them all on at once (yes a 6v1) with his bare hands. No further explanation needed.

    Plague: Michael's immune system is probably as great as his strength, I don't think the vomit will do much except for messing up his overalls. Plague is tall but that's it, she has no natural strength, she completely relies on The Entity.

    Huntress: Same situation with Wraith except she'd give out her own position with her humming. Michael would just dodge the hatchets and grab her by the neck before she even managed to lift up her axe.

    Clown: His best bet is to just bombard Michael with toxins but I doubt they'd effect him much. Clown has a dagger. Michael has been unaffected by bullets. Clown ain't got much to defend himself.

    Spirit: She's a spirit and Michael is human, so Michael is already at a disadvantage however, if the spirit can physically interact with the material world, Michael could easily fight back. Rage is a powerful thing but that can put her at a disadvantage. She'll be rusty in a fight and just swing wildly meanwhile Michael is calm and collected. It'd be a similar situation with Nurse I presume. They get in a few hits before Michael catches on and then he grabs em and stabs and game over.

    Demogorgon: A teenage boy (Steve) almost killed him by catching him off guard and stabbing him with a spiked baseball bat. Michael would do the same except Michael would finish the job.

    Hag: Same with Nurse, too small and fragile. Michael sets off a trap, Hag teleports and lunges, Michael grabs her and stabs her.

    Leatherface: Bubba is very dangerous but clumsy. Michael could easily catch him off guard.

    Oni: This would be a battle for the ages. Michael has immense strength and power, he's probably the strongest man to ever live except for Beowulf, no man could be stronger than him. Oni however matches Michael in height (might even be taller) and his way more muscular and is not human, he is an Oni, a demon. Even when he was primarily known as Kazan (when he was human) he could put up a dangerous fight against Michael. Kazan was a legendary samurai who defeated many other legendary ones. Now in his Oni form he is faster, stronger, and more powerful. As much as a powerhouse Michael is, the only way I'd see him winning against Oni is if he got the element of surprise, which he most likely will get. Either that or use the Oni's rage against him like Spirit. Let him get a few hits in, let him collect enough blood until he goes into demon rage and becomes more clumsy and pick off hits when he misses demon strikes.

    Freddy: This would be Michael's toughest battle however, if Jason could defeat him, then so could Michael.

    As far as the best and worst go:

    Best: Michael

    Worst: Legion or Pig.

  • MikeadatrixMikeadatrix Member Posts: 890

    Decent analysis but you're treating Michael as if he is literally the strongest man that has ever lived, when in reality, we're dealing with Michael from H1, a truly evil 19 year old with supernatural premonition. If we're dealing with H2 Michael, he's stronger by far, if we're dealing with Cult Michael, then yes, he's superhuman. But what we have ingame and from the cosmetics, we have Michael from the first Halloween. Sorry to burst any bubbles but although Michael is one of the strongest killers, he would get stomped by at least half of the cast. He has no power at the end of the day.

  • AAAAAAAAAA Member Posts: 558

    Posted this in a similar thread, here we go...

    If we're talking a killer vs killer free for all, it would depend a lot on terrain. If it was Hillbilly vs Trapper, I think Billy would win in an open arena, being able to utilize his speed, but in something like a realm in game Trapper would be able to use his traps to limit that. Ultimately, I don't have one killer I think would win hands down, but I'll run through the strengths and weaknesses of everyone.

    The Trapper would, as I said above, be most effective in a proper "map", but even in open terrain he wouldn't be a pushover. One of his perks is Brutal Strength, which would be helpful, and his cleaver would give him decent reach. Also, he's one of the more intelligent killers, being raised normally and not going insane.

    I love The Wraith, but he wouldn't be that great in a fight. His power is best for surprise attacks, and he needs add ons to do that effectively (Ghost and pink clapper). None of his perks would be particularly useful, and his weapon isn't very practical. He could easily beat a regular human, but would be overpowered by most other killers. He'd have to outsmart his opponent in a 1 on 1, but in a free for all he could definitely slip away and let everyone else fight it out, then pick off weakened prey.

    The Hillbilly is another strong contender. His hammer and chainsaw are both devastating weapons, and the latter gives him excellent speed, especially in open terrain. Given that one of his perks is Enduring, he'd certainly be hard to kill, and the description for Tinkerer would imply that he's smarter than he seems.

    The Nurse would have the potential to be an excellent hit and run fighter, if it wasn't for the fact that she gets fatigue immediately after she hits someone, and would be helpless during this time. If she was going to blink and hit, she'd need to kill or disable in one hit, which just isn't feasible on killers like The Demigorgon. What the blink would be useful for is making a quick getaway from a dangerous situation. Also, The Nurse has some form of telekinesis, based on her animations for breaking pallets, damaging generators, and hooking survivors. This is likely very short range, but could still throw off some killers, perhaps being able to telekinetically catch hatchets or bottles. But overall I think she'd be a bad fighter.

    The Huntress, on the other hand, would definitely bring some girl power! While she would be a lot more limited if there were no lockers, her hatchets still offer her a unique opportunity to safely deal damage. And if she had add ons to hinder or exhaust her target, she'd be even more of a force to be reckoned with. Her biggest weakness is her mental underdevelopment, so she could easily be outsmarted.

    The Hag would sadly be pretty bad. Her perks delay survivors and punish altruism, but in a fight gens and hooks don't matter. Her weapon, being a part of her body, wouldn't be good for blocking attacks. And surprise attacks can only do so much when many killers could probably throw her around like a rag doll. And the final nail in her coffin is that she seems to be crazed by her hunger for flesh, so she probably couldn't do much planning or strategizing.

    The Doctor is an interesting one since I think every killer would react differently. Huntress and Hag would definitely be thrown off, while The Trapper would probably adapt pretty quickly and The Demogorgon might not be affected at all. His weapon and physical strength are unremarkable among the killers, so his success would come down to his ability to outsmart his opponent and the power of his shocks. When he shocks a survivor, it just maddens them and stops them from vaulting or dropping pallets. But when he moris someone, he easily kills them with his electricity. It seems that his shocks are stronger at closer ranges, which makes sense given how electricity travels. So The Doctor could be... surprisingly... effective at close range.

    The Clown would be a pushover. Once he's out of bottles he's just a fat guy with a knife. He would get killed if he tried to take the time to mix more bottles, so he'd have to capitalize on them and win quickly. But the bottles hinder, not halt, and an intoxicated Myers could absolutely take The Clown.

    The Spirit is another killer that people think would be really strong, and I agree, for a number of reasons: first, she has two perks, Spirit Fury and Rancor, that suggest she has a massive amount of potential power. Second, her sword is nothing to mess around with, assuming it doesn't re-shatter. And finally, I'm not sure she could even be killed. Maybe destroying her head and/or heart would do the trick, but given that she's still kicking with her legs severed, I'm doubtful. In light of all this, her power is at best, a triviality, and at worst a liability if damaging her husk would damage her. However, she is completely blinded by rage, so she's likely one you would have to outsmart.

    If you need to wait out The Clown, you need to do the opposite for The Plague. Her best chance is to infect and then delay and wait until she can finish off a weakened target. But since she herself is likely weakened by disease, the best option against her is likely brute force before she can build up her advantage.

    The Legion is an interesting case. Assuming they don't share a body and are 4 separate people, their best advantage is numbers. Their weakness would be that they're physically frail, just a bunch of kids with knives, really. And they're not seasoned fighters (except maybe Frank) and would be prone to panicking and making mistakes.

    Crossing the bridge between original characters and liscenced ones, Ghostface would be trash in a fight. He relies on stealth, surprise, and picking on the weak, but he'd get ripped apart by The Hillbilly or The Trapper, and even Amanda could probably take him.

    Now that we're getting into the properly licensed characters, I'll just take a moment to say this is going to be based on the game more than their movies (or TV show), although I will take it into account when I can.

    So, Leatherface. He's one you'd definitely need to surprise or trick, otherwise he'll just rev up his saw and thrash around until everything is dead. Fortunately, tricking him wouldn't be too hard, since my understanding is that he ain't the sharpest tool in the shed.

    Myers is an odd case, since in his movies he gets stunned by a bullet about as much as he gets stunned by a pallet in game. Like I said, I'm taking game over film, so Myers isn't invincible. He's tough and strong, but so are most other killers. He's one you wouldn't want to delay fighting, since the more he watches you the stronger he gets. Most killers could take on Teir 1 Myers and do well. Very few could do the same against a Teir 3 Myers.

    Freddy is the other killer who I feel differs significantly from his source material. And before I go any further, this is based on post-rework Freddy. Anyways, you don't have to be asleep to interact with him, which makes him a lot less threatening. He can't dictate when and where the fight happens. Fire Up might imply he'll get stronger as he starts losing, but even then the numbers don't come close to Brutal Strength until Freddy's half dead. And while he's nigh-omnipotent in dreams in his movies, all he can do in The Fog is make snares and pallets. He would be intimidating, but not a major threat.

    The Pig would be in much the same situation as The Legion, but without numbers. Her weapon is very short range, and to get a reverse bear trap on someone they need to already be helpless, so that won't do anything. She could get in one good ambush hit, but after that she's toast.

    The Demogorgon seems to be like The Spirit in that their power wouldn't be particularly useful, but they don't need it to be terrifying. I haven't watched Stranger Things (shameful, I know) but I hear he/she/it is bulletproof, and that alone makes The Demogorgon a threat. Combine that with a terrifying lunge and a wicked bite, and The Demogorgon is a force to be reckoned with.

    Last but not least, our newest killer, The Oni. He has a significant advantage in that he isn't just strong, he's a warrior and a veteran of many battles and duels. Even when not in Oni form, the katana is a very dangerous weapon and he knows how to use it. Also, he actually has armor, and while it might not stop a cleaver or an axe, it would likely hold up well against The Doctor's stick or The Hag's claws. In Oni form, he could probably only be stopped by The Demogorgon, but there's a catch: he needs blood. For most killers this isn't an issue, the only killers that POSSIBLY don't bleed are Nurse, Hag, and maybe Demogorgon if extra-dimensional blood doesn't feed The Oni. But there's another catch here: I don't think blighted killers have blood. The Spirit's blighted skin shows that in the chops in her limbs, it's orange all the way through. No blood. So The Oni could be at a major disadvantage against a blighted killer, especially considering that the blight gave The Trapper, and presumably others, even more strength.

    So there's my battle analysis rant, kudos to you if you read the whole thing

  • BadMrFrostyBadMrFrosty Member Posts: 1,100

    Are we thinking about this question logically without any horror movie tropes tossed in? If so, Freddy by a seriously long mile. In fact, it's not even close. Why? Well, fall asleep, and he can literally alter reality to suit whatever he wants. Sounds pretty OP to me.

  • HuffHuff Member Posts: 1,480

    IDK why so many Plague mentions. She seems just as "normal" as a trapper with the way she attacks. Mostly just spits vomit on people and hits them with a censor.

    I would think Fredster or Spirit would be the strongest, as Spirit is... A spirit. She can disappear and appear constantly and that's huge. Maybe Nurse for a similar reason. But I say Freddy because he can bend reality, and you can't get a lot better than that.

  • ThisGuuy83ThisGuuy83 Member Posts: 1,303

    Freddy. Everyone else you can get away from. Jump in a plane, bye bye. But the second your eyes close, welcome to prime time, #########!

  • Hag.is.DtierHag.is.Dtier Member Posts: 1,398
















  • Cephalon_LebronCephalon_Lebron Member Posts: 60

    1. Nea

    2. Other

  • LexilogoLexilogo Member Posts: 584
    edited April 2020

    For the purposes of this list, I'm going to assume Killers with supernatural powers retain their supernaturally-imbued abilities, but Killers who already had that stuff without Entity interference will just be reverted to their old versions. (eg. Wraith keeps his bell, but Freddy will be treated as cinematic Freddy) Will rank "strength" as Killers fighting each other, not things like "how many people could they kill" ecetera.

    1. Spirit. This might be controversial but Onryo are ludicrously overpowered in Japanese mythology and are close to unstoppable.
    2. Nurse. Maybe this is cheating because she's also clearly some kind of ghost but yeah, she's unbeatable by an average person. She also has telekinetic abilities which is hard for a lot of normal Killers to beat.
    3. Myers. Sure, he's "just a guy with a knife", but, even taking the most grounded portrayal of him (which I would class as the modern Halloween-Halloween 2018 timeline) he shrugs off damn near every injury like it's nothing and is built like a brick shithouse. Even at the age of SIXTY-ONE getting hit by a ######### car is barely enough to knock him out for a couple of minutes before he gets up. (note: yes, our version of Mike is H1 Mike, BUT I think we can take other Halloween movies into account for feats as he barely changes between films) Seriously, Michael has gotta be riding the synchronicity wave or something, because he is NOT normal.
    4. Freddy. Freddy is very hard to rank because, yes, he operates in the dream world and in dreams is capable of warping reality. BUT, Freddy has been beaten plenty of times, and even by average people. If you grab him in the dream world and wake up, he's pulled into the real world, and when that happens, he's just a burn victim with finger-knives and he's not even a particularly strong man. Hypothetically, yes, he can defeat anyone who falls asleep easily, in practice his powers seem a lot more limited. One can argue that Freddy has never actually been truly defeated and always comes back/remains alive, but I'm going to take dragging Freddy into the real world and "killing" him as a defeat even if he technically survives- And as a compromise to account for his powers, I'm going to say that Myers is the only physical Killer that ranks above him. (taking Freddy vs Jason as the example)
    5. Oni. Seriously, this guy was damn near superhuman BEFORE he fused with his armor to become an actual demon.
    6. Doctor. While he might delay a kill for his own personal amusement, I think his Mori pretty clearly establishes that the only reason his control over electricity doesn't kill basically anything he wants is because of the Entity and for his own pleasure. In a fight to the death he could immobilise almost anyone else and obliterate them.
    7. Demogorgon. A supernaturally strong monster that moves quickly, is an absolute hulk, and can kill a human almost instantly with a single bite.
    8. Hag. Might be small and lacking muscle mass but her Mori indicates she has supernatural strength imbued from rage and her primal understanding of magic also gives her an edge. I'm going to assume here, however, that her magic is mostly limited to her teleportation.
    9. Huntress. Yes, she hums all the time, but I think a lot of people here are underestimating just what a flex it is to regularly massacre trained WW1-era soldiers with pretty much nothing but primal instincts and axes. Plus, is also built like a brick shithouse.
    10. Deathslinger. He's physically impaired. He also has a gun.
    11. Hillbilly. IMO his backstory and in-game abilities indicate Billy is much more spry and mobile than Leatherface, so I'll rank him above LF despite being very similar characters.
    12. Leatherface. Big bulky man with chainsaw, not much else to say.
    13. Trapper. An absolute hulking behemoth with a machete, but doesn't have much else going for him.
    14. Wraith. The ability to go invisible is nice and all but this guy's kinda twiggy in his build. Still, points for the supernatural ability and a bulky if impractical weapon.
    15. Ghost Face. A very skilled and experienced Killer, and I don't think his inherent connection to the Entity can just be dismissed as a non-factor, but is pretty much just a guy with a knife at the end of the day.
    16. Legion. Okay, this is ACTUALLY just a guy/girl with a knife. If we argue Legion should be all four working together, that actually kinda changes things, but I'd still only rank them at about 14 above Ghost Face. Being young and fast does help their case but they're all extremely inexperienced killers.
    17. Pig. Amanda Young is essentially just a woman with an Assassin's Creed blade, she's wearing a cumbersome pig mask and cloak, isn't massively experienced in killing even though she's done her fair share, and is a highly emotionally/mentally unstable former drug addict which hardly helps her case in a fight. Traps don't help at all and in fact might be a burden if Amanda tries to kill her opponent with a trap instead of just stabbing them. Unless Amanda gets Batman Prep Time and thus gets to prepare an arena, in which case I might even be prepared to argue her case for #9/#10 as a position, she's almost worse than just a regular person with a knife.
    18. Plague. Okay, hear me out here; Yes, she's gross and icky and has big disease stuff. However, illness is a slow killer. She might get regular pyhrric victories by killing her opponents days/weeks later from serious illness, and she's got a massive frame, but her weapon isn't massively effective (a flail might hurt but won't be great at murdering), her illness has impaired her as well as her opponent, and at the end of the day if she just gets stabbed a bunch in the head she'll die and there's not much she can do. Plus, not a natural born Killer, even though the Trials make for some decent experience.
    19. Clown. While body weight is generally a good thing in fights, I'd argue it's an impairment here. A switchblade is the weakest weapon out of the whole roster and while the Afterpiece Tonic might help disorient his opponent, Clown probably wouldn't be able to capitalise on it very well. Clown always killed people by drugging them so they couldn't fight back despite being very experienced in the process of actually doing it. At BEST, maybe he could use the Afterpiece Tonic then try to pin someone down with his weight and stab them, but I don't think that would work very well on the other people on this list. Plus, he clearly doesn't take his work very seriously and is pretty lazy/lax about life, unlike many of the other super hardcore Killers here.
  • rj1567rj1567 Member Posts: 50

    Don't know why people think Hag, Doctor, Nurse or Plague and others are strong.

    Hag has no special ability except for her teleport traps and probably would loose against everyone except maybe a single Legion member or Ghostface

    Doctor has literally no ability to hurt anyone except for in his Mori where he has to be very close to his victim.

    Nurse gets stunned after her blinks so she might get one hit before she would get killed.

    Freddy is also very bad because the Entity limits his ability and his glove isn't very strong compared to other killer weapons

    Wraith has the only advantage of waiting for the last killer alive to be weakend enough to take them down otherwise he is very vulnerable while uncloaking

    Pig, Ghostface and Clown all have small weapons and their power doesn't really hurt or injure their opponents

    Plague only has her puke as weapon and the only version that could be dangerous would be the one that hurts survivors and i'm not sure if this

    is effective on other killers so she is probably like Pig etc.

    Legion is similar but if all 4 fight together could take down some of the others but stronger killers would probably still win

    Hillbilly/Leatherface are dangerous if they come in range but both aren't as smart as some other killers and could be tricked

    Deathslingers weapon isn't really deadly at least his lore says it isn't anymore buy multiple hits would probably give him an advantage but on the other hand a bajonet isn't really an effective weapon and a skilled fighter could avoid it

    i don't know much about Demogorgon but i assume he is similar to Leatherface and Billy

    I think Oni is also similar to Billy and Leatherface but he has the advantage of his rage mode which could make him more immune to injuries but also use more risky tactics which could lead to his demise

    Spirt is very good because she is already dead and the probably only way to beat her is to cut of her her hand with her weapon or vaporize her

    Trapper is god tier aswell he can beat most killers with raw power and use his traps to immobilise his opponents and take them down and because he got tortured by the Entity he probably is also a bit more immune to smaller injuries like knife attacks

    Huntress is god tier because she can use her hatchets to kill anyone at range the only thing to win would be get close and then it still would be hard becuase she seems to be quite strong

    I haven't seen the Halloween movies but as people say Michael can't really die but he could probably just be overpowered with raw strenght, tricked to step into a trap and tie him up or maybe be cut him in half with a chainsaw. If those don't work he wins by default

  • DeshDesh Member Posts: 1,118
    edited April 2020

    Strongest in-universe killer would be between Freddy, Spirit, and Oni. Mainly because I don't know how Spirits would interact with an immortal dream demon. Weakest would be a toss-up between DeathSlinger/Hag/Pig/Legion/Clown/Ghostface. Hag is supernatural sure but she's frail and withered. Pig, Clown, Ghostface, and Legion are just people wearing masks and wielding blades. And DeathSlinger is grandpa with a speargun and a limp.

  • I_Eat_WormsI_Eat_Worms Member Posts: 324

    Jason didn't defeat him, the kids plot knowledge to put him in the real world and get killed even though in the ending he was still alive after you see him wink

  • I_Eat_WormsI_Eat_Worms Member Posts: 324

    well if spirit is an "onryo" because she looks like one and oni is an "oni" because he looks like one and that's his name, then oni would probably be stronger since he looks like he could rip her in half both gameplay (higher speed and his ability is meant to one shot) and appearance (he is like 3 feet bigger both height and width)

  • LexilogoLexilogo Member Posts: 584
    edited April 2020

    Spirit and Oni aren't exactly comparable at all. I call Spirit an Onryo because that's her direct inspiration in every single way, that's very clearly the creature of folklore she's intended to represent.

    Oni is not actually an Oni. He's a demented "samurai" who was CALLED an Oni and has manifested a curse that caused him to take on physical properties akin to an Oni and manifested his rage, but he is not an actual demon (even if he fights like one, which is why I called him a "demon" in my original rankings- but he is not a literal oni) and that's very clearly established. (also, even if he was an oni... honestly wouldn't change his position in my list. The Michael Myers factor is just too strong and the rest of the Killers I placed that high are there because of supernatural properties)

    The reason why I rank Spirit/Nurse as the highest Killers is because I assume they are playing by the rules of being ghosts, with Spirit being specific as an Onryo and Nurse being a more generic Western inspired ghost. In both of these scenarios, it doesn't matter how physically strong you are, you can't fight back physically against a supernatural force like them. Ripping someone's metaphysical manifestation in half is probably cathartic, (if you can grab them in the first place) but it's very unlikely to actually accomplish anything.

    Unless we invoke Entity shenanigans (which is presumably also how pallets affect nurse/spirit, last I checked ghosts don't usually care when wood falls on their "head") but I specified that if Killers had supernatural powers beyond the trials, such as freddy, I'd run off how they worked there without assuming they'd work by the same restrictions they do in Trials. So, no Entity shenanigans to try and make the fights fair.

    Obviously, having the top two positions being "they win because they're ghosts lol" is a little unsatisfying and feels cheap, but I think it's still true.

  • Raven014Raven014 Member Posts: 4,188
    edited April 2020

    Michael doesn't have any fear, does he? So that makes Freddy weaker already... A good breakdown, but I think the Nurse could still beat him because she can physically tear the realm apart. That is how she blinks. She could manipulate it to trap him in the ground if she really wanted to.

    She also has telekinesis, as shown by her mori and general interactions.

  • PrettyFaceKatePrettyFaceKate Member Posts: 1,704

    Concerning the second and the last sections, if we go by how their power works in their backstories and ignoring the special rules of the trials, as you said, the issue is that there's no evidence that the Nurse or the Spirit could be capable of hurting anyone while in their ghostly form outside of the Entity's realm. Also, there's no established notion of what the 'ghost rules' are and how threatening ghosts are in the characters' backgrounds. The Nurse was presumably alive when she carried out the massacre at the asylum. The Spirit never killed anyone in our reality and, even if she manifests herself with the characters of an Onryo, that only happened in the Entity's realm, not our own.

    The only one that interacted with our reality while he himself was something else and somewhere else, is Freddy as we know from his franchise. We also know that one needs to grow frightened of him before he's capable of hurting them. He's effectively a dead child molester and I can hardly picture any of the in-universe killers feeling remotely threatened by someone like him, even in their lives before being taken by the Entity. He might get away with not being hurt because he dwells in the dream world, but he also would be unable to hurt any of them because he's hardly a scary figure.

  • I_Eat_WormsI_Eat_Worms Member Posts: 324
    edited April 2020

    so, spirit is an onryo because she is inspired by them but oni isnt an oni because he is inspired by them.

    hey guys, spirit is inspired by the onryo and therefore is an onryo, because she looks like one, and her story is her getting turned into something that looks like one by the entity

    hey guys, oni is inspired by the oni, but he isnt actually an oni, because even though he looks and acts like one, and was transformed into one just like spirit, he isnt actualy an oni because he just isnt.

    and the story does specifically tell us that the spirit is actually an onryo and invincible, even though she seems to scream louder than other killers when getting hit by wood

    the story also tells us that oni isnt an immortal demon, because he looks like one and acts like one therefore he just isnt, because well he just goes "oof" like freddy when getting hit by wood. also being 10x faster while breaking pallets with one swing instead of two and being able to ######### punch doors without a weapon is further proof he is not an oni at all

  • I_Eat_WormsI_Eat_Worms Member Posts: 324

    nancy using the power of friendship to ignore freddy (which actually didnt work in the end) and nancy from reboot using generic cheezy one liner to kill freddy and no longer fear him because "its all over" (which also didnt work in the end) is kinda strange as freddy beat the ######### out of immortal guy jason

  • LexilogoLexilogo Member Posts: 584

    Oni has an explanation that isn't "he's a demon", though he obviously is inspired fom onis. Spirit ticks every box for being a vengeful ghost of someone dead. You're also REALLY hyperfocusing on defining Oni as an actual Oni when IMO it doesn't actually change much.

    Oni is capable of superhuman stuff like punching down a door, he's ludicrously strong, really not debating that.

    I also have no clue why you're bringing up the sounds Killers make when they get hit by pallets? I just made a snarky remark that ghosts getting physically hit by pallets makes no sense and is probably an Entity-forced condition of the trials for gameplay purposes. Sorry, I don't think stabbing or punching a ghost would work.

    About the only Killer I listed that IMO is on shaky ground above Oni would be Myers, but that's because I'm counting the Michael Myers Factor, whatever you want to call it. At some point you have to take Loomis at his word and admit he's clearly evil incarnate.

    Nurse's backstory mentions that the ambulance transporting her away from Crotus Penn mysteriously crashed and Spirit's backstory IMO implies she killed her father before being transported to The Entity's realm seeing as a "pact was made". I think given some other references like Hag and Oni a case can be made that these Killers have indeed killed outside of The Entity's realm before being brought there via stints of using their supernaturally-imbued powers, even if it was presumably The Entity that granted these abilities.

    Freddy IS the only fleshed-out example we know of to draw references from, we can't say for certain how Spirit/Nurse would act outside of Trials as supernatural forces, but as long as we agree they can fight in the first place, and can't be defeated with physical force, that's my logic. Could Spirit pull every trick shown off in, say, The Grudge series of movies, maybe, maybe not, IMO it doesn't matter much in the rankings.

    As for Freddy needing his victims to be afraid to fight them, I'm honestly unsure regarding that so not sure I can speak much on it. I'll assume he CAN fight Killers without them needing to be terrified seeing as Freddy vs Jason is often cited. I do think there's a reasonable chance some of his fights would end with his opponent just grabbing him, waking up in that moment, then easily killing him, but because of the fuzziness and potential of his power I just went with the compromise of putting him high up, but not quite at the top.

  • I_Eat_WormsI_Eat_Worms Member Posts: 324
    edited April 2020

    spirit ticks every box for being onryo because she ticks almost every box for being an onryo while oni doesnt tick every box for being an oni because oni ticks almost every box for being an oni, got it.

    also in year 3 stream (or another stream) one of the story writer/dev people said spirit never killed her father and never will and that was the whole point of her character

  • I_Eat_WormsI_Eat_Worms Member Posts: 324

    so spirit ticks every box for being an onryo because she ticks almost every box for being an onryo and is inspired by a onryo, while oni doesnt tick every box for being an oni because he ticks almost every box for being an oni and being inspired by an oni, got it. so spirit is a spirit, but oni isnt an oni, because well, he just magically isnt even though all the boxes tick for oni to be an oni. his name is oni, he looks like an oni, sounds like an oni, acts like an oni, has oni powers, is undead, but just isnt an oni. its like saying because spirit is a vengeful spirit, looks like one, acts like one, (doesnt actually sound like one she sounds annoying af), has spirit powers, and is undead, she just isnt a spirit because she isnt.

  • I_Eat_WormsI_Eat_Worms Member Posts: 324

    also one of the story devs said on a stream that spirit never got revenge on her father because thats the whole point of the angry spirit thing.

    and the reason pallet stunning is entity forced is because, well, spirit is original therefore created by the entity so the entity is the only reason she is actually existing and has powers given to her by the entity, just like oni, except in gameplay oni basically would tear her apart. demon vs spirit, demon has giant katana, giant club, years of actual experience of fighting (in story he kills waves upon waves of people, not just 4 little bullies), 115% therefore faster, 3x bigger, and i dont know how many times stronger (can break pallet with feet, doors with fist, or in 1 weapon slam instead of 2). spirit has smaller sword, exposed chopped up limbs, slower move speed, but annoying crying noises which might help her

  • VolantConch1719VolantConch1719 Member Posts: 1,115

    Kazan was called an oni as an insult, not because he literally was a demon. "Real" oni don't wear armor like Kazan does, instead only wearing a loincloth. They usually stand taller than the tallest people (which he admittedly does) and have horns, fangs and wild hair. Kazan's mask has all of this, but Kazan himself...

    He just doesn't. He is just a human with far above average strength (which isn't even a stretch, considering the strongest human punch recorded is Francis Ngannou's 129,161 psi punch, and samurai were trained to be powerful). Yes, the inspiration is there, and if the Entity didn't get involved, he could have become one, but he isn't a true oni. Another thing to note is that oni have, to my knowledge, NEVER been portrayed with a katana, but Kazan uses it as his primary weapon. Everything that is oni-like about him comes from his Entity-given power, strength and mask.

    Rin on the other hand IS an onryō. They are formed from those who died with extremely powerful emotions (such as jealousy, rage or hatred, two of the three of which Rin has) and are unable to pass on. They are usually the victims of horrible catastrophes (betrayal and murder being some of those, which, by the way, happened to Rin) and display the markings of their death (arms and leg chopped apart, side torn into, shards of glass piercing her body, all of these check) and are motivated entirely by revenge (the entire thing Rin was promised by the Entity).

  • I_Eat_WormsI_Eat_Worms Member Posts: 324

    rin and the spirit wasnt formed by emotions, she was formed by the entity who saw her emotions and made her undead and gave powers with limitations, basically like oni but instead of pure "rage" its more emotional. entity gave her all the flying limbs and hair and everything. entity gave oni oni like powers and an oni undead look (imo he looks like a mix of oni and ogre). in the trailer for cursed legacy, you see oni standing like a ######### absolute giant in comparison to yui, while in game he is the standard tall killer height (because indoor doors). he isnt just a "human", he was once like rin, but now he is an basically an oni who can start glowing red and scream across the entire map, move at insane billy like speeds and 1 shot. kazan was called oni, kazan hated it, and then basically turned into an oni

  • JoelwinoJoelwino Member Posts: 550

    The spirit, obviously. No other killer even comes close.

    Source -> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Onryō

  • JoelwinoJoelwino Member Posts: 550

    You know the thing spirit does where she flickers in and out of existence while running? That's probably what happens whenever you try to attack her. Onryo can't be damaged physically since they're already dead, but they can still feel pain which is probably why she's so loud when stunned by a pallet. She can teleport, so good luck grabbing her when she can just flicker out of your arms and appear right behind you with her wakizashi drawn. And I don't know what emotions you think the spirit is motivated by because the main emotion for onryo is always rage. The spirit is pure, uncontrollable rage that can teleport right on top of you and can't be physically harmed. I don't think that the entity created everything about her, I just think it harnessed her incredible rage and tied her powers to it. And if you look at typical onryo abilities, technically the spirit has the power to raze whole cities.

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