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Make Self-Care a limited use perk

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  • Jack11803Jack11803 Member Posts: 3,930
    edited June 2018

    @Mc_Harty said:

    @Jack11803 said:
    Over half of you are just babbling st each other saying extreme ideas, getting challenged, saying something rude, replied at with something rude, and repeating. This just shows how unreliable it is to trust what you said if you couldn’t take othet opinions on it.

    I’m not gonna say who I’m talking about, or a suggestion, because I’m afraid I’ll get stabbed in a dark alley if I do.

    People usually can't take criticism well when they think their right.

    Btw, @BarpleBapkins just make Self-Care causes Exhaustion or apply some other status de-buff effect. Makes sense since you tending to your own wounds you should suffer a penalty for it.

    You calmly just came up with an idea on the spot, without thinking of balance, and it’s the most balanced and best I’ve heard yet...

  • Jack11803Jack11803 Member Posts: 3,930

    @Mc_Harty

    It’s even realistic and makes sense. Now I want this.

  • Mc_HartyMc_Harty Member Posts: 3,294
    edited June 2018

    @Jack11803 said:
    You calmly just came up with an idea on the spot, without thinking of balance, and it’s the most balanced and best I’ve heard yet...

    Tbh its not even my idea. Someone else came up with it. I thought it sounded good. I'll try to find the original poster that came up with it

    I don't care if its not perfect I'm just throwing ideas around for the other posters or the devs.

    EDIT : Here it is - http://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/9200#Comment_9200

  • RepliCantRepliCant Member Posts: 1,390

    I hear your complaints, I seriously do.

    But SELF CARE IS NOT AS OP AS EVERYONE THINKS.

    I went 3 months without using it as a test to see, and it's true. It's easily passable to get away without using it. Just a few unlucky moments where it could've came in handy and it didn't. Your complaints/critique (I believe) has to do with SWF. With SWF most perks become OP because of the skill cap is very, very high when putting 4 skillful survivors with 4 Tier III perks.

    But nerfing Self Care is a huge detriment to solo players, and I don't think anyone takes in to account these Solo Players anymore. Like, I rely a bit on SC because my teammates are usually dumb and don't have a clue what they're doing. Even in high ranks lol. It'd be nice to be thought of as a solo queuer...

  • Jack11803Jack11803 Member Posts: 3,930

    @Brady

    Yeah....they said that playing with it is not necessary, and doesn’t effect you, so being without it because of a nerf isn’t bad.....but that just proves it doesn’t need a nerf if it’s effect on survival is minimal.

  • RepliCantRepliCant Member Posts: 1,390

    @Jack11803 said:
    @Brady

    Yeah....they said that playing with it is not necessary, and doesn’t effect you, so being without it because of a nerf isn’t bad.....but that just proves it doesn’t need a nerf if it’s effect on survival is minimal.

    Again, the problems are more rooted with a high skill cap than the perk itself. The perk just adds to the meta (It's the #1 most used perk) that allows the skill cap to become higher.

    But with that being said, SWF greatly exploits the skill cap. When used in SWF, Self-Care is powerful. When playing as 4 solo players, Self-Care is merely used as a way to not rely on other teammates. To play as a lone wolf. But it's not even necessary. I'd say my rate of escaping without self care during that time was roughly around 60-78%. Which is more than half, to about three quarters of the times I'd escape. It's just nice to know that we survivors who play by ourselves can heal ourselves with a little bit longer timeframe without having to run around finding someone else and possibly get caught in the crossfire.

    Like you said, proving that it isn't necessary shows that a nerf isn't needed in the first place. There's killers out there able to destroy teams (4 kills) with everyone having the meta. I escaped your chase, my reward is that I'm able to go off and heal myself to healthy again so I'm not the same easy target. I rather not be punished for successfully escaping you.

  • powerbatspowerbats Member Posts: 7,068
    edited June 2018

    The issue is that svf is making killers ask for nerfs that then turn around and hurt the solo players the most instead of actually fixing the problem. Most of my games are either complete noobs as in they all go try and rescue the camped hooked survivor resulting in the killer having 3 downed in less than 4 mins.

    I use self care to keep myself going if I get caught in the crossfire so I can try and do gens and thereby punish said camper. There's other games where on the really big maps you're pretty much all alone and the chances of finding a team mate or chest let alone one that hasn't been looted already are slim and one.

    While I get games with good players, I also get games with really good killers who quite often get that 4 sacrifice match. So stop trying to nerf survivor perks and instead nerf svf perks so that solo's and randoms don't get screwed.

  • BarpleBapkinsBarpleBapkins Member Posts: 36

    @Mc_Harty said:

    @Jack11803 said:
    Over half of you are just babbling st each other saying extreme ideas, getting challenged, saying something rude, replied at with something rude, and repeating. This just shows how unreliable it is to trust what you said if you couldn’t take othet opinions on it.

    I’m not gonna say who I’m talking about, or a suggestion, because I’m afraid I’ll get stabbed in a dark alley if I do.

    People usually can't take criticism well when they think their right.

    Btw, @BarpleBapkins just make Self-Care causes Exhaustion or apply some other status de-buff effect. Makes sense since you tending to your own wounds you should suffer a penalty for it.

    Probably would be a better solution than reworking the perk entirely, but I still feel the need for it to be limited. I'd settle for this to see how it would work out, though.

  • powerbatspowerbats Member Posts: 7,068

    @BarpleBapkins said:

    @Mc_Harty said:

    @Jack11803 said:
    Over half of you are just babbling st each other saying extreme ideas, getting challenged, saying something rude, replied at with something rude, and repeating. This just shows how unreliable it is to trust what you said if you couldn’t take othet opinions on it.

    I’m not gonna say who I’m talking about, or a suggestion, because I’m afraid I’ll get stabbed in a dark alley if I do.

    People usually can't take criticism well when they think their right.

    Btw, @BarpleBapkins just make Self-Care causes Exhaustion or apply some other status de-buff effect. Makes sense since you tending to your own wounds you should suffer a penalty for it.

    Probably would be a better solution than reworking the perk entirely, but I still feel the need for it to be limited. I'd settle for this to see how it would work out, though.

    Exhaustion is a bit much, especially if you're facing a good/great killer and their hounding you. as someone else had suggested make it so that if you're using self heal that if you fail the skill check/stop healing then the progress gets reset to zero.

    This would be a way more balanced solution than to simply gut it with heavy nerfs just because all the high ranked players/SVF groups use it. It'd be way more balanced this way while still being a useful perk.

  • SadonicShadowSadonicShadow Member Posts: 1,146

    I always liked the idea of selfcare giving you a sort of no mither effect. Gets rid of blood drops and sounds of pain, you still limp and you still go down in one hit. Then buff the self heal speed to the normal heal speed and tremendously buff the self heal efficiency atleast to the point that a brown medkit can give you two full self heals. This would mean if you want to fully selfheal you need to bring a medkit, if you dont have a medkit you just have to live with a subpar heal that mitigates the seriousness of your injury until you find a medkit or a teammate. Atleast this way the perk still has a functional purpose and gives people a real reason to bring medkits even if its a crummy brown one.

  • powerbatspowerbats Member Posts: 7,068

    @SadonicShadow said:
    I always liked the idea of selfcare giving you a sort of no mither effect. Gets rid of blood drops and sounds of pain, you still limp and you still go down in one hit. Then buff the self heal speed to the normal heal speed and tremendously buff the self heal efficiency atleast to the point that a brown medkit can give you two full self heals. This would mean if you want to fully selfheal you need to bring a medkit, if you dont have a medkit you just have to live with a subpar heal that mitigates the seriousness of your injury until you find a medkit or a teammate. Atleast this way the perk still has a functional purpose and gives people a real reason to bring medkits even if its a crummy brown one.

    That's an interesting idea actually and perhaps make it so that if you don't have the medikit/find one you'd only get the heal more fully done if you run the botany perk. Also if you fail the self heal skill check make your cries of pain louder ie aura fail bigger for that one time fail.

  • SadonicShadowSadonicShadow Member Posts: 1,146

    @powerbats said:

    @SadonicShadow said:
    I always liked the idea of selfcare giving you a sort of no mither effect. Gets rid of blood drops and sounds of pain, you still limp and you still go down in one hit. Then buff the self heal speed to the normal heal speed and tremendously buff the self heal efficiency atleast to the point that a brown medkit can give you two full self heals. This would mean if you want to fully selfheal you need to bring a medkit, if you dont have a medkit you just have to live with a subpar heal that mitigates the seriousness of your injury until you find a medkit or a teammate. Atleast this way the perk still has a functional purpose and gives people a real reason to bring medkits even if its a crummy brown one.

    That's an interesting idea actually and perhaps make it so that if you don't have the medikit/find one you'd only get the heal more fully done if you run the botany perk. Also if you fail the self heal skill check make your cries of pain louder ie aura fail bigger for that one time fail.

    I actually like the idea for that combo. If you dont want to bring a medkit just bring selfcare + botany and that would allow you to fully selfheal. 2 perk slots for full, unlimited selfheals. Would be a balanced tradeoff.

  • M2FreamM2Fream Member Posts: 288
    Here is the best soulution

    A full heal can be made with 8 charges
    Self care starts with 6/8/10 charges and has a cap of 12/14/16. For every great skillcheck you make you get 1/2/2 charges back.

    In this way, it makes perks like thjs is not happening and stake out much more viable. It also ensures that selfcare in technically infinate, but not in an abusable way.

  • CallMeRusty420CallMeRusty420 Member Posts: 615

    @BarpleBapkins said:
    Having self-care as an infinite use perk is very powerful on its own since it doesn't make you rely on your teammates or to scavenge for a med kit at any time. I feel like self-care should be one of the perks that should be used only if you really need to, similar to how Unbreakable only allows you do get up once, but still keeps the fast recovery rate. It shouldn't allow the survivor to be completely dependent without the aid of other survivors, and should only count on the perk when it's most needed, such as when there are no survivors able to assist you or when you're that last survivor in the trial.

    I feel like the perk should either be token based or charge based. Having it token based can make it rely on helping teammates by completing altruistic actions, similar to WGLF and having a max stack of tokens. In turn, the perk could have moderately faster healing speed that current self-care, but fully healing yourself or having another survivor finish healing you when you're over 75% healed can consume a token, and you'll have to complete more altruistic actions to gain another token, and the survivor will start the match with either 1 or 0 tokens depending on the tier. Having it charge based would only let you heal for a certain amount of time and could be recharged by either healing teammates or collecting a med kit of rare quality or higher, making the perk not infinite but not very limited.

    Let me know what other changes to the perk could be done to help actually balance it out. The goal is to not make the perk as crutch as it currently is and to not make it a staple perk for survivors for easier games. The game should be team-based and be centered around benefiting you for helping others and increasing the odds of survival instead of allowing survivors to lone-wolf the game by simply bringing in this perk. I feel like the game should be an actual challenge for the survivor instead of making it a huge challenge to the killer.

    I've already suggested this change numerous times in the past. I'm not even sure if the devs listen.

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