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Petition To Either Create Ranked And Casual, OR Balance The Game Around SWF

weirdkid5weirdkid5 Member Posts: 2,066
edited May 2018 in General Discussions

From Mathieu Cote himself, the reason why this game was balanced around Uncertainty Factors. This is this fundamental reason SWF breaks the game, and the devs have failed to support this fundamental:
I wish to set forth a petition for the Devs to do as the title suggests. If you agree, please +1 below. Here is my argument:

What's Wrong

We need a change of pace in the game. Currently, the statistics show that a very large portion of players are always within at least a group with 1 other person. About 30% of the Playerbase are solo querers. From this game's inception, it was always balanced around the Survivors having 0 communication with each other. This is the reason perks like Bond, Empathy, Kindred, and the like exist. They exist to give you information that you otherwise do not have access to, such as teammate positions and, more importantly, the position of the Killer.

Using Voice Chat in Survive With Friends is Violation of Rule Number 5

What is Rule Number 5 you ask?

"5. Other hacks
Using 3rd party software or other tools to gain any kind of unfair advantage wasn’t intended by the game, except if they have been whitelisted by us. Heavy proof and a video recording is mandatory."

Whenever a group is using Survive With Friends, or SWF, they are typically using some form of Voice Chat software. This allows them to gain access to what are, essentially, free perks. In my honest opinion of playing both sides, this is a form of Cheating and using 3rd Party Software, a clear violation of the Rule Number 5 in the list of Bannable Offenses in the News & announcements section of the Dead by Daylight forum. This gives players access to the benefits of Bond, Empathy, Kindred, and even Deja Vu, as they can be informed of the Killer's position from anywhere on the map. Part of the balance was that you were always unaware, left wondering what the Killer is out there doing. Will he patrol you soon? Is he chasing someone? Or is Myers stalking you? It's supposed to be a horror game.

Unfortunately, we have a bit of a dilemma here. There are some who do not use VOIP software when they play SWF. These groups may be punished for not being able to play with each other, despite not breaking any rules. Rule Number 5 also states that video evidence is required to ban people for using 3rd Party Software that is not whitelisted. This means things like Discord, Skype, even Steam Calling are all violation of Rule Number 5. However, in the General Discussions segment there is a rule towards the bottom that says this: "- Openly admitting to cheating in DbD." Anyone who claims to using VOIP, or even anyone who has played the game with them streaming with using VOIP is technically video evidence of 3rd Party Software. Now, am I asking for anyone who has used VOIP to be banned from the game?

Absolutely NOT. Many of us simply wish to play with our friends. This is why I propose ONE of TWO changes to be made to this wonderful game. A solution should be created instead of handing out punishments or allowing the game to fester with these problems.

The Solutions

  1. Create a Ranked and a Casual Playlist
    Now, I know what you're thinking. "But weirdkid5, that will split the playerbase!"

The playerbase is already divided as is. There's no reason to force people to do something they do not wish to deal with, or to have to make anyone dodge or have to deal with being dodged for several minutes. Ever since the inclusion of SWF, things have taken wild turns for the balance of this game.

I suggest that we have a Ranked mode that allows only solo queue players, or if we have to compromise, up to only TWO people in a pre-made group. There could be 2 teams of 2 SWF groups. The other mode would be a Casual Mode, where any number of players can group up and find a Killer.

Ranked could have Seasonal Rewards for players who attain Ranks from 15, to 10, to 5, and finally to 1. These rewards could range anywhere from Bloodpoints, to Teachable Perks, and even unique cosmetics that do not come around very often, and can only be attained through Rank 1, or something similar.

However, there would need to be certain incentive to make the Killer's wish to play Casual Mode. Since no Rank is involved, simply providing a bonus to Bloodpoints for larger and larger groups of SWF would suffice here. It's all in fun, people can do as they wish to the Killer and he is rewarded for being a punching bag, and people get to practice their skills for Ranked Mode if they wish to be serious.

I will use Deceit as an example of a game that had SWF problems and made changes to FIX the problem rather than let it fester. Ever since the game went Free to Play the playerbase skyrocketed, but even when only a couple hundred people played it they made a Ranked and Casual Mode.

This was because groups of pre-mades made the game miserable for other players. If you were the Infected and you weren't a part of the group chat, gg game over before it even starts. To rectify this they made Ranked where you could only go in with one other person.

In light of a user's comment, Team Ranked Mode would also be good with Balance Changes. Here is is comment. Thanks for the input!
"+ 1
but if 4 people want for me hardcore mode i want hardcore mode for team too!
1 perk per TEAM (so only DS per 4 people etc)
no items, no addons, no offerings and GL!"

If this solution is not good enough, then...

  1. Balance the Game Towards Increasingly Larger Groups of SWF
    Bloodpoint incentives are simply not enough if this will be the solution.

Instead, give the Killer some form of increased Power for the more SWF that he has to deal with. What this increased Power is, I cannot say. I do not wish to suggest anything because I am not a game designer, but something like extra Perks could suffice. For every person that is SWF starting at 2, allow the Killer one extra Perk. This could mean he could have 3 extra Perks to play with to even the odds.

Another suggestion is to allow the Killer to have an easier time getting pips against SWF groups. For instance, if there is a full team of SWF, all you need is one kill and two hooks to get a pip. Getting 4 Kills could net you a whole 3 pips.

The last example would be adding perks for the Killer that affect only SWF players, and would not affect Solo players. This way, solo players are not punished for being paired with SWF, and the perks allow the Killer to easily adapt to a suspected SWF group. The user TWiXT is to thank for this, good suggestion buddy!

"I'm for Rebalancing the game around SWF instead of Solo Queue. In other 4v1 games the 1 was always heavily Overpowered in order to compensate. Here that is still mostly the case, but only if against Solo players. My suggestion of how to balance it is to add 2 "SWF Perk" Slots for the killer and to create at Least 1 Teachable "SWF perk" for each killer. These "SWF Perks" are heavily Overpowered perks desinged specifically for combating SWF groups. You can Fill these slots premptively, and for every 2 SWF players, one slot activates. What will make these unique is how they only affect the SWF players and not solo players. Examples:

Dead Weight - For each SWF member injured, in the dying state or killed, the other members have 15% decreased repair, sabotage and healing speeds.

No Escape - Gates take 25% longer to open for SWF players, and the Black Lock (hatch) doesn't open for them without a key.

Heavy Burden - For each SWF player within 24m of a SWF member when they are hooked, rescue takes 1 second longer, and the sacrifice progression rate is 15% faster.

Rusted Gears - SWF Members who fail skillchecks on repairs reduce the generators progression by 15% and if a brand new part was used they take 1 strike in damage and are mangled for 180 seconds.

Blinding Strike - SWF members put into the dying state have their vision go black until 1.5 seconds after being placed on a hook, being rescued or wiggling free from the killer.

Vigorous Assaut - For each SWF member still alive gain 2% movement speed, and 20% attack speed recovery when chasing them.

These are just a few off of the top of my head. The increased communication SWF has means that they are basically playing DbD on Easy difficulty for the majority of ranks, and around Normal difficulty at high ranks. For killers howerver, facing SWF is like playing the game on Expert Difficulty no matter the ranking, and to me, the only way killers will ever be able to face that difficulty on even enough footing is to be strong enough to combat it."

These are just some suggestions, if you have a better one of how the game could be balanced around SWF, comment below, or if the devs read this, I would hope that you could devise a balance change around SWF.

This way, if the Killer runs into a team of solo-queues, they will not be punished with increased Perks. However, the problem with my suggestion is that solo players that get paired with smaller SWF groups would need to suffer. This is why I say if you have a better proposition, lay it out below.

If Solution Number 2 is chosen, there should be an added indicator of which survivors are SWF. This could even be added in to the Casual Mode, and in my opinion should.

To Sum It All Up

This game is balanced around no communication. Currently, VOIP breaks all the balance in the game and can be considered Cheating under the devs own rules. Players who use VOIP should not be punished, instead a solution needs to be created so that it no longer violates Rule Number 5. And the solutions is NOT to simply whitelist VOIP programs. If they are whitelisted, Solution Number 2 MUST be implemented.

The following edit is in response to comment https://steamcommunity.com/app/381210/discussions/0/1480982338956455265/?ctp=6#c1480982338959558793 Please see this person's reply before reading this edit.
EDIT 4: Honestly, it seems to me the majority of players wish to play Casually. From the looks of things, people just wanna have fun with their friends, and there are actually plenty of Killers that float around the mid Ranks because it makes the game more Casual for them. You should have no problem with wait times in Casual Mode because most of the people will be there, even Killers will be happy to play for ♥♥♥♥♥ n giggles and get BP. Hundreds if not thousands already do that in the mid Ranks.

Only a minority of players play Rank 1. For everyone that has given +1, we all want to play the game in it's natural form. Solo, no comms. Hard games with the best Killers. Why are you denying us minority to get away from what you all are enforcing on us? We want to play seriously, but you won't let us. We want a challenge, we want to play to win. If you want to play for fun, there's nothing wrong with that. If you want to play seriously, there's nothing wrong with that.

Let us who want to play serious have that, and the majority Casual can stay in Casual. We don't care if we face the same 1000 people over and over. You will have your 19k people playing Casually and you'll have fun, we'll have fun. we will all have fun. But I can guarantee more people would play Ranked. They would still do it and we wouldn't have terrible wait times. As a Ranked player, I'd be fine with waiting a few minutes for a balaced, good match. Let Casual games be fun and for BP, let us Ranked players enjoy serious play with special rewards, like large BP Jackpots, Teachable Perks, and even New Cosmetics only attained by Rank 1 players. Adjust Ranked Mode so that both sides have to do significant things other than just camp and pallet loop all day for ez wins.

We can do this, there's absolutely no reason this won't work.

Personally, I wish for this game to lose all the toxicity that plagues it. Everyone, let us all agree to make a change for the better of this Franchise's Future.

EDIT 1: Added Incentives for Ranked Play.

EDIT 2: Added a new suggestion for Solution Number 2 in regards to Pip Gainage.

EDIT 3: Cleaned up errors and added a new header.

EDIT 4: Added a response I had to a member in regards to making a Casual Mode and Ranked Mode. The comment number is https://steamcommunity.com/app/381210/discussions/0/1480982338956455265/?ctp=6#c1480982338959558793
Thank you Beckski93 for your argument and stance. This edit, my response, is what I believe to be the best option for this problem this community has. Thank you to everyone who has presented arguments from both sides. I feel we may make some progress if we keep everything civil and honest.

EDIT 5: Fixed "technically." Curse you, Boss! 😣

EDIT 6: Added a user comment for Team Ranked in the Ranked and Casual segment of the Solutions.

EDIT 7: Removed a portion that said MLGA is whitelisted. MLGA is no longer whitelisted, use at your own risk.

EDIT 8: Added a suggestion from the user TWiXT in regards to creating specific perks for the Killer that counter SWF. Pretty good job so far!

EDIT 9: Added an interview from Mathieu Cote at PAX West 2016 in regards to why the game is balanced the way it is.

EDIT 10: Corrected bbcode to be Markdown for the official forums.

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Comments

  • ZiNcZiNc Member Posts: 244

    Just noticing this has some bbcode. I think you'll want to edit those to meet this forum's inline standards

  • CujoCujo Member Posts: 8

    Damn dude, you got this up fast. They need to see it before this site becomes flooded.

  • weirdkid5weirdkid5 Member Posts: 2,066

    Yes, I copied this from my post on Steam. I am currently editing it as we speak. Thank you! I didn't mean to post it so quickly.

  • RSBRSB Member Posts: 2,258

    Oh hello there, Weirdkid. Also +1 to the petition, as always.

  • ZiNcZiNc Member Posts: 244

    @Jigmac said:

    @iAm_ZiNc said:
    Just noticing this has some bbcode. I think you'll want to edit those to meet this forum's inline standards

    bbcode?

    http://lmgtfy.com/?q=bbcode

    ;p

  • weirdkid5weirdkid5 Member Posts: 2,066
    Jigmac said:

    @iAm_ZiNc said:
    Just noticing this has some bbcode. I think you'll want to edit those to meet this forum's inline standards

    bbcode?

    It's what Steam forum uses for stuff like headers and bold font. This site uses markdown which is HTML code. I didn't notice before I posted it initially so there were no headers and stuff. It's all fixed now so we can get on topic.
  • BossBoss Member, Trusted Posts: 11,774
    edited May 2018

    This is no big deal at all, but you can probably delete EDIT 5 now. :p
    Awww, i kinda hoped for more DbD-focused emotes. Oh well...

  • weirdkid5weirdkid5 Member Posts: 2,066

    @Boss said:
    This is no big deal at all, but you can probably delete EDIT 5 now. :p
    Awww, i kinda hoped for more DbD-focused emotes. Oh well ¯_(ツ)_/¯

    It shall remain as a testament for all time.

  • BossBoss Member, Trusted Posts: 11,774

    @weirdkid5 said:

    @Boss said:
    This is no big deal at all, but you can probably delete EDIT 5 now. :p
    Awww, i kinda hoped for more DbD-focused emotes. Oh well ¯_(ツ)_/¯

    It shall remain as a testament for all time.

    Cursed forever. :'(

  • not_Queennot_Queen Administrator, Dev, Community Manager Posts: 1,117

    @Boss said:
    Awww, i kinda hoped for more DbD-focused emotes. Oh well...

    This will definetly come SoonTM

  • BossBoss Member, Trusted Posts: 11,774

    @not_Queen said:

    @Boss said:
    Awww, i kinda hoped for more DbD-focused emotes. Oh well...

    This will definetly come SoonTM

    Yus! :)

  • Mc_HartyMc_Harty Member Posts: 3,294

    Seen this post on steam a year ago.

    I do agree with some of the points you've made. SWF is too strong against killers.

    Introducing a new game mode for SWF wouldn't work however. It'll just be avoided by the majority of the community that don't want to play against them. Hell even killers have stated that they don't want to be given a compenstation against groups like this.

    The best solution for balancing SWF groups is to give the killers passive buffs or to give the SWF passive nerfs. I can't imagine anything else more realistic that these developers can do in this game.

  • weirdkid5weirdkid5 Member Posts: 2,066

    @not_Queen said:

    @Boss said:
    Awww, i kinda hoped for more DbD-focused emotes. Oh well...

    This will definetly come SoonTM

    Eyy

  • CountfunkularCountfunkular Member Posts: 406
    Didn't I read this somewhere before period doesn't matter anyway point is I think the game should have a casual mode. Mostly due to the fact that high rankings survivors and killers are getting sick of going against one another because it stops becoming a game of skill but starts becoming a game of hide-and-seek with who ever sneezes 1st
  • weirdkid5weirdkid5 Member Posts: 2,066

    @Countfunkular said:
    Didn't I read this somewhere before period doesn't matter anyway point is I think the game should have a casual mode. Mostly due to the fact that high rankings survivors and killers are getting sick of going against one another because it stops becoming a game of skill but starts becoming a game of hide-and-seek with who ever sneezes 1st

    Yeah I made this post on steam. Seeing as these are new forums, I felt it was necessary to bring this here as well.

  • The user and all related content has been deleted.
  • RuniverRuniver Member Posts: 2,095

    Oh, it's this thread again.
    +1, ofc.

  • BogdanNEKBogdanNEK Member Posts: 66

    This is a good thing and would be nice to be implemented.

  • Nyvix_FrierenNyvix_Frieren Member Posts: 2

    I highly support this, you really thought about this post and a lot of these would make the game soooo much better.

    I never realised how powerful SFW was against a killer until I played with a full group of 4 today. Limiting this for competitive/ranked would easily balance this out.

  • TheBretzelTheBretzel Member Posts: 83

    You got it up quick! I did not expect to see it here. Pretty good job so far.
    +1 from me.

  • XyluneXylune Member Posts: 2

    Using 3rd party software or other tools to gain any kind of unfair advantage wasn’t intended by the game, except if they have been whitelisted by us. Heavy proof and a video recording is mandatory."

    I'm pretty sure the devs have whitelisted the use of voice chat.

  • weirdkid5weirdkid5 Member Posts: 2,066

    @Xylune said:

    Using 3rd party software or other tools to gain any kind of unfair advantage wasn’t intended by the game, except if they have been whitelisted by us. Heavy proof and a video recording is mandatory."

    I'm pretty sure the devs have whitelisted the use of voice chat.

    At the time this post was created on Steam voice software was not whitelisted.

    Regardless if it is whitelisted or not, the advantage that it presents over not using voice chat is quite clear. It's essentially allowing the rules to be broken simply because the majority of people want it to be so.

  • GeneratorJakeGeneratorJake Member Posts: 11

    BOOO jk +1

  • MonitorZeroMonitorZero Member Posts: 14

    Been waiting for some kinda casual since the start. It would eliminate most of the salt in this game since right now 1k+ hour people are placed with 20 hour players.

  • lunarjenacidelunarjenacide Member Posts: 14
    Survive with friends can be toxic I understand but also can be a great game play experience. This is my favourite game to play and my partner is overseas it's how we play together. Our lobbies would never connect other wise. If your killer you have the option to leave the lobby when you see a swf group join before the match starts and create a new one.
  • weirdkid5weirdkid5 Member Posts: 2,066

    @lunarjenacide said:
    Survive with friends can be toxic I understand but also can be a great game play experience. This is my favourite game to play and my partner is overseas it's how we play together. Our lobbies would never connect other wise. If your killer you have the option to leave the lobby when you see a swf group join before the match starts and create a new one.

    People are just going to continue to complain about lobby dodgers in that case.

  • lunarjenacidelunarjenacide Member Posts: 14
    Lol I know . People always find something to complain about it's human nature but really people should stop worrying about all this and just have fun playing not labeling each other. On PS4 the community for DBD from Australia and New Zealand are just awful. Groups personally attacking people on a horrible level. Finding personal information out by stalking them and then using the game also to bully as the server is so small. It really sucks. I play pc and ps4 I love both but people need to stop letting grief from the game turn them so bitter. One girl nearly attempted suicide over it recently :(
  • SpicybarbecueSpicybarbecue Member Posts: 183

    just remove swf from the game, problem solved

  • USADave85USADave85 Member Posts: 8

    I appreciate the long thought out post, but I'm not interest in a ranked mode at this point. I would like to see a reward for ranks though.

  • SteveSteve Mod, Dev, ACM Posts: 27

    Reading this post, it seems very interesting some of the ideas you have are interesting but I can also see some negatives.

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