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A Legion rework that merges the old and the new one with counterplay (very detailed post)

NullSp3cNullSp3c Member Posts: 755
edited May 24 in Feedback and Suggestions

Hi! So, I wanted to make a general change to how legion works, maintaining the feral frenzy's objective and power but it will feel much more fun to play as and to play against. It's very similar, but very different at the same time.

I want to clear his already: Deep wounds is in a near-perfect state as it is now because it can't be exploited by both sides.

I'll first make the description of the power and then put the numbers and add-ons that need a change after it. Please note that Frenzy is the power itself (any mention to this applies to both stances), Feral Frenzy is a stance and Bestial Frenzy is another stance. This seems really hard to understand, but it is pretty easier than it looks, specially in-game i think its easier to understand.

So here's the power:

FRENZY

The Legion has a Frenzy power gauge that builds up over time. When tapping the Power button, The Legion goes into Feral Frenzy. While Frenzy is active, the power gauge drains rapidly and the power ends when the gauge is empty, entering in a fatigue state.

When Feral Frenzy is active, The Legion enters a deadly rage:

  • The Legion sprints faster than base movement speed.
  • The Legion's terror radius is increased.
  • The Legion can vault windows faster. Can break pallets, but not vault them.
  • Survivors' Scratch Marks and blood pools are hidden from The Legion's view.
  • Missing an attack depletes half of The Legion's entire power gauge and ends the power immediately.
  • Applying Deep Wounds triggers "Killer Instinct"revealing the location of all Survivors who do not have the Deep Wound Status Effect applied and are within The Legion's Terror Radius.
  • Hitting a non-healthy Survivor puts the survivor in the dying state, depletes The Legion's entire power gauge and ends the power immediately.
  • Hitting a healthy Survivor upgrades Feral Frenzy into Beastial Frenzy until the power ends, refills the Legion's entire power gauge and inflicts Deep Wounds to that survivor.

While in Beastial Frenzy:

  • The Legion sprints even faster.
  • The power gauge lasts longer.
  • Survivors' Scratch Marks are hidden from The Legion's view.
  • Missed attacks have a reduced cooldown, deplete 25% of the power gauge and no longer end the Frenzy.
  • Legion is also able to vault pallets but not to break them.
  • Hitting a survivor:
    • Applies the Deep Wound Status Effect.
    • Injures the Survivor, if they are not already injured.
    • Refills The Legion's entire power gauge.

While in Beastial Frenzy, hitting a survivor who is currently afflicted with the Deep Wound Status Effect:

  • Reduces a portion of the survivor's deep wound bleedout timer.
  • Depletes The Legion's entire power gauge and ends the power immediately.

NOTE: Hitting a Survivor with a basic attack will deplete the power gauge.


Some notes that aren't in the power description but might be important too
  • Manually cancelling the power depletes the power bar (like OG legion).
  • Getting hit by a pallet outside of Frenzy does NOT deplete the power gauge.
  • Pretty much like now, Frenzy's attacks are NOT basic attacks (so no sinergy with exposed).
  • Legion can see auras while Killer Instinct is activated.
Some not so important things that i think that need adjustment for these changes (Ex: Visual clues and QoL changes)
  • Add a VFX to make a distinction between Feral Frenzy and Bestial Frenzy. I would suggest to make some kind of wind particles go from the front of Legion to behind (pretty much like in the power icon) when in Beastial Fenzy, to give an idea of bonus speed.

NOW ONTO THE VALUES

Base Killer stats
  • 4.4 m/s (110%)
  • 24 meter terror radius

POWER STATS/NUMBERS

FRENZY

  • The power can only be activated when the power gauge is full.
  • Refill time: 15 seconds.
  • Terror radius increase: 24 meters --> 32 meters.
  • Fatigue Duration: 3 seconds.
Feral Frenzy
  • Speed: 5.2 m/s.
  • Duration: 7 seconds.
  • Vault Duration: 0.9 seconds.
  • Breaking pallets: Same speed as normal (stops the draining of the power gauge until the animation finishes).
Bestial Frenzy
  • Speed increase: +0.2 m/s (5.4 m/s)
  • Duration increase: +3 seconds (10 seconds)
  • Vault Duration for windows and pallets: 0.9 seconds.
  • Survivor's deep wound timer reduction: 10 seconds (30 second timer).

ADD-ONS

Common add-ons:
  • Smiley Face Pin: Slightly decreases the power gauge depletion on successful attacks outside of Frenzy. (10% of the gauge remains).
  • Scratched Ruler: Slightly reduces Frenzy Recovery time. Does not stack. (2 seconds).
  • Mischief List: Slightly increases Beastial Frenzy's duration. (+1 second).
  • Friendship Bracelet:
    • Slightly increases the terror radius while in Frenzy. (+4 meters)
    • Slightly increases the movement speed of Frenzy. (+0.1 m/s)
Uncommon add-ons:
  • Never-Sleep Pills:
    • Moderately increases the terror radius while in Frenzy. (+8 meters)
    • Slightly increases the movement speed of Frenzy. (+0.1 m/s)
  • Mural Sketch: Slightly increases Beastial Frenzy's duration. (+1.5 seconds).
  • Julie's Mixtape: Survivors put into deep wounds suffer from the Mangled status effect for 60 seconds.
  • Etched Ruler: Moderately reduces Frenzy's Recovery time. Does not stack. (3.5 seconds).
  • Defaced Smiley Pin: Moderately decreases the power gauge depletion on successful attacks outside of Frenzy. (20% of the gauge remains).
Rare add-ons:
  • The Legion Pin: Considerably decreases the power gauge depletion on successful attacks outside of Frenzy. (30% of the gauge remains).
  • Susie's Mixtape:
    • Considerably increases the terror radius while in Frenzy. (+16 meters).
    • Moderately increases the movement speed of Frenzy. (+0.2 m/s)
  • Stolen Sketch Book: Slightly increases Beastial Frenzy's duration. (+2 seconds).
  • Nasty Blade: Slightly increases Mending time. (1.5 seconds)
  • Joey's MIxtape: Survivors put into deep wounds suffer from the Broken status effect for 60 seconds.
Very Rare add-ons:
  • Stab Wounds Study:
    • While suffering from deep wounds:
      • Survivors' grunts of pain are considerably louder (50% louder than normal).
      • Survivors' suffer from the oblivious status effect.
  • Frank's Mixtape: While in Feral Frenzy, missed attacks have a reduced cooldown and only drop 33% of the power gauge. While in Beastial Frenzy missed attacks don't drop the power gauge.
  • Filthy Blade: Moderately increases mending time. (2.5 seconds)
  • Cold Dirt: Survivors put into deep wounds moderately suffer from the Hindered status effect until fully mended (-0.2m/s) and from the Blindness status effect for 60 seconds.
Ultra Rare add-ons:
  • Fuming Mixtape:
    • While using Frenzy, the Repair Progression of Generators can be determined by the intensity of their Auras.
  • Iridescent Button: During Frenzy:
    • Your Terror Radius affects the entire Map.
    • Any pallets you vault are immediately broken.
    • You break pallets 25% faster while in Feral Frenzy. Does not stack.


CAREFULLY read ALL of the topics above, because some things here sound really overpowered if you don't read everything.

I want to know your opinions on this and if you have any questions, i will answer them. I did a lot of work on this, so i would appreciate constructive feedback.

Have a nice day, everyone!

Post edited by NullSp3c on

Comments

  • BullettimegodBullettimegod Member Posts: 73

    I actually like this. It rewards me as a killer who loves chases. And as a survivor who loves being chased.

  • NullSp3cNullSp3c Member Posts: 755

    I have the same feeling about it too. I would want to know what you think about having a smaller penalty (instead of no penalty at all) when missing hits while in beastial frenzy. It brings more counterplay to it... but at the same time i feel like it has enough counterplay already.

    Thanks for the feedback <3

  • BullettimegodBullettimegod Member Posts: 73

    Well with as wonky as hit boxers are now. That stun feels so bad. So anything to get rid of it would feel better.

  • NullSp3cNullSp3c Member Posts: 755

    I mean, instead of fatiguing, it would just drop like 33% of the bar. Just a small penalty that in some cases can make the difference.

    I agree with the stun tho. Thats why i chose legion to be a 4.4 instead of a 4.6 killer so the fatigue is smaller.

  • shukitaxshukitax Member Posts: 8

    I like the small bufs to lower TR outside frenzy and increase on frenzy to further aura reading+the addons who depletes the timer on base kit. The pallet vault/break seems fine and rewarding too.

    • But i dont understand how you would justify this "Hitting a non-healthy Survivor puts the survivor in the dying state, depletes The Legion's entire power gauge and ends the power immediately." because as i read it you could simply see a injured surv a little far from you, you will trigger your frenzy to end the chase in a few seconds running faster than him and down it (He could break line of sight but in the open this becomes an easy down, and with recharge addons this can become pretty annoying). This will force a gameplan for survs meaning they need to heal ASAP because a 4 man injured team will get down faster than the light, and forcing healing with legion with YES slow the game down like a lot of killers want (im included) but it will be too much because against legion is losing your time
    • If the idea was only when you trigger killer instint and i read it bad, then it makes some sense since you cant down an injured surv with deep wound instantly (also this opens new basement plays wich counters in some way borrow time on some case scenarios if you manage to injured the rescuer first).
  • NullSp3cNullSp3c Member Posts: 755

    Thanks for the feedbkack <3

    But i dont understand how you would justify this "Hitting a non-healthy Survivor puts the survivor in the dying state, depletes The Legion's entire power gauge and ends the power immediately." because as i read it you could simply see a injured surv a little far from you, you will trigger your frenzy to end the chase in a few seconds running faster than him and down it (He could break line of sight but in the open this becomes an easy down, and with recharge addons this can become pretty annoying). This will force a gameplan for survs meaning they need to heal ASAP because a 4 man injured team will get down faster than the light, and forcing healing with legion with YES slow the game down like a lot of killers want (im included) but it will be too much because against legion is losing your time

    4 things here:

    1st- In the situation you described is a missplay by the survivor that has put himself injured in an open field fairly close to a killer. Also, the survivor can simply make legion miss a hit and he enters fatigue.

    2nd- Wouldn't the same happen with a 4.6 m/s m1 killer?

    3rd- The recharge add-ons don't stack because of the reason that you presented.

    4th- Feral Frenzy doesn't last that long, lets do some math.

    4*7= 28 meters.

    5.2*7= 36.4 meters.

    36.4-28=8.4 meters

    The survivor must be relatively close to the Legion to take a hit.

    Making a need for survivors to heal is good thing and don't forget that legion is a 4.4 m/s killer.

    if the idea was only when you trigger killer instint and i read it bad, then it makes some sense since you cant down an injured surv with deep wound instantly (also this opens new basement plays wich counters in some way borrow time on some case scenarios if you manage to injured the rescuer first).

    I don't understand what you mean here.

  • NullSp3cNullSp3c Member Posts: 755

    @Tatariu what do you think? Youre passionate for legion like me and many others. I wonder what you think of this.

  • OhMyWordsOhMyWords Member Posts: 231

    Nullspec, you have made intricate ideas but this is the best one yet. +1

    normally i would place hashtag fix legion but our movement has got almost enough. We just need the miss penalty off.

  • LALYTHIALALYTHIA Member Posts: 1,657

    This does not sound any more fun for survivors. Current Legion is a monotony of mending/healing. The suggestion is: mend, don't heal...except now he'd be able to put you into dying state by chasing you at his higher than average run speed? He can't jump a palette (one of his cooler features to see as survivor) but breaking a palette wastes none of his power? I don't see where this would be any improvement from the survivor perspective. What am I missing?

  • NullSp3cNullSp3c Member Posts: 755
    edited May 21

    Many things may help adress your concerns, but still keep in mind that not everything can be that easy for survivors.

    • Legion can only make survivors mend if they hit a healthy survivor first.
    • Missing a hit puts the power on a 7.5 sec cooldown or more
    • Legion cant vault pallets in Feral Frenzy but can vault them while in Beastial Frenzy
    • Tracking is very niche in both stances
    • He is a 4.4 m/s killer, so the power makes him faster for a short time to compensate
    • Hitting someone out of the power drops the bar to 0

    If breaking pallets would waste his power, it would be pretty useless imo. It only lasts 7 seconds and after that youre a 4.4 m/s killer with a 15 secs cooldown power.

  • LALYTHIALALYTHIA Member Posts: 1,657

    "Not everything is easy for survivors"

    😂🤣

    Most things aren't, my friend. Most things are not.

  • NullSp3cNullSp3c Member Posts: 755
    edited May 21

    Thank you for your kind words <3

    I still feel that legion is far enough from being a little better and more fun. I feel like the 4 seconds stun and just, generally speaking, stale gameplay are the worst parts about Legion at the moment.

    One step at a time tho.

  • NullSp3cNullSp3c Member Posts: 755
    edited May 21

    I play both sides equally, i know that most things aren't easy(i hate dedicated servers with killers that have bad ping). Survivor side requires a lot of skill too, most than some killers.

    I just wanted you to get the point 😁

  • GomolazoliGomolazoli Member Posts: 336

    It’s probably allright but I could’t read it after you said he can not vault pallets. Littearly the only reason I mained them from the start and always made a rank 1 worthy build on them regardless of what “rework„ they got.

  • Tunnel_Me_PleaseTunnel_Me_Please Member Posts: 353

    I feel like a rework of Legion's power is unnecessary. Legion's kit is fine as it is, and it only needs number tweaks and QoL changes.

    It's a cool concept though.

  • NullSp3cNullSp3c Member Posts: 755

    Thanks for the feedback.

    I have something to ask you: why don't you feel like legion is a very stale killer with no room for big plays or interactive gameplay for both sides?

    What makes a match as legion/against legion different from other killers?

  • Tunnel_Me_PleaseTunnel_Me_Please Member Posts: 353

    Legion's gameplay isn't stale for me because I like the idea of creating pressure through attacking multiple people in a short duration, and Legion doesn't have big play potential but that's okay. Wraith, for example, has almost no big play potential. His power is just him going invisible and nullifying his TR. People can still find Wraith fun to play even though his power has no big play potential. For the interactive gameplay part, I'd argue that many other killers also lack this. Spirit is literally just a guessing game, but people seem to think shes perfectly fine.

    Legion has his weaknesses like any other killer. As a survivor you need to avoid grouping up to deny chain stabs. As Legion you need to force the survivors to group so you can create pressure via mending/healing. These are some things that both sides need to keep in mind while playing as/against Legion that differentiate them from other killers.

  • TatariuTatariu Member Posts: 599

    Sorry for being late, I've been dealing with personal things that have been stressing me out.

    Personally, I think its interesting and seems pretty cute. However, I don't see myself enjoying this version of Legion. Chaining hits as Legion is probably the most fun thing to do, so having a shorter power duration really hinders my ability to have fun. You did compromise by allowing Frenzy to be lethal towards injured survivors not affected by Deep Wound, but there are just too many downsides in my opinion. Little things like losing your entire power when you manually end Frenzy (while for balance purposes), doesn't make me want to use it. Again, the idea itself is good, but I don't personally want to play any other Legion, than the Legion we currently have.

  • NullSp3cNullSp3c Member Posts: 755

    Hope your things have been solved already.

    You didn't quite understand the rework, this legion can also chain hits.

    As stated above, there are 2 frenzies: Feral Frenzy (the lethal one) and Beastial Frenzy (the chaining hits one that lasts exactly the same as FF now) so there are 2 playstyles too.

    Feral Frenzy can also down people with deep wounds, otherwise it would be too bad.

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