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Pyramid Head Is Perfect

NubgutterNubgutter Member Posts: 86
edited May 2020 in 4.0.0 PTB Feedback

Devs for the love of god please don't mess this up by listening to the survivor mains that want him nerfed into the ground, His ranged attack is perfect and can be easily countered if the survivor knows what they're doing, Hell it even shows where he's gonna do his ranged attack right before he does it and I already have people dodging his attack like it's nothing so please keep him the way he is, Him being able to counter perks like DS but giving up in return strong hook perks like BBQ and Devour is genius and balanced, He doesn't need any nerfs or buffs he's perfect the way he already is so please devs don't nerf him 2 weeks after he's released.


  • PoweasPoweas Member Posts: 5,873

    He's actually aight to face, I like that you get a sound warning which lets you prepare. But knowing the devs... This will one day be bugged lol. Still think he should have a bit longer of a cooldown when he misses though. He's similar to PTB Oni in that sense(except not even HALF as strong, Oni was like Old Nurse level of power) as PTB Oni had a really short cooldown too.

  • OniWantsUrLocationOniWantsUrLocation Member Posts: 362

    I don't think he's perfect. Did you know that the survivors can counter his trap thing if they crouch? That way they don't get the tortured status effect. I don't know why that's possible. Also the red strain should disappear while you use your power. At the moment it's far too easy to dodge. That's basically it. Otherwise he's pretty okay. 

  • NubgutterNubgutter Member Posts: 86

    His cool down is already long enough, Once you miss with it survivors literally have enough time to get to the next loop.

  • NubgutterNubgutter Member Posts: 86

    Yeah idk about that, His add ons where it increases the range of his M2 is already strong enough lmao.

  • PoweasPoweas Member Posts: 5,873

    It is? I think it should be 3 seconds personally, but I could be wrong.

  • NubgutterNubgutter Member Posts: 86

    That's why you're supposed to torment them when they're at a pallet which is what I do and works every time, Also believe it or not if you place it where you know they will go they actually run into it quite easily tbh and I don't think they should remove his red stain while using his M2 that would be too op and plus you're supposed to use his M2 while running around the loop so you can catch them off guard and make it harder for them to dodge.

  • KycerKycer Member Posts: 337

    oh.. totally forgot about that because I rarely use addons on most of my killers lol.

  • NubgutterNubgutter Member Posts: 86

    Yes survivors can easily run to the next loop once you miss and is it not already 3 seconds? Because it sure as hell feels like it lmao.

  • PoweasPoweas Member Posts: 5,873

    It's 2.75 XD. Yes, I think those 0.25 seconds are vital... :P

  • deadbyhitboxdeadbyhitbox Member Posts: 1,113
    edited May 2020

    I think he's in a great spot. His purples need a change, but his power is fantastic. It rewards someone who is good with it, but also allows good counter play.

  • YamaokaYamaoka Member Posts: 4,165

    "His ranged attack is perfect and can be easily countered if the survivor knows what they're doing"

    Doesn't that pretty much prove his ranged attack is NOT perfect when people already managed to counter/dodge it consistently after 1 day in the PTB due to the fact the ranged attack travels like a turtle?

    Personally I think he isn't extraordinarily strong. Survivors with good reaction times will rarely ever get hit by the ranged attack which is all he's got in a chase.

    People who want to dominate will still stick to Spirit, Hillbilly, Freddy etc.

    Pyramid Head will probably be a high-mid tier at best. One single nerf and he's pretty much useless.

  • EvilJoshyEvilJoshy Member Posts: 5,117

    I hope they dont pull another Ash. Wait till after a month then nerf him. The difference being the devs should have known old MoM shouldn't have released the way it did.

  • NubgutterNubgutter Member Posts: 86

    No because you're supposed to use his power once they're about to drop the pallet or running around the loop of that pallet, Survivors can only really easily dodge it if you're on one side of the already dropped pallet, It's way harder to dodge when you're chasing them around the loop then use it, It's all about prediction so if you're good at prediction as well then this is the killer for you and he's pretty strong imo which is good because he's strong but not op the perfect balance and once pyramid head is mastered he will be easily be at least A mid tier and I agree that he will be a lot weaker if they nerd him the wrong way or just in general, He's in a pretty good spot right now hopefully the devs don't mess this up.

  • PredatedPredated Member Posts: 2,470

    His cooldowns need alterations, that's it. Im not saying his powers are extremely OP, just that with the current cooldowns, it is. Just like how Spirit right now is simply too OP to the point where her average kills are 3.2 per match with an average of 3.6 gens remaining. It's fine to be a bit above average, but Spirit games are essentially hatch games, and thats a problem. I'd say muffle survivor noises by 25-30% while she phases and have her phasing sounds work while in the TR since her passive phasing alone is already strong enough to break loops, or at the very least have a small animation when she phases. You can still fake the animation, so that shouldnt change her faking anymore than it currently does, it just would add some mindgaming capabilities rather than being easiest game in the whole game. She'd still be strong as hell. Ever since the introduction of Spirit, killers have been paying attention to sound a lot more. Back in the day, you could be hiding in a corner and the killer wouldnt even notice you breathing. Nowadays, most killers would hear you when they are not even paying attention. We basically just dont want another Spirit that gets introduced, practically recieves no balancing and then when she still clearly dominates too much while having 0 counterplay. We want counterplay. Vanilla counter play. Imagine survivors having a flashlight that allows them to hit you through a solid wall and always blind you. We dont want PH to be the equalivant of that.

  • PredatedPredated Member Posts: 2,470

    Because there needs to be a vanilla counter. I mean, did you know you can avoid DS by leaving survivors slugged? That way survivors cant use DS to escape, I dont know why that is possible. Or did you know that you can avoid flashlight saves by looking away? Or that you can prevent hooks from being dismantled by hitting the survivor?

    Hmm, imagine if you couldnt avoid those things. You'd be screaming for a vanilla way to counter. There need to be vanilla counters, otherwise you're gonna have a massive nerf.

    It's essentially how you can counter Hag's traps by crouching. She would be ridiculously overpowered if her traps triggered as soon as you got close.

  • NubgutterNubgutter Member Posts: 86

    No because you're supposed to use his M2 once a survivor is about to be at a pallet or while you're chasing them around a pallet, His M2 is only easily dodge-able when you're trying to use his M2 on one side of an already dropped pallet, It's way harder to dodge while you're in chase with them around the pallet and if you're good at prediction then pyramid head is the killer for you and just wait until people master him he will easily be mid to high A tier at least.

  • YamaokaYamaoka Member Posts: 4,165

    I guess we can agree he's strong-ish but definitely not too strong let alone broken op as he's got obvious reaction based counterplay. I hope the devs don't do anything stupid. I'm 100% sure he's gonna get bullied if they nerf him in any way whatsoever.

  • NubgutterNubgutter Member Posts: 86

    His cool downs are already long enough, A survivor can literally travel to the next pallet loop if he misses and his cool down is literally almsot the same as kicking a pallet so him missing does cost you a lot of time and are you really trying to compare pyramid head to spirit? lmao and I'm a spirit main who has mastered her and can counter her as survivor when I don't even main survivor so I can honestly say and tell you spirit isn't "op" people only believe she's op because they try to loop her like an M1 killer and play too predictable with her, If you play predictable against spirit then yeah you're gonna have a bad time and why are you going to nerf her hearing and fake phasing when she's supposed to have that since she can't see you while she phases that's the whole point of her power is to not be predictable so she can down you and she does have counter play it's just not your typical "oh I can run this killer around the loop for ages" type of killer, If you really want to counter her then back walk, drop pallets and stay on the side you think she's not going for and back vault windows to waste her power because wasting her power is wasting her time which is countering her, It's the same thing with nurse you can't play predictable with nurse or you're gonna have a bad time and I'm still confused to why or how you think pyramid head is even close to the level of spirit when he isn't lmao.

  • immortalls96immortalls96 Member Posts: 4,652

    3 seconds..? That's a mini ds every power use..on a very easy to dodge attack

  • NuclearBurritoNuclearBurrito Member Posts: 6,807

    Just to put into perspective how the cooldown works in practice.

    After dodging a single M2 attack, I had enough time to consistently reach another tile, and most of the time could get another pallet drop or at least a window vault.

    Meanwhile in the event that no sufficiently strong tile was adjacent to my current one, I'd instead continue to focus on dodging his shots until he gave up and broke the pallet, which was enough time to get even further.

  • PredatedPredated Member Posts: 2,470
    edited May 2020

    Its not the cooldowns that make him miss, its the cooldowns that make him use his long range attack in the first place. The start should be slightly slower so it cant be spammed as if it were a quick basic attack and it should speed up the further it goes to compensate. As far as I've experienced, his ability is essentially undodgable up close unless you have dead hard and it gives Tormented status(either that, or I've been walking on some invisible paths). Considering being tormented literally means you get to be send to a hook, I'd feel like it shouldnt be that easy to apply. Ofcourse the further away you are, the easier it is to dodge.

    And the point of comparing was to point out that there needs to be vanilla counters to a killer.

    "people only believe she's op because they try to loop her like an M1 killer and play too predictable with her"

    No, not at all. You literally cannot dodge her when she starts phasing unless you happen to have a long ass wall. I played spirit myself and its incredibly easy to catch survivors who have better mindgaming. Let alone that you cant even run from one place to another, because she can simply phase, catch up and if you decide to walk, she'll hear you and still hit you. It doesnt matter what you do, you just cannot counterplay that. You can counterplay a billy by going to a tree and using that tree to make a 180. You cant do that with spirit. If you turn around and start walking towards her, even with Iron Will, you can hear it when you walk past them, turn around and hit them. There is no counter to that. Let alone that she doesnt recieve any punishment for failing it either. That is why she is OP. Even a Wraith needs to uncloak first, giving a survivor to make quick decisions. A Billy has less mobility, allowing for sidestepping(which is hard, but doable). With a Spirit, you basically need to be able to 360 her basic attack and hope you gain enough distance.

    "If you really want to counter her then back walk"

    Except anyone with functional ears can hear you do that.

    "drop pallets and stay on the side you think she's not going for"

    Which isnt really counter play, because killers have been whining about pallets so much, that the average map has only 2 pallets within reach, and if you get caught there, you cant reach another pallet, even if you use sprintburst and/or dead hard because spirit is too fast.

    "because wasting her power is wasting her time which is countering her, It's the same thing with nurse you can't play predictable with nurse or you're gonna have a bad time"

    Except Nurse gets a stun before she can move again, which is why back walking her is a counter to Nurse in the first place. Im all up for Spirit getting a fatique stun tho. It doesnt even need to be half as long as Nurse. And Spirit gets her power back incredibly fast. The only downside to her power, is that you have to stand still to use it.

    I can relatively easily counterplay a Nurse. But considering spirits run Stridor 24/7, and they tend to have functioning ears. I'd be needing to use Iron Will together with Off The Record if I truly want to counterplay a spirit. Which is ridiculous.

    And again, PH was meant to show a comparison of lack of vanilla counter, not a comparison in power.

  • Terra92Terra92 Member Posts: 583

    It should be clear by now that's not a good strategy to go against. Phead--no, any new Killer, need to be on Live servers for at least a month before anything should be done to them, barring exploits. The PTB is supposed to be that phase of checking any potential exploits found. The devs have made 19 Killers prior to making Phead, they should know what'll work and what won't by this point, and honestly I trust them at least that much.

    The conversation should continue about him, but Phead shouldn't be changed immediately. And it shouldn't be changed based on anything this forum, reddit, or anywhere else other than in-house analytics.

  • NuclearBurritoNuclearBurrito Member Posts: 6,807

    Proof that the PTB has done it's job so far:

    Instant down bug

  • D3_destr0y3rD3_destr0y3r Member Posts: 120
    edited May 2020

    Yeah, I think he's fine.

    He doesn't need a nerf, but maybe a really small buff like if a survivor that is crouching stays in his trail too long they get tormented? That's really minor & situational but is better than nothing.

    Maybe crouching could lower your chance of getting tormented, and I mean really lower it, but still give enough tiny chance for you to prefer the idea of going around it.

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