I don't care about ds as PH 😎
Huh I was actually wondering if moris worked with cages. Makes it seem like in funny pseudocode terms moris operate on an "if hook state != first, allow mori" as opposed to actually having anything to do with the hook itself.
I don't really have any opinion on it one way or another, but considering the devs seem very adamant on the "the cage is not a hook" idea for all sorts of perks I'm sorta surprised they actually work with moris.
I agree, moris should not work with cages. Perks don't work, so neither should moris.
Mori and cages interact just fine.
Mori's arent activated by either hooking or ungooking a survivor.
When standing on a downed survivor, their current state is checked for "full, struggle or instantdeath"; if its not the first, you can mori them.
While it's true that the mori is worded for "unhooked survivors", it only means it was written when there were no alternate means of triggering it's condition.
In the moris it's written that survivors have to be hooked. They should work the way they say, just like perks do.
EDIT: Before someone tries to "correct" me, yes, Cypress is the exception.
Wow quick response lol.
Thanks or the fact check.
Then either devs did forget to change the mori or it's description. Though the rest of my reasoning is still valid.
Yes, I like to respond when I can. I'm not someone who waits 5 minutes before replying so I don't seem "desperate" or whatever, I just don't see the point. If I happen to be around when you reply, I'll reply back. Simple.
Yes, your reasoning explaining how moris check for the hooking state is valid, but that's not what's at stake here. The point is that moris should work just like perks and for the same reason as perks: because cages are not hooks.
Well the mories probably look for if you are missing a hookstate instead of if you have been hooked.
Just a bug, report it and it will get fixed soon™
Lol I've been trying to allways hook first and then mori instead of using the cages
You keep going on the description and the fact is moris prerequisite has always been you have to hook the survivor which can be avoided. Survivors can disable hooks flashlight the killer bodyblock (which ive personally done to prevent the killer) the cages are NOT a hook the devs have said this multiple times thats why perks dont apply. Allowing it with moris is a inconsistency and since its not a hook ph should just not be able to mori someone after theyve been hooked. "Then hed just hook them instead" yep and survivors have counters to that by flashlight blinding and disabling hooks and bodyblocking. And if the killer tries to tunnel mori out of cage stuff like bt doesnt apply if the survivor is unhooked bt would apply and give the survivor some time to get away. And if the survivor has ds they can just jump into a locker to force the killer to take the ds. Moris are already strong enough we dont need a killer to make them stronger.
Listen, I think we're all in agreement about one thing: moris don't work the way the text says they should.
The disagreement comes from what the devs should do: either change the text so it accurately depicts the effect or change the effect so it works the way it says.
With that in mind, this discrepancy should just be reported as a bug and left up to the devs.
So run Ebony Mori with pointy boy, got it.
The thing is, the description of the mori doesn't need to change, it just needs to be consistent when applied to the game.
Pyramid Head has cages, something unique to his character that no other killers have. That's what makes him so special. Other killers are REQUIRED to hook survivors, while pyramid head can cage them if tormented. That's what makes him so unique. (And in most rounds I've played against ph, almost every survivor gets tormented at least once). Whether the player chooses to use cages is based on their play style, but moris should not work after a survivor has been caged. It just comes with the consequence of choosing to cage someone rather than hooking them.
If hooking/unhooking perks don't apply to cages, why should moris work as well? (Ebony/Ivory)
This will influence the player using ph to actually take the risks of using hooks in order to use their moris, rather than caging every survivor instead.
The description of the mori doesn't need to change, just the activation to use it does, as it is inconsistent.
I agree. If cages are meant to be a different way to sacriface survivor than it shouldn't affect mori offerings and hook progress.
Oh yes, because we can all see the [BAD WORD] code of the game. Totally legit reason to allow mori after a cage 🤣🤣🤣
The offering description EXPLICITLY SAYS "survivors that have been hooked". I don't even need to make other points to demonstrate why it's a problem, yet other people seem insistent on them for reasons beyond my comprehension.
"Somewhere in the game is some code that makes survivors completely silent when injured or dying. Therefore if it's in the code, we have to leave it as it is."
This is you. This is how you sound.
i would just let people be silly its not worth arguing with people who lack common sense. It seems to me these guys are killer mains who need moris with dorito head which is sad. Moris are game breaking as is and to allow them to work with something that isnt an actual hook is ridiculous. Thats like saying you can mori someone if you put them in madness 3 with doc or hit someone with a hatchet with huntress. Its not logical
I actually agree with this. It's inconsistent as hell.
@ill_Boston_lli except doc and huntress dont take hook states when they do that. So nice "common sense" you seem to be so proud of. Real good strawman
It seems to me the prevailing logic is that moris shouldn't work cos cages are not hooks and moris are hook effects.
Ok so you shouldn't lose hook states too. I mean it's not a hook and losing a hook state is a result of being hooked hence an effect. Guess they need their own "cage states" now LUL see the problem here?
"But muh description"
Oh pls descriptions have been inaccurate in the past. Mm's addons are a good example of this. So until the devs confirm if this is intentional or not this is not a valid talking point
And balance? Give me a break. You're across the map. If ph gets there before your teammates then that's just sad nobody really bothered to come for you. You have the chase and then your teammates have a head start to get you. It's honestly baffling people consider this a problem
not always are you sent far away. if you are in the middle of the map it takes no time to get to the cage. again if it was a hook it should proc all perks that are affected by it. he has none of the downsides and all the the plus sides with it. no time sending to a cage and then he can mori you first cage???? that's balance??? yeah right. either way i have put this in bug reports lets see what they say. Yeah other killer abilities don't take a hook state but even still what the message with this is is that the killer ability can grant him the ability to mori with his power. its stupid and shouldn't be a thing. and that's from a killer main.
I'll write this in big print to make it easy to understand...
Your logic that they consume hook states is irrelevant when no other hook effects proc.
And yes it is a balance issue. If PH wants he can get there in under 20 seconds (20*4.6=92m where you are likely to spawn less than 80m away). Every game where PH wanted to tunnel me they were on top of me very shortly after my cage appeared, even if someone was there to save me almost right away. And that is a BIG IF. Any good PH will understand how cage spawns work and won't cage you at the edge of the map. They will do it when you are near the center so they can camp/tunnel you more easily. It sounds to me like either you haven't play against a good PH, or you are not a good PH if you have trouble tunneling the guy out of the cage. Literally the only reason you could defend this is if you want to abuse it.
@thesuicidefox except consuming hook states is a hook effect lol same with moris. And saying it's irrelevant or putting it in big caps doesn't change this so nice try
It's not hard to start running when a tormented surv goes down. Now I play with friends (usually duo) and I'm normally out of the cage before ph makes it so I'll concede my personal experiences have made me bias but I usually have plenty of time to find a loop with basic map knowledge
Keep making assumptions all you want about me wanting to abuse it but I already find ph to be a joke bar when he fakes the power cos no cool down is bs tbh and I just dont have the problems with this people seem to like to complain about
@ill_Boston_lli I agree let's see. If it does turn out to be unintentional fair nough
If it's a hook effect then why doesn't ANY OTHER HOOK EFFECT WORK?
Yea thought so.
@thesuicidefox uh can you not read? Moris and losing hook states are both hook effects.
So if moris shouldn't work cos they're hook effects than cages shouldn't take hook states
your experiences have been good ones then. Ive seen a survivor get sent to a cage not but 20 meters away on certain maps and not too far on others because of where they got downed. finding a loop against him is irrelevant as this killer can not be looped. the key to running this guy is making him waste time and going tile to tile imo at least. but him being able to get to the cage really isnt the issue. theyre stifling all hook perks but not a mori?? come on man you gotta see my point here. I dont usse moris as is because i feel they literally take the challenge out of the killing game. but beside that i dont think allowing a mori but not pop dhop ds bt etc.. is crazy.
@ill_Boston_lli o man only 20m really? Ig on maps like coal tower yeah. That's actually messed up
I think I see where you're coming from lol
Edit: tbh with ya I dont think moris should be in the game to begin with. The amount of times I've been proxied into no bt mori is sad
"Moris and losing hook states are both hook effects."
Bro if mori is a hook effect then it shouldn't work BECAUSE HOOK EFFECTS DO NOT WORK WITH CAGES. Hook effect =/= consuming a hook state. Hook effect is anything that says "when a survivor is hooked" which is the entire point of this conversation.
Imagine asking someone if they can read and not comprehending your own statement.
could you imagine there are two survivors left right i send one to the cage and its right next to me i get there first and just stand in front of it.... RIP
i can agree there i play killer more than anything and bringing a mori only takes away the authenticity of the game imo. Its no challenge when you can eliminate someone after their first hook .
@thesuicidefox no a hook effect is smthn that occurs as a result of being hooked. This isn't a debate
Edit: if the description is what made it a hook effect then I guess you dont think exhaustion reset is actually a hook effect since nowhere on descriptions like dead hard, sprint burst, berus toxin does it say that exhaustion resets on hook