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Even Otz Thinks the Devs Overdid Billy Changes



  • IPlayOniWayTooMuchIPlayOniWayTooMuch Member Posts: 29

    You can’t compare the nurse changes to the billy changes. The nurse needed a cool down because she can go through all solid surfaces. While the nurse changes did lower her effectiveness she’s still one of the strongest killers imo. The billy nerf takes away 3 main strengths

    1. The ability to pressure the map at the start of the game.
    2. The convenient insta down that took skill to hit
    3. It’s always available unlike oni

    The third one is especially important because if these changes go live then it means oni will take Billy’s spot in the top three and no one will play billy because oni will be a direct upgrade.

  • TheOptimiserTheOptimiser Member Posts: 138

    I find Oni to be more powerful than Billy is in the current state, before the hideous changes that were implemented in PTB, but that's just my opinion.

  • EndstilleEndstille Member Posts: 2,246

    Yeah but the thing is billy doesnt make survivors miserable. he is a fun killer to play and play against, tell me why would you play billy now with this stupid mechanic? there is no point, just pick freddy or spirit these however most survivors agree on make the game miserable. No idea why it is a good thing to remove a fun part of the game, that is just how bhvr rolls. Honestly if IF gives people too much trouble, take the perk that counters it. But no, gotta have my meta build and cry when i can not counter everything with it.

  • tak47888tak47888 Member Posts: 96

    Just imagine having spent hundreds of hours in mastering Billy's curving and then the devs come by and say: "Hey guys, here is another patch to improve the survivor experience!". I feel you guys, even though I don't play him a lot.

  • Devil_hit11Devil_hit11 Member Posts: 1,573

    I mean you should look at his new add-on. One of his ultra rare-add on is speed limiter with the ability to eat threw pallets. Hmm, I wonder what killer zones people at pallets and can hit you through pallets? Oh I don't know... maybe the new killer called pyramid head? Why in the world would want to equip ultra-rare add-on to become a worse pyramid head.

    The other ultra-rare add-on named Iridescent Brick turns him into Undetectable after 5 seconds of travel with chainsaw and when combine with his other purple add-on that removes noise of chainsaw, It is possible to create stealth billy. The problem is that you will travel too much distance before undetectable status becomes relevant. For an ultra-rare add-on, this is far too unreliable.

    Survivor mains often joke about how if billy is too hard for you, " You can just put billy at 110%". It isn't a joke anymore. His purple add-on that affects charge time of the chainsaw reduces his movement speed to 4.4(110%). At this point, Why would anyone use an add-on that hurts billy more than it helps him?

    Doom Engraving and Death Engraving both increase charge time of Billy chainsaw, as a result you will overheat up to like 40% and if you miss, you will be unable to use his chainsaw for either 30~ seconds or purposely overheat chainsaw for 15 second cooldown. Billy with these numbers in regards to curving is dead.

    In order to acquire live billy, you need use Yellow add-on and Purple add-on to reduce overheat gauge just to mitigate bad drawbacks of overheating your chainsaw. I don't exactly see where this resource management is increasing his skill-cap. It seems to me that it lowers skill-ceiling by hindering his ability to break pallets(Zone effectively), Curve unexpected angles and reduce opportunity to instant down survivors who are caught out of position.

    I feel like even if all relevant add-on lost their drawback, Billy still wouldn't be as good as he is on live. Crack billy was a build used to ascend billy to mitigate the weaknesses on M1 killers who are prone to looping. Certain perks and add-on combinations are able to ascend killers to vastly improve their performance and make them a lot stronger than they initially are. Its similar to how infectious fright ascends Oni or how stridor ascends Spirit. Some people believe that perks and add-on are not attributed to the killers strength but often the perks and add-on almost exclusively make up the killers strength and without them, the killer weakness become greatly evident. I feel like Crack billy can still be played, but he won't have any good add-on to support such a fast and aggressive play style and if he is played, it might be only thing played on billy given how much worse base kit is. Good thing I don't really play a lot of billy, Just play him enough to know his strategies and techniques waste as much time as possible against him.

    Feels bad for Billy mains out there.

  • DisappointedUserDisappointedUser Member Posts: 420

    You’re clearly not someone who plays Billy. It’s a pretty massive nerf. Of course it is. It’s weird to argue it’s not. The question is whether it was needed

  • DontNerfDontNerf Member Posts: 990

    The rise of Oni has begun

  • NMCKENMCKE Member Posts: 8,050

    The actual point of the changes was to punish improper use of the Chainsaw. However, what really happened was it punishes improper use and skillful use of the Chainsaw.

    If the developers wanted to punish improper use of the Chainsaw, they could've easily added a CD when you use and miss with the Chainsaw (canceling the rev would not be included).

  • Mtom912Mtom912 Member Posts: 741

    bruh why you saying No0b3 said something when he hasn't posted anything lately on twitter, YT, or twitch. Say whatever you want, but saying streamers names that haven't actually given an opinion on this isn't right

  • EuphoricBliss35EuphoricBliss35 Member Posts: 876
    edited July 2020

    “Even Otz”

    This is one of the main issues right here....a heavy over reliance on what streamers say. You can’t even fairly test Billy or LF because these servers on the ptb are god awful.

    When the Spirit first came out, everyone said she was trash...except Tru3 of all people. Now everyone says she’s OP and complains all the time. Everyone cried that the Oni was nerfed and couldn’t be played...and he’s fine.

    But the best part...everyone who plays killer is losing their gd mind. But when survivors complain about something being overkill, unbalanced, out come the memes and name calling? Where are all the memes now?

    ”You know, you’re not even giving it a chance. It’s only the PTB. Let it go live and I’m sure the devs will make necessary changes. You’re just over-reacting. Entitled killer mains. Blah blah blah blah blah”. That’s how you all talk to survivors lol

  • TAGTAG Member Posts: 11,983

    Wasn't Spirit buffed significantly after release because she was terrible?

  • EuphoricBliss35EuphoricBliss35 Member Posts: 876

    She was balanced, not significantly buffed (which is a common misperception). Her lunge was off which was fixed; passive phase was slightly increased; nerfed to not see survivor blood trails at all times; phasing sound removed if within 8m of husk; terror radius lowered to 24m. Her core mechanic was untouched. Everyone went on about how garbage she was though...until more people learned to play her

  • EuphoricBliss35EuphoricBliss35 Member Posts: 876

    The nurse needed a cool down? Tell me, how many god nurses did you verse not using any add ons? Learning her base timing and distance, losing line of sight was all fine. It’s when people used broken add ons that people griped. She’s not one of the strongest killers anymore really. That’s not to say some people don’t play nurse really well. Most of the time versing a nurse is like vs’ing the hag or legion.

    same with billy. Base billy is totally fine. It’s when you can make instasaw billy, steering billy, etc that becomes an issue.

    same with spirit. Spirit’s base is balanced. Her add ons are not, they’re all good lol.

    and everyone might think it’s a joke, but Huntress is gonna be one of the next ones.

  • pizzamess11pizzamess11 Member Posts: 149

    Hes not dead hes just worse and way less fun to play, so why even play him anymore, not that many people played him to begin with and now that number is only going to drop.

  • MozzieMozzie Member Posts: 618

    If the developers are willing to bold face lie in their statement about Billy's changes I'd hardly believe they will have second thoughts on pushing it live. I don't understand how you rework very rare and ultra rare addons and make them so poorly designed. I'm tired of killers getting negative affixes to their powers, where are the survivors negative affixes?

  • DustinDustin Member Posts: 1,637

    Nerfs against killers like Billy (Who I find really fun to play against) is what makes people pick killers I don't like playing against (Which is Spirit) which slowly just makes me only want to play killer or not at all. I rarely play survivor as it is because I find it boring but when I'm forced to play against unfun killers I'd rather play other stuff or suicide on hook. I primarily play killer so yeah I'm super biased here but I don't want Billy to get nerfed after seeing everything in action.

    The addons would be fine if the power wasn't so restrictive and unfun and I worry not many will play Billy after this. I wouldn't compare this to the Nurse changes because honestly Nurse is fine. Billy though I've seen enough to convince me it's going to just make people play other killers.

  • ZensykZensyk Member Posts: 8

    I used to play alot of Nurse, I still do in fact, but the changes didn't really affect me since I never used add-ons and I am very percise with my Blinks.

    This is way worse than the Nurse changes, Nurse is still super strong and fun to play for me. Billy is absolute whack now.

  • FreudentraumaFreudentrauma Member Posts: 1,044

    Original Spirit had a longer cooldown on her ability. And everybody was mainly complaining about it, because they saw her potential. But it took too long for her power to recharge. They've adjusted that with Patch 2.2.1, when it changed from 20 seconds to 15. And yes, those 5 seconds meant quite a lot back then. And that was the point when people started to consider her "fine". It still took some time, until she blow off as the GoTo-Rank1-Killer, but keep in mind, that Audio was bugged during that time period and people probably had to figure it out.

  • PrettyFaceKatePrettyFaceKate Member Posts: 1,706

    I think he was overnerfed, but streamers are not the end-all and be-all. If we go down that road, then Zubat said that the changes were unnecessary, but won't do much for Billies who used to play without add-ons. So, in the end, streamers are just humans with their own opinions.

    I still hope the basekit changes are going to be taken down a notch, because you know they won't be reverted. Actually, make it 10 notches.

  • TAGTAG Member Posts: 11,983

    You're describing buffs (minus the blood thing, which was a bug). She was made better through various adjustments.

  • EuphoricBliss35EuphoricBliss35 Member Posts: 876
    edited July 2020

    Those were the changes made from PTB to live. Every streamer except the one I mentioned said she was awful, had no potential, bhvr f’ed us again, how could they release a trash killer like this, etc. Not unlike how most streamers used to bash dead hard, and even though it’s been in the game relatively unchanged for 4 years, now you hear killers complaining about it.

    The point is...(a) streamers are just a random person with a platform, they’re opinion isn’t gospel (and no it doesn’t matter that they play a lot; a ######### ton of people can say that) (b) you can’t play a killer the same way if they’re changed and expect the same results (c) if people can’t tell already, overly strong killers are being dropped down a peg, overly weak killers will get buffed a peg - not to remove disparity, but to add some level of skill (this is bhvr’s solution to balance issues - personally add ons cause balance issues - people believe you need them and put too much emphasis on them - if you only play killer casually, I get it. When you see someone with 2k+ hours on one killer still using strong add ons...that should give you pause)

  • TAGTAG Member Posts: 11,983

    She was buffed again after being released into live, was she not?

  • AyumuuAyumuu Member Posts: 1
  • a_good_playera_good_player Member Posts: 194

    Nurse is still the best killer on the game, even addonless. Billy is unplayable

  • cwtferncwtfern Member Posts: 136

    OhTofu - Fog Whisperer and Billy main - has since echoed all of Otz's sentiments as well. The main gripe is that even if he's technically still strong, he's just now significantly less fun to play.

  • IPlayOniWayTooMuchIPlayOniWayTooMuch Member Posts: 29

    Yes like it or hate it nurse needed something maybe not cool downs but what could they’ve done. While your correct nurses add ons were the problem. And breaking los was and still is your only way of countering her, old nurses fatigue was her cool down and was the survivors only breathing room to make a play and considering that she can look up during fatigue to regain los before she’s technically supposed to making it easier to use your next blink and never the survivor time to breathe.

    old (current live) billy I agree with, his base kit is ok and requires skill to use and insta saw is the only thing people have a problem with so I agree with you on that.

    Spirit even after her nerf her add ons are still pretty insane like the wakazashi saya which increases the reappearance duration and speed making it somewhat equal to two lunges. The yakuyoke amulet while not too bad by it self has some strong synergies. Other than that I don’t think spirit is nearly as bad to fight, she definitely takes more skill now.

    as for potential huntress changes I don’t think they will (or hopeful at least) maybe her add ons but not her base kit

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