The irony was devs said Billy was the perfect golden standard of balance and they never buffed Leatherface for so long due to him being too strong, even if it was something small like increasing his movement speed. Now he's so strong, he doesn't need add-ons to be viable.
Honestly, in my opinion, killers should be add-on dependent, they should be strong without them
It may be a conspiracy theory at this point but im standing behind the " he was too dominating for rank 20 survivors" and so they couldnt have fun theory. The devs have done it in the past. Remember freddy? i do
Killers having decent powers is unfun not healthy for the game.
I mean a cd can work, when you do not outright punish a player just for attempting to use the power. There should have been tradeoffs, like when you hit a survivor the cd resets for example and stuff like that. It is also stupid to encourage to overheat because the cd is lower than when you actually try to manage the mechanic. So instead of rewarding you for not overheating it, they punish the player for that. It is just outright dumb, sorry not sorry.
There are just so many question marks regarding the addons, the UR is such garbage, a meme addon in UR. Green addons that depend whether or not a survivor has an item. And honestly who tries to lightburn a billy? A survivor uses the flashlight when you are locked in animation so 2 addons that are utterly useless. Addons should change the power and not be something dependant on survivors.
It just feels again very lackluster and lets face it, not many people probably just a few are going to keep playing billy. To be a really good billy vs good survivors you needed a lot of skill ( not talking about instasaw obviously) and it really was fun for both sides. So to me i just don't see any winners in that because a fun killer will be removed from the game it is less fun for everybody even survivors.
I mean look at clown look at his pickrate and yeah what do you think? Is clown fun to use? For the majority he is not and that is why people do not play him. But instead of acknowleding that there is something wrong with the killer, he is underrated. Being stubborn is not a good thing.
If i get a cooldown in exchange for a good working and useable power, then its the opposite of "anti-fun".
Bubba was just too bad without add ons it was ridiciolous.
If a cooldown is implemated, then to buff the power in itself or the power was too strong without it, making it "anti-fun" for the other players.
What is the thing with clown, i play him in red ranks and even if i dont always 4k, in my opinion its a lot of fun to use him.
He has such a great zoning potential, its such a good feeling if you throw the bottle right and give the surv the choice between running to a loop/palett that you gased and take a hit or to avoid the gas.. and take a hit.
So i dont really know what people have with the billy nerf, his mobility was insane, on the largest maps he could traverse from anywhere to any point in about 5-10 seconds. Like proxy camping hooks, sawing away, unhook and immediately sawing back. The only probleme i see here is that his looping potential goes like to 0, so he has to be able to ready up his chainsaw faster when facing the cooldown.
And bubba was completely useless to use if you werent camping hooks, against good survs 1 window is enough to completely counter his whole power. Now with the change you have the chance to even loop with it because you go faster and therefore to balance the buff he gets a cooldown.
And i rather have a working power with a cooldown than a m1 killer with a useless power.
As someone who has played billy for awhile and tried the ptb hes significantly less fun didnt try bubba cause I dont really care
Well her other power never gets limited. So good night.
And yes I know that also has its drawbacks but I never played her so I can't really make a comment about the effectiveness of the crouch and dash attack.
OP is right, considering how games like League of Legends, Overwatch, Dota, etc. have cooldowns - and these are so unfun that no one plays them.
The balance team consists of people who decided to use a gen aura instead of Oblivious for Trail of Torment and whose head said that the entire community was underrating Clown.
Cooldowns on powers are not fun. Like the OP mentions, for the most part we choose killers because we like using their powers, so limiting power usage through clear and obvious, unnatural restrictions is objectively a bad idea.
billy didnt need balancing, you have no right to say that because you are not good enough to say that, good survivors will never say he need to be balanced, unless they suck. facts.
Lol ok kiddo.
Some people here are so far up their own ass it's incredible right?
Using something efficiently isn't skillfull? What? Am I reading this right. Because if I am I think you are out of your mind. Puking constantly on Plague isnt a good way of playing her and will lose you games. Using it sparingly or only when you believe its gonna get you anything is a skill and something learned from experience with her. Same with Oni. When to use his powers, to continue slugging and when to stop to pick up survivors is also a skill. The best onis know when to use their power and when not to. Oni is honestly a more skillfull Billy, sure he doesnt get punished by terrain but he cant spam his ability all the time either.
I think the overheat in its current itteration is overkill on Billy but I dont think its inherently is bad idea. Just needs better ways of cooling it down instead of forcing it to overheat, since thats currently faster and not all that interesting.
The Bubba basekit changes are a buff. Thats a fact. Are they more fun? Yes. Cool downs are a part of skill and for me skill is part of fun. There isnt a single killer ability you can spam thats useful to spam. There is only one killer if I recall where you can spam their ability and there is no punishment. And I dont think anyone wants more Freddies.
I don't say that nobody can have fun with clown, just that most people do not and that has a reason. Don't get me wrong it is fine to use clown but comparing him to billy, he loses that everytime just because chainsaw mindgames and curves are more fun imo than throwing bottles in order to zone people.
Also I completely disagree on bubba being completely useless aside for camping. Many builds and players have shown that this is simply not the case.
It's nice and warm up there. Don't knock it till you try it.
"Let set aside our opinions. Let's only hear my opinions instead"
I for one believe the changes are great, we might need to reduce/increase the rate at which the chainsaw overheats, but I am pleasantly surprised at how cool the changes are. We need balanced killers, not "instantly down everyone for free" ones.
Though, Spirit is way more broken and she needs URGENT changes.
Im not comparing clown to billy. Im just annoyed that it seems like everyone drops a killer when he gets nerfed / most players only play S- or A-tier killers. So yes, billy was much more powerful as clown and even after the nerv he will still be stronger than him.
The most effective bubba build is basement bubba with BBQ, Iron Grasp, Agitation, Insidious. So thats like a pure camping build.
Asides of it of course you can run some perks like bamboozle, spirit fury + enduring to play around the pallets and windows because as i said, they play against his power tremendously.
Or to make a argument that appeals to you, in my opionion it is very unfun to play bubba (because all you do is literally just walk right behind someone, ready up chainsaw, let it go) and he is one of the worst killers.
I mean i did compare clown to billy to be specific the amount of fun i get from both things, chainsaw mindgames and curves or throwing bottles. Billy comes out on top because i prefer that and it is more fun to me because doing a good curve feels great. I get this "######### yeah!" which I never get from clown. There is no emotion from me getting a hit due to a slowdown.
I would like to play nurse, there is a thread where somebody discovered her for himself and it makes me glad that he can play her. I envy him, so i thought maybe situation is not as horrible, had to play a nurse game. I had a total of 8times my blink being deleted and machine gun breathing, it is just frustrating to play when a killer is bugged.
When they release the overheat thingy, they essentially encourage bad or unskilled plays for billy backrev ftl. Sorry that makes him unfun to me, I want to use the chainsaw and have fun with it. Backrev is not fun. How they enforce it? Well pretty simple, they allow for one try with the chainsaw per chase at least that is what it feels like. You will not want to risk wasting it at a loop that is difficult to curve so you go for the backrev which is boring af. They turned billy into bubba, bubba with mobility. So when you look at youtube search for billy nation or stuff like that. Well rip.
I'm fairly certain you did read it wrong, because he meant that the punishment has nothing to do with skill, not efficiently using it.
Fair enough. But I still disagree. Punishment for "misusing" it can be considered a skill. But the overheat would have to be less aggressive than it currently is on the ptb because at the moment it seems a bit much to me.
As I said its something learned with experience. Play with something enough and you learn what you can do and what you cant do. I bet that half of all things possible on Billy was never intended from design, not that thats a good enough reason to nerf unless it proves overpowered.
My personal thoughts on most nerfs are that, I would prefer buffs to weaker killers than nerfs to stronger, (people can call Billy balanced all they want he is still part of the top 5 killers). But if nerfs to stronger Killers will help the devs be able to bring nerfs to survivors then im all for it. Thats ofc if they intend to nerf survivor strengths at all. And arent just satisfifed with having insane gulfs of a divide between killer strengths and that sometimes being the deciding factor in a match.
Take Legion vs spirit. If the survivors are really good at the game, not swf, then Spirit will be a tough matchup for them and they should be pretty happy if 1 escapes through the exit gates, not the hatch(since it feels like a nice but ultimately cheap escape in a fair match). However if its a Legion. Then a lot of times Legion should be happy with a single kill. Thats a massive difference that really should get smaller.
And nerfs to the strongest is one way of doing that, if they then buff the weakest and bring killers closer to a Myers strength level. Not on par. Just closer. And then in turn nerf map sizes, tile spawns next to each other and maybe do something about the start of the game where its very possible for 3 gens to pop before a single survivor has been downed. Then I personally think the game would be in a much better state. But thats ofc fairly far off in the future. Could probably be done within a year but I wouldnt know what the devs thoughts are.
Yea, i think his looping potential will go down, how much it will be the update is going to show.
I can relate to your opinion, for me clown is just kinda fun, especially if facing good survs, which from the start just underestimate you and as the pressure builds up make more and more mistakes. Just love that about him. So i feel bad for you that a killer you admire that much gets changed, i hope it wont hit billy too hard.
Nurse is a pain in the ass on xbox, choosed her on the new map in a kyf round and ported myself from one corner of the map over the whole map in the other corner into basement. its just so ######### up to even consider where you gonna land after the blink. Needs a lot of practice and for me its not worth it. Very respectable if someone actually plays her good.
You've obviously never played Bubba at rank 1. You get destroyed. He needed some love and yes this was 100% a buff.
Billy on the other hand should have been left alone. He is the epitome of balance or at least was. Instead of nerfing strong killers they should buff weak ones, but that is too much work so they focus on nerfs.
This was my TED talk.