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2nd Chances VS Insta Downs

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  • ich_häng_mal_rumich_häng_mal_rum Member Posts: 429

    @Sairek

    You said „surv only have to press a button to outplay the killer and the chase goes on...“

    On killerside there are similar perks to end a chase faster while the survivor think he is in a good position, like spirit fury or bamboozle: the surv runs to a „safe“ position and drops a pallet and the killer doesn’t get much stunned or he blocks the window and the „safe“ position/ window is closed...

  • emptyCupsemptyCups Member Posts: 1,262

    Killer insta down, only works if you are near him

    Only actives if your not already injured

    Wow so weak

  • ich_häng_mal_rumich_häng_mal_rum Member Posts: 429

    @Sairek

    Spirit fury alone makes a lot: of you loop a killer at a jingle gym with a pallet there’s the point the survivor drop/stun the killer and then wait for what the killer will do, and in this moment spirit fury works. To say drop pallet earlier assumes that the surv know that the killer run it, so it’s the same to say to a killer „just wait a moment for deadhard“.

    And bamboozle works very good at lt-walls to get there the second hit, if the survivor doesn’t know the killer runs this perk.

  • GoodBoyKaruGoodBoyKaru Member Posts: 19,845

    Damn @NuclearBurrito didn't come into this expecting an essay but massive props for writing one.

  • BossBoss Member, Trusted Posts: 13,581

    I'm fine with both existing, as long as they're not on the same level as the original Mettle of Man.

  • darwinsbraindarwinsbrain Member Posts: 99

    While the effort is applauded his conclusion that second chance perks are worse because killers are surprised by them is laughable. Knowing the insta down Oni is charging for you doesn't lesson the end result, I still went from full health to the hook in one hit. Conversely if you are surprised by DS or Borrowed Time then you need to pay closer attention to who you are hooking and always prepare for the worst.

  • DrDeepwoundDrDeepwound Member Posts: 2,557
    edited July 2020

    Stopped reading here: "Perk insta downs: NOED, Devour Hope, Make Your Choice, Rancor, Haunted Grounds, Iron Maiden"

    Iron Maiden, lol I havenever even had it proc let alone get a kill from it, Devour Hope LOL good luck ever seeing tier 5, I have ran it one some killers TRYING to get it to proc, never ever seen it hit tier 5.

    If you are using those perks as proof, you need to play killer more and run those perks, youll find you dont get much from them

  • darwinsbraindarwinsbrain Member Posts: 99

    Well, those are the insta down perks. Just laying it all out. Some are better than others no doubt. Elsewhere in this thread you will see MoM, Soul Guard, Lithe, Sprint Burst and Balanced Landing discussed as 2nd chance perks.

  • TheMythicalCatTheMythicalCat Member Posts: 175

    Very few insta-downs have just those weaknesses.

    Tier 3 Myers, takes a long time to get to.

    Oni, takes a long time to get to and relies on Survivors being injured.

    Trapper, takes really good planning.

    Billy, requires good aim.

    Leatherface, can lose the chase if he messes up the chainsaw, and he has nothing else to help him.

    Iri-Huntress, bullshit but still requires aim.

    Iri-Clown, requires really good aim, and the hit with the bottle doesn't even result in the down.

    Iri-Deathslinger, nearly impossible to hit a survivor 15M away, and even harder to get them to you from that far away.

    NOED, only works if a totem is up and all gens are powered.

    Make Your Choice, forces you to be away from the hook, meaning the unhooker has a head start against you. Also forces you to not pressure gens to get the insta-down.

    Haunted Grounds, only works once per match, for 60 seconds, after a survivor cleanses the totem, meaning you have no control over when those 60 seconds are.

    Devour Hope, takes a while to get to, with the totem being vulnerable the entire time.

    Iron Maiden, sucks ass and the exposed is really short.

    Rancor, only works on one guy, when all the gens are powered.

    The only "free" insta-down is on Billy, Leatherface, and Iri-Huntress. Billy just got nerfed, and Leatherface has literally nothing else. Iri-Huntress IS an issue though, which will hopefully be fixed when they look at her add-ons. Compared to Borrowed Time, DS, Sprint Burst, Dead Hard, Balanced Landing, insta-downs are often way harder to pull off, or requires more luck.

  • darwinsbraindarwinsbrain Member Posts: 99

    The 2nd chance perks also only work under certain conditions and are situational. Survivors can get 2nd chances but killers also have many ways to takes chances away.

  • JephKaplanJephKaplan Member Posts: 308

    Well u see everything u listed from the killer side requires the survivors to do smth stupid in order to get insta downed. Devour is a hex perk that can be destroyed 2 seconds in the game, Oni has to charge his power so just avoid giving him free hits, Iron Maiden literally lasts for like 15 seconds, Make your choice requires the killer to go away from the hook to get the exposed and then has to find that survivor without knowing who it is. Base kit onehits like michael and ghostface require them to spend time stalking u which u can easily avoid (especially against ghostface), gen/hook/locker grabs why did u even allow them to grab u in the first place? Also trapper? rly? But i agree that Billy is just bullshit, going around the entire map in seconds and having insta down with no cooldown or downside with giant hitbox is just the most unfun ######### in the game.

  • JephKaplanJephKaplan Member Posts: 308

    Noed is literally a hex that does nothing all game the killer is literally using 3 perks against 16 from the survivors, then add gens being done quickly since ruin got demolished by the devs now add bullshit loops that not even good killer can counter.

  • TheMythicalCatTheMythicalCat Member Posts: 175

    And I touched on that earlier in the thread. Second chance perks are a lot less situational, and the conditions are easy to get.

  • MegaWaffleMegaWaffle Member Posts: 4,172

    Adrenaline, BT, DS (just using these 3 as I don't have a ton of time to type) do not have drawbacks. While they do have conditions that need to be met they DO NOT have drawbacks.

    Myers insta down requires you to use up time stalking and it can be wasted if you don't manage to land a hit.

    Leatherface has a tantrum effect should you hit an obstacle, resulting in a tremendous amount of lost time/distance in a chase. If you do not manage to land the hit (and don't hit an object) you get a minior loss to distance and have essentially missed an easy M1 you could have had.

    Billy needs to be precise (sometimes BHVR servers are questionable for both sides) where missing gives the survivor a little distance and you just lost an easy M1 you could have had instead of that missed chainsaw. You also lose a decent amount of distance should you hit an object. People seem to easily forget that if you manage to dodge 2-3 chainsaws you have basically just survived 2 M1 attacks.

    Anyway there are more examples but I need to get going. My whole comment is NOT to debate if XY or Z is "over-performing" or not but rather to showcase that these insta down attacks come with disadvantages whereas the second chance perks do not. (Again I didn't go through all insta downs/perks just gave a few examples)

  • Throwaway123Throwaway123 Member Posts: 183

    The difference being that the killer's insta-downs require the killer to use them right, while the survivors are used as a shield to make up for mistakes.

    The only one that's kinda on the survivor to use properly is Dead Hard, and even that can be simplified greatly by just using it for distance to reach the next loop.

  • SquirrelKnightSquirrelKnight Member Posts: 951

    Thats kinda the problem. We complain about second chance perks because they force us to play where we have to camp and tunnel. Because when a killer downs one person that way its gauranteed 1 person out of the game. If we try and hook everyone twice before killing, it fails the vast majority of the time. So why not focus one person down? Im hitting ds and bt anyway? Might as well use them as fast as i can.

  • DetailedDetrimentDetailedDetriment Member Posts: 2,632

    All killers can counter loops, some far better than others. Spirit, Freddy, Nurse, and Demo all make loops unsafe or shorten them drastically. Against Nurse looping doesn't even exist.

    To say 16 perks is kind of wrong considering every survivor runs Self-Care. Now 12 perks. Throw in Adrenaline and it's now 10. There's normally one Unbreakable, so 9 perks.

    Original Ruin was honestly worse so I don't see the complaint. Sitting at low ranks for easy games made Ruin good, but high rank players were hitting hex skill checks all the time.

  • DetailedDetrimentDetailedDetriment Member Posts: 2,632

    So what I got out of this is you camp and tunnel on a normal basis and then complain about perks to help counter it.

    The issue is that most killers don't even slug, they just tunnel down the person who gave them the hardest time. You're potentially ruining 1 or more people's game simply because you're mad that you got your ass handed to you. Killers then complain about egc hate messages and send them here and in the Discord acting like the victim as they "didn't do anything to receive such hate messages." The community is almost ######### COD level, but all sensitive, 10 yr old twats.

  • SquirrelKnightSquirrelKnight Member Posts: 951

    For the first point, actually i dont really cap or tunnel u less gates are opened. Secondly i dont care what i do it is never appropriate to tell people to kill tthemselves because they killed you in a game

  • DetailedDetrimentDetailedDetriment Member Posts: 2,632

    There is a large difference between hate messages and death wishes/threats.

  • SquirrelKnightSquirrelKnight Member Posts: 951

    This is true but that was my last 7 games of lunatic death wishes.

  • DetailedDetrimentDetailedDetriment Member Posts: 2,632

    That is the reason I play on PS4 with messages set to friends only.

  • emptyCupsemptyCups Member Posts: 1,262

    Insta downs- reward for skillful use of ability after suffering drawbacks and cooldowns with resource management

    Second chance perks- hehe undo my mistakes every match 16 times per game or reward bad or guaranteed gameplay. Dont tell me skillchecks are a thing I haven't seen someone miss them since 2017. Dont tell me being injured or being hooked is a tough activation it happens each and every match... or you win anyway


    Besides second chance undo buttons you can also subvert team required gameplay and do actions like a one man army

    Noone around to heal me ? I can self care in 32 seconds instead of tying up 2 survivors for 16 each. Noone around to unhook me ? I can deliverance out AND break the hook.


    Killer perks be like- Can't find survivors hiding in bushes ? Here's 25% louder breathing. Thanks.

    Aura reading or noise notifications outside of my range give me distracting information if I'm already doing gen pressure or chase or can't capitalize on because its gone before I can get there.

    And almost no killer perks synergize not to mention killers only have 3 slots because if you dont run bbq the grind in this game outweighs a reason to play it.

  • JephKaplanJephKaplan Member Posts: 308

    Literally no one except rank 20 claudettes runs self care but sure. also doesn't matter how many of the same perks there are its still 4 different ppl with 4 perks each against 1 person using 4 perks (if noed 3 perks all game) (if hex pretty much 2 perks) etc. Also survivors complain exactly about the killers u listed so

  • skarsgutsskarsguts Member Posts: 179

    Killer players on this thread writing essays to defend their easy mode insta-downs. I'm laughing.

  • emptyCupsemptyCups Member Posts: 1,262

    Camping and tunneling is a gameplay decision. The game actually requires it in many situations.

    To pretend the survivor rulebook entitles you to 3 lives and to take turns being targeted is ridiculous.

    And to act like hatemail in any form is acceptable because someone played in a way someone didn't like is sickening.

    Humans are on the other side of the screen.


    Get the person on the team doing the most work out first Is basic strategy, to choose not is actively detrimental.

    Giving up a known location like a hook that will actively kill someone while drawing in someone who will doubly be vulnerable during a save and thirdly put the saved person in vulnerable position

    to what randomly walk away... thats not a smart choice either ?

    How could you possibly blame someone for making those decisions or pretend he's actively intentinally ruining someone's game

  • darwinsbraindarwinsbrain Member Posts: 99

    I know right. So many lengthy posts explaining the skills it takes to get insta downs. Like Myers and Ghost Face have to look at survivors for a few seconds, Billy and Leatherface takes aim (and if you miss just immediately charge it up again) and Oni has to hit a survivor first. Come on. Insta downs are not that hard to get and happen all the time.

    2nd chance perks do have drawbacks. I can't ever use DS if I'm not downed right after getting unhooked. BT doesn't work if the killer isn't hanging around the hook or going after the person just unhooked. Unbreakable does no good if the killer picks me up right away. Plenty of games these are all wasted perk slots. A good killer knows these perks exist and can turn them all into wasted slots. Killers have the control. 2nd chance perks punish killers for getting too greedy and serve as a counterbalance to the killers power.

  • DetailedDetrimentDetailedDetriment Member Posts: 2,632

    No one complains about Demo or Nurse.

    Self-Care is the second most common perk behind DS.

  • ad19970ad19970 Member Posts: 4,652

    Killer with instadowns are balanced around their potential to instadown survivors. So I wouldn't classify them as unfair if that's what you are going by when comparing them to second chance perks.

    On the other hand, I also think every one of the second chance perks that survivors have are balanced.

  • DetailedDetrimentDetailedDetriment Member Posts: 2,632

    And this is why people run DS. All killer mains find tunneling acceptable. More often than not you're going to get hurt by tunneling as long as the team can do gens. I play Trapper and just setting traps can result in 2 gens being lost.

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