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Decisive and Unbreakable need nerfs.

Go with scottjund's suggestions. Make DS infinite use, allow the timer to tick down but pause when the survivor is in chase. Instantly disable it if the survivor performs any actions. Repairing, Healing, sabotaging, unhooking, entering a locker, ect.

Give killers a notification it's active. Put a marker on the survivors health meter to let killers know a survivor has it. Doesn't have to show when it's active and not, just that they have the perk. Then make a visual indicator that a survivor has unbreakable primed. A unique crawling animation or something.

It's completely stupid that these perks are so damn impactful on games that you always have to play under the assumption that they have these 2 perks. Atleast with NOED and Devour Hope you can actively prevent it before it happens, but with these 2 you can't do anything until it's too late.



  • FootMan2893FootMan2893 Member Posts: 232

    Actually completely and utterly wrong. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v_vLlMdu1Sc

    Watch this, educate yourself, and come back

  • MiniPisaMiniPisa Member Posts: 633

    I don't see the issue with that though. If there was a genuine personal notification like No Mither has then literally every survivor would need to run DS to not get tunnelled and no one wants that. The Obsession is random for a reason - it lets the killer know that someone has it but they don't know who or how many, but if they did know exactly who has it then they could tunnel the remaining 3 or whoever doesn't have the symbol and that's extremely unbalanced

  • Lazerboy88Lazerboy88 Member Posts: 517

    No im just saying technically having an obsession doesn’t mean there is a DS in the game. I dont agree with having a DS indicator either

  • TheRoyalOwlTheRoyalOwl Member Posts: 749

    I agree with MiniPisa, in it that unbreakable doesn't need to be nerfed. In the video scott says that he thinks unbreakable isn't broken and doesn't need a nerf, but just that he really dislikes the perk because it prevents slugging.

    Also if one person has ds, and there are no other obsession perks, it doesn't mean the person with ds will always get obsession. They only get an increased chance of being the obsession.

  • FootMan2893FootMan2893 Member Posts: 232

    I think I need to tell you to watch the video again because you're missing a really damn big and crucial point. NO. ONE. IS. GETTING. TUNNELED. This perk is NOT preventing tunneling. It never has and NEVER WILL. All it is doing in it's current state is giving the survivor a 1 minute window of opportunity to do whatever they damn well please while insuring that no matter what a killer does to circumvent it they will take a huge damn loss in the end. Slugging is useless. Not only because unbreakable exists but also because it accomplishes NOTHING. People aren't going to leave their gens for a hook, so why would they for a slug? All a slug does is make their teammate run by later down the road to pick him up free of charge with nothing lost on the survivors side. No time limit, no hook states lost. Nothing.

    If you wait out DS that's 60 damn seconds. A solo repair gen repair is 80, and a duo is less than 50. If you eat it then that's yet another chase that has to occur where you can't predict if it'll end in 5 seconds or another entire minute. Don't tell me that if you're good then it's not a problem. No. No matter how good you are there's never a guarantee of jack ######### as where they're are on the map, how good the survivor is, and how many pallets/windows they have at their disposal is completely up in the air. He could dead hard into a tree and die, or he could die only after 2 jungle gyms, a killer shack, and a cow tree.

    Having this much control over the killers game by just threatening him with the possible existence of the perk is astoundingly stupid. Unbreakable and DS are the only perks in the entire game on both sides where you're always threatened by if they have it and thus have to change how you play to deal with that risk or else it screws you right when you need it not to.

  • FootMan2893FootMan2893 Member Posts: 232

    Like it or get out. No one is forcing you to read anything I type out.

  • MiniPisaMiniPisa Member Posts: 633

    Oh okay. Sure, if you have an obsession perk as killer then you're not gonna be 100%. Very unlikely it's not DS in any other scenario though

  • MiniPisaMiniPisa Member Posts: 633

    Okay first, calm down a bit

    Second, I agreed with the change?? What's the issue? I just don't agree with your idea of Unbreakable being obvious to the killer.

    "People aren't going to leave their gens for a hook, so why would they for a slug?"

    ...Not much to say here. People who do this are bad teammates, it's not normal behaviour. This is just a totally false statement unless the killer has Hex: Ruin.

    I'll admit I didn't read all of this. Stopped after the first paragraph so I have nothing else to comment on. Too lazy to read stuff this long haha

  • White_OwlWhite_Owl Member Posts: 3,738
    edited July 2020

    No one is forcing me, but these threads are all over the place and it's annoying. Just make one thread and discuss there.

  • CaulDrohnCaulDrohn Member Posts: 1,106


    "Unbreakable and DS are the only perks in the entire game on both sides where you're always threatened by if they have it and thus have to change how you play to deal with that risk or else it screws you right when you need it not to."

    What about BBQ or Nurses calling? You should always expect for a killer to have that.

  • APoipleTurtleAPoipleTurtle Member Posts: 1,275

    DS just needs to be reworked a little to force it to work as an exclusively anti-tunnel perk. The problems with it arise because of how survivors often choose to use this defensively-intended perk in an offensive manner (such as doing gens or hopping in lockers right in front of the killer) because it makes them effectively untouchable for 60 seconds.

    I think Unbreakable could be reined in a bit to reduce its power without severely nerfing it. The biggest thing I'd like to see done to it is making all of it's effects reliant on its single use. Once a survivor has used its ability to stand up from dying state, the enhanced recovery speed should deactivate with the rest of the perk.

    Alternatively, they could just make it work passively to take some control away from the survivor. If a survivor is downed, they can press their active ability button to begin automatically recovering with Unbreakable (at its increased rate). They can recover while crawling during this time, but crawling speed would be reduced by 15% while Unbreakable is active. If they fully recover, they stand up and the perk deactivates for the remainder of the trial. If a the killer picks up this survivor or a teammate begins healing them, Unbreakable turns off (but is not lost). If the killer drops this survivor or a teammate interrupts Unbreakable but does not finish the recovery, the perk can be reactivated 5 seconds after returning to the ground or 5 seconds after the healing stops.

  • MikeasaurusMikeasaurus Member Posts: 2,326

    DS should just be made to work like BT. The killer has to be within a set range for it to activate. It wouldn't be abusable this way, and survivors would at least have some security if they were to be redowned. And if they unhook or repair, then the DS wears off instantly. I wouldn't say healing should remove it though, since that's not really working toward any objective. As for Unbreakable, it's fine as is. It's only usable once and it's gone. Yes, it does boost the revive speed while they recover alone, but even then, if you leave them on the floor and they have it, well that's on the killer for leaving them there. It's always a risk that must be taken with Unbreakable.

  • MrPenguinMrPenguin Member Posts: 1,756

    Idk about unbreakable but DS definitely needs changes. Scott's suggestions seemed pretty good as far as I can tell.

  • PeepoPeepo Member Posts: 108

    Tunnel and camping needs a nerf before topic about Decisive and Unbreakable can even be brought up.

  • MigrantTheGreatMigrantTheGreat Member Posts: 1,314

    Imo 2nd chance perks shouldn't stack with each other. For example, if you get slugged and you use Unbreakable, that should deactivate DS and vice versa.

    The reason why I disagree with Scott's idea is because it'll give survivors a reason to harass the killer instead of playing game, especially the fact that DS has no risk or downsides

  • LetsPlayTogetherLetsPlayTogether Member Posts: 2,117

    Dont play cheap. Problem solved.

  • NekoGamerXNekoGamerX Member Posts: 4,711

    you can't nerf Tunnel and camping just the way people play dev said that ok but DS is busted the locker thing need to go away.

  • JasmineDragonJasmineDragon Member Posts: 372

    I play both sides at high tiers. I will say decisive doesn't need a nerf, per say, but you should not be able to use it from lockers. Its meant to be used defensively, not to charge the killer with and force him to yank you out of a locker or let you waste their time. If you call that a nerf, then fine, other than that, you are insane. Unbreakable is incredibly low tier and used as a comfort perk. I have no idea what you expect from either of these...

  • IronWillIronWill Member Posts: 245

    I am sick and tired of people complaining about "second chance" perks in here. They are fine they way they are. You want the devs to remove them? Fine then give camping, tunneling and slugging a HUGE penalty. Like, for example, it will cause the killer to actually LOSE points for doing so. Hook the same survivor twice? Lose 5k bloodpoints. Slug a player? Lose some BPs overtime.

  • FootMan2893FootMan2893 Member Posts: 232

    That was exactly what I suggested. A change suggested by both the streamer I mentioned and a community manager on the forums. DS can last as long as you want it to and if you want to make it infinite use even, but it needs to be disabled to you start to perform any of the major actions. Healing, being healed, repairing, unhooking, sabotaging, ect. The way they phrased it which I liked was DS is perfectly fine if you honestly just want to not get tunneled, but if you make the decision to put yourself back in the game by performing an action to progress it forward then you shouldn't have protection.

  • FootMan2893FootMan2893 Member Posts: 232

    Slugging is a necessary tactic, and the higher ranked killers who state that DS is stupid are not complaining because they're camping, they're complaining because it's being abused in an offensive manner to turn it into a free 1 minute "you can't touch me" card that you can play when you want.

  • TTVfbYTigTWTTVfbYTigTW Member Posts: 85

    When will people think for themselves? “OMG MISTR STREMR SAID IT SO LETS DO IT. Scott says it is a small pp build.”

    quit it, seriously. When I’ve been in games where there’s no obsession, and therefore no DS, people get tunneled into oblivion. It’s not hard to count to 60 or eat DS. Jesus. If it matters (it must on these forums) I’m a rank 1 killer

  • IronWillIronWill Member Posts: 245

    If slugging is a "necessary tactic", so is its "counterplay" unbreakable.

    A "1 minute you can't touch me window" for ONE survivor out of 4. Just go after one of the other 3 survivors and if you get DS'd in exit gate, just take your loss like a big boy. Other than that I see no reason why the one minute is such a huge deal.

    It feels like your killer mains want ez 4k's every single match, it's mind boggling.

    I don't see any posts of (solo) survivors in here complaining about how many times they die instead of escaping and therefor asking for killer nerfs.

  • TTVfbYTigTWTTVfbYTigTW Member Posts: 85

    It’s this mindset that arbitrarily defines “winning” in dbd into escaping or 4k’ing. Getting a 4K by patrolling hooks, tunneling, slugging, forcing struggle, etc is not difficult. You need to be a decent killer so you understand how to chase, when to leave a chase, how to mindgame, etc.

    But are you “winning?” When I play a killer who sweats for a 4K, I lose all interest in the game. We’re on two different planets. I’ll still play to help my team, it I could care less about escaping

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