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It's insane how easy it is to manipulate this Community



  • Dr_doom_j2Dr_doom_j2 Member Posts: 869

    Lol nice theory crafting dude, those stats were based on the nurse PRE-nerf. But you're the one living and dieing by stats, I'm just telling you that isn't a reliable marker in this game because kill rates can be influenced by certain things such as someone suiciding in the hook, survivors who are red rank that don't belong there (i.e. carried by SWF) but please continue to tell me about this game, it's quite obvious you haven't been playing for that long so you can only justify your opinion on inconclusive stats

    (By the way, the devs themselves said their posted stats should be taken with a grain of salt and shouldn't be used to come to conclusions, but you know better than them I suppose)

  • darwinsbraindarwinsbrain Member Posts: 99

    Theory crafting? Lol. Sorry but you are wrong. The stats are post Nurse changes. I'll post the link again below. Scroll to the bottom of the page to see you are mistaken. Devs have said they use srats to see where things may be overperformjng or underperforming. Been playing the game since the early months of year one, not that it would invalidate my opinions but it is apparently important to you. Should I assume you aren't well educated because you don't understand the importance of statistics in game development? Just saying don't make assumptions.


  • CakeDutyCakeDuty Member Posts: 903

    Exactly this. We all know if Billy was released as a new killer today, he would have some kind of cooldown or drawback on his chainsaw. Billy is an old killer and needed to be updated to fit in with the current state of DbD. PTB Billy got punished too much for using his chainsaw, I'm glad these changes seem to allow him to use it more. Though, I agree that some of his new addons are horribly designed and should definitely be changed.

  • Dr_doom_j2Dr_doom_j2 Member Posts: 869

    No, because I am uneducated. I don't work in-game development, so I was unaware how wrong I was. But YOU knew better. You not only made me realize how stupid I was being, but that I'm irreconcilably a fool.

    Why'd you do that to me? To make me see how stupid I was? Well I see it now. I'll never be able to not see it. Everytime I smell an article of my clothing, I'll be reminded of how I displayed my stupidity in the sun, the musky stench of unwashed ignorance baked and emanating from my faded lucky casino shirt, steeped in my fleshy yet floral aroma of marijuana, mad dog 2020, and BK.

    So I apologise, not that it will mean much at this point. Because I've wasted good life being an idiot, and I've wasted yours arguing my own ineptitude.

  • NursesBootieNursesBootie Member Posts: 2,159

    I'm happy they chabged anything at all. Now he's difficult, not unplayable.

  • azameazame Member Posts: 2,870

    He has a tell when he could use it than he can cancel with no delay and m1 you there is no counter to that and if you want proof we can hop into a kyf xbox one ingot pyramid head. Saying hold w is like saying just kick gens it doesnt give good argument.

  • GoodBoyKaruGoodBoyKaru Member Posts: 19,847

    well considering how i started maining him and suddenly i dont die to him, yeah ill take my "hold w" advice pretty well because it works.

  • Throwaway123Throwaway123 Member Posts: 183

    Yeah billy will surely be "high tier" as they turn him into an M1 killer that occasionally gets a back saw in a dead zone. With a skill that's essentially a loud Demo teleport on slightly shorter cooldown. Even very good Billy mains couldn't make curving and flicking work with how ######### overheat is. And the changes to the overheat are minor at best so the problem will still persist. In addition they nerfed the add-ons that were problems harshly, to less than 50% their effectiveness they used to have and then gave him some trash new add-ons.

    I can't believe anyone can look at this butchering and think he'll be high tier. People who tried him and found any success only used the saw purely for transport and a backsaw in a dead zone. They turned Billy into what is essentially a basic M1 killer and that's a middle ground to you?

  • KoloniteKolonite Member Posts: 1,346

    They changed the numbers. Anyone that was good with Billy still will be good and overheating will barely be a problem. They also implied on the forums that they were going to change his addons after the PTB went live.

    Even if he isn’t high tier, guess what? Meta changes. Play Oni and flick... Wait you have to build up Oni’s power. Why isn’t he at the bottom of the tier lists when he can’t sprint at you and instadowns you 100% of the time. It’s almost like it’s not going to ruin a killer to have a drawback to their amazing power.

  • SocialDistomancySocialDistomancy Member Posts: 1,319
    edited July 2020

    as much as killers deal with a lot of unfair things like object swf, or voice comms with comeptetent groups in general... billy zooming around the map non stop while being able to one hit down constantly on top of that was something that should have been touched a long time ago. It was one of the bs things survivors had to deal with in some maps. I've met billies who didn't need to abuse the chainsaw to 4k, and they won't be affected much if at all really. The changes overdid it, and the devs acknlowedged that and tuned it up to not hit so hard to try to balance it out a bit better. You also won't get interrupted mid sprint, so will be able to finish going where ever you are going with it and finish the journey before cd. It just means you'll have to be more skilled and discerning is all. Not the god of the cornfield or something. Having to be lucky with map rng to deal with it isn't fun.

    The skill bar was really super low on hillbilly, I came back after years, tried out pyramidhead and other killers, got on hillbilly for a chase daily/rift combo and literally chased a guy for minutes and still wound being so present everywhere I 3k and had to let the last guy wiggle out and open the gate after closing the hatch for points because it felt so one sided. That's as an inexperienced killer. He was way too easy to use. I even took my time with them to try to not make it as unfun for them, since you could just be everywhere.

  • Throwaway123Throwaway123 Member Posts: 183

    *Anyone that was good with Billy still will be good and overheating will barely be a problem*

    Anyone that was good with Billy showed that it is a massive problem. The new numbers might bandaid it a bit, but the problem is still there and that problem is turning Billy into mainly an M1 killer and making him less fun.

    *Even if he isn’t high tier, guess what? Meta changes*

    This would be a fine statement if they actually did big meta changes but they don't. The survivor meta has been the same for years and years now. Most killer perks have been the same for a while as well. If they ever did massive overhauls to the game's meta then I'd be fully on board for this statement, but they just don't. A change like this means Billy will remain trash for a good long time, and pray to god there aren't any bugs because Nurse has shown us they don't care to fix them.

    *Wait you have to build up Oni’s power. Why isn’t he at the bottom of the tier lists when he can’t sprint at you and instadowns you 100% of the time.*

    Oni's power has far far far more control than Billys, doesn't bump into walls, can flick, and in the late game after hitting enough people is functionally infinite due to large amounts of blood orbs. Since oni's power has SO MUCH more control to it, it's fine to be temporary because you can chase MUCH easier.

    *It’s almost like it’s not going to ruin a killer to have a drawback to their amazing power.*

    What they're doing is effectively removing Billy's amazing power and giving him a teleport. The only time it can be used to down is for a back rev as it is now. The changes might help a little, but it will likely be largely the same because BHVR sucks at this stuff.

  • F60_31F60_31 Member Posts: 106

    It's insane how much this community complains.

  • MozzieMozzie Member Posts: 618

    There would be no middle ground to find if they didn't try to fix something that wasn't broken. Of all the issues that are in the game right now they decided to spend resources on Billy? It speaks to the leadership of the balancing team at BHVR.

  • MozzieMozzie Member Posts: 618

    Both sides.... both sides of what though? Nobody wanted this. It doesn't make sense. They just needed to fix a couple addons, not break his basekit and replace all his addons with inferior versions.

  • KoloniteKolonite Member Posts: 1,346

    From everything I’ve heard about the new changes it seems like they’re good. Billy has the best map pressure in the game second to one and the chick can teleport. Why should Billy be able to cross the map five times and back rev 4 survivors in a row and the only bit of thought it took was some mind gaming? I’d argue that Oni doesn’t have so much more control when his power is up sure, but Billy has more over the course of the whole game and immediately. Oni can be starved of his power by survivors forcing him to be an m1 killer if they can avoid hits long enough. A bit like how survivors starve Myers of stalk.

    I think overheating should be an after thought and not happen much and it looks like that’s what the devs are going for with the next set of changes. I don’t think he needed the added mechanic, but I can see why they did it and I’m not upset about it. That doesn’t make me easily controlled or manipulated.

    On the survivor meta never changing... That’s more of an overarching design problem with the game. Without innate ways for the game to prevent giving the killer easy wins through tunneling, camping, and slugging they had to introduce perks to counter them. Those perks are always going to be meta until they either nerf them or add more powerful ones and god I don’t want them to add more powerful ones. Nerfs would work, but if they nerfed them too little they would still be overused and if they did it too much they’d be useless. If all killers were exactly the same and just different skins you’d likely see a lot of the same exact build. You already do for some killers.

  • Throwaway123Throwaway123 Member Posts: 183

    *Why should Billy be able to cross the map five times and back rev 4 survivors in a row and the only bit of thought it took was some mind gaming?*

    Why should any killer be able to down someone quickly when all it takes is some mind gaming? Mind gaming is the main portion of this game that makes or breaks who wins. In the same vein that someone skilled with Huntress can down someone fast, it takes skill which balances how fast and how strong it can be. I'd even argue that out of any killer that can quickly down a survivor (Huntress, Billy, Oni, Deathslinger, Plague with corrupt, Bubba) Billy is possibly the one with the most counterplay to his power. Among high level swf players Billy is generally considered low on the high tier list (Scariest being a good nurse but you never see that).

    *Without innate ways for the game to prevent giving the killer easy wins through tunneling, camping, and slugging they had to introduce perks to counter them.*

    Yes this is true, they bandaided the situation and it could use more robust changes. But the more overarching problem with the meta being stale is that nearly every perk in the game is bad. They almost never make perk changes and their perk changes are often disappointing. Take the new changes, Franklin's is worthless, Knock Out is worthless, Lightborn is worthless (past low rank), Tinkerer has some potential. 1/4 changes is decent, not competitive, but decent and could work on a less serious build. So very many perks need buffs and if they did actually buff perks, not make a minor tweak but a good buff, then the meta would shake up and you'd see more builds.

    And at the end of everything, this is what really upsets me. EVERYONE says Billy is in a good spot and well balanced with no changes. EVERYONE says that 90% of perks are not well balanced and need changes. And what do they spend time and resources on? Changing the one top tier Killer that nobody was upset with. Continue to ignore large community outcry including big streamers from both killer and survivor sides saying Billy should stay the same. And make a few token perk changes just for killers that largely will change nothing of the perk meta.

    It's upsetting to see the devs fail to deliver what people can all agree on needs changes, and instead go on a tangent to change something the majority wants to stay the same, likely to appease low rank players while once more ignoring the high rank audience. It's equally upsetting to see people defending those decisions and pat them on the back for stubbornly ignoring the community and charging forward with a change that so very many people oppose.

  • KoloniteKolonite Member Posts: 1,346

    You missed my point. He can traverse the map insanely fast and also instadown and snowball insanely well. It makes complete sense that they would go ahead and give him a nerf like the overheat mechanic. Plague is barely played so I seriously doubt BHVR thinks about balancing her much, Oni already has a cooldown/limiting factor to his ability, and Deathslinger is actually pretty low tier. I wouldn't loop him into a group of powerhouses like that. Huntress has counter play. More counter play than Billy.

    Every perk they changed with this balance was made better. Are they going to get used? No, but that has nothing to do with the Billy nerf or the community being sheeple. They're clearly scared to add any meta powerful perks. The last good perk they added was Thrilling and that was back when Ghostface dropped and it has a cool down that's way to long. I don't think the people realize how difficult it would be for the devs to just change the meta without breaking the game.

    I get that you and a lot of people are upset, but at the end of the day Billy had no limiting factor to his power and the Devs weren't happy about that. They said he was MOSTLY fine, meaning they didn't agree that he was perfectly balanced (as all things should be). If the changes to the heating mechanic are even just decent he'll still be great and just have an additional mechanic to think about. The Billy mains will live.

  • terumisanterumisan Member Posts: 1,293

    I guess because bhvr took a half step back unlike the couple ptb in the past where there were either no changes or nerfs

  • HuffHuff Member Posts: 1,480

    Ha. Another complaint thread. By the same person.

    Glad to see so many people calling this out for being whiny though.

  • SiberiaSiberia Member Posts: 353

    Lol. OP got banned👋

  • terumisanterumisan Member Posts: 1,293

    Time out even by the devs own standards their stats aren't accurate

  • azameazame Member Posts: 2,870
    edited July 2020

    25% which is barely anything except when used with multiple, exhaustion is fine I dont know what problem that you see with it now meat tree you to be significantly bigger so I dont understand your complaint there but Iri heads and legion definitely.

  • RoMainPuppyRoMainPuppy Member Posts: 507
    edited July 2020

    Oh yeah, Billys totally only ever hit people out in the open and never around corners or anything. Billy with infinite chainsaw as long as he didn't hit anything was fine. Billy able to infinitely rev to "mindgame" was fine.

  • KingFrostKingFrost Member Posts: 3,014

    BNP isn't nearly as bad as Styptics. Styptics are way more annoying. I mean BNP's suck if there's four of em'. But one styptic will ruin my match.

  • terumisanterumisan Member Posts: 1,293

    Not a good argument by playing a different killer since the pickrate will increase and will be the next on the chopping block

  • LinkOfSerevillonLinkOfSerevillon Member Posts: 140

    They didnt say he was fine, They said they were happy with the state of him but wanted to add more skill because right now I can as a new player get around the map super fast and can avoid looping since im bad at it when I can just instadown.

    My best killers are billy and ghostface cuz of the instadown but billy more so especially because I can easily camp a hook holding chainsaw so people cant save as itll usually be the only hook i get.

    Compared to other killers I play where everyone will probably escape with billy i can easily get kills. So in a way i think its good that they added a skill thing since I dont deserve to be at rank 6 for killer by any means and only got there cuz of billy being so easy.

  • KoloniteKolonite Member Posts: 1,346

    wasn’t the only argument I made and they don’t only nerf high pick rate killers.

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