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Dedicated Servers, Latency and Windows Hits

aurum_exeaurum_exe Member Posts: 178
edited January 2020 in General Discussions

As a dev, i understand network latency. Really. Even if, with the right algorithm, latency can be predicted and adjusted at runtime, like many online games are doing. Imagine playing a first person shooter, with thousand of projectiles shoot every second, with the same network-oddities that DbD performs. It would be nearly impossibile to headshot. So, these killer "hits" way beyond the windows, after a vault, are getting way too ridiculous. With the right perks, fast vaults works 1/3 time over 10, if you're lucky enough to even vault (sometimes windows don't work at all). So, Devs, if a player have to keep in consideration the latency, what's the point looking at the killer, trying to judge the right distance while in a chase? If you take the decision to vault windows to spare pallets, it's because from your perspective you think you can make it safely. 9 times out of 10 you get hit no matter what, even when the animation is already over and you're already running away from it. That's absurdly ridiculous.

So the question is: why don't invest a bit more resources to fix these things, that annoy your players and are making the game so unfun to play, instead of spending a of money and resources in making "cool intros"? Why don't solve these very annoying and boring things instead to introduce a new DLC every month? Your game isn't working properly do you understand that?

Post edited by aurum_exe on
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Comments

  • forthelulzforthelulz Member Posts: 256

    While it doesn't solve the issues completely it is best to make sure that your FPS is locked to a multiple of 30 that your system can maintain at all times.

    Having a fluctuating FPS, even mildly, greatly exacerbates the issues even more so if they aren't locked to a multiple of 30.

  • forthelulzforthelulz Member Posts: 256

    I said multiples of 30.. which means 30, 60, 90, 120 and locked to one that your system can always maintain because the dedicated servers are running like they always have at 30hz.

  • forthelulzforthelulz Member Posts: 256

    Yeah I hated it so much that you can fast vault with plenty of time, fully land then take 3 running steps and still be hit constantly. So much so that I started trying to figure out the best way to minimize things.

    I found locking frames (either by vsync or otherwise) as well as disabling smoothframes helped me a lot. By monitoring my incoming/outgoing packets and testing various things I noticed that the game in its default settings with with vsync on, using 60hz, and smoothframes left on resulted in my client only "registering" (sending out a packet) ~45 frames/second rather than the steady 60FPS I was showing at all times meaning it was ignoring those other frames as well as making the overtime timing as bad as possible since the server always updates 30hz.

    Turning them off allowed me to constantly send out ~60FPS which helps the utterly absurd issues this game has tremendously but sadly doesn't fix, it is however worth looking into since it is quick and easy to check and fix on your end, and helps enough that I couldn't imagine going back.

  • aurum_exeaurum_exe Member Posts: 178

    @forthelulz That is interesting! You did this config editing \AppData\Local\DeadByDaylight\Saved\Config\WindowsNoEditor\GameUserSettings.ini ?

    BTW, is it normal that a person who bought a game has to figure out how to "minimize" client issues analizing data packets? I mean, kudos to you dude, but if I were the software company I would take a bath of shame for that.

  • forthelulzforthelulz Member Posts: 256

    Use whatever method you prefer and count the incoming packets over the course of 60 seconds while in a match. I like using AppNetworkCounter because it's simple free and easy but there are many ways.

    Server always sends 1800/minute (30 updates per second = 30hz) regardless of what is happening or your FPS.

  • forthelulzforthelulz Member Posts: 256

    I was just attempting to figure out if there was anything possible to improve things and noticed while trying various things, I tried everything from playing @ 30FPS to every combo of other settings just to see what the effects were. I knew that using a multiple of server tickrate would help as well as having a rock steady FPS is also very important, so I worked on that and then I suddenly noticed the lack of packets being sent out from my client. After making sure it wasn't an issue with my network or system I started to try to figure out what would get me ~3600 packets/minute with 60 FPS. Even though my system can handle 120 FPS I find that 60 FPS works better overall although sadly it still doesn't fix everything, but it is much better for sure.

    To disable Vsync and set a frameratelimit you edit bUseVsync= and FrameRateLimit= located in GameUserSettings.ini then save file normally.

    To disable smoothframes you must add these two lines to Engine.ini and then save file normally:

    [/Script/Engine.Engine]

    bSmoothFrameRate=False

  • ABannedCatABannedCat Member Posts: 2,529

    Not only survivors get ######### by dedicated servers, but also killers. Everything is delayed. Especially timing-dependent killers like Nurse or Doctor get screwed by the servers alot. Those 2 were a whole lot more consistent on peer-to-peer.

  • aurum_exeaurum_exe Member Posts: 178

    @forthelulz thank you for the infos. Gonna try that. 😊

  • OperationMintyHippoOperationMintyHippo Member Posts: 406

    @forthelulz well you may have ways to make it better for PC, they do have multiple other platforms that can't operate that way, which means the issue still needs addressed.

  • aurum_exeaurum_exe Member Posts: 178
    edited January 2020

    A temporary solution could be reduce the killer attack cone range in proximity of a window. The fact that the killer mantain the same attack range distance after voult, is something unthinkable. It is like the killer arm is made of gum. Reduce the killer attack cone, just a bit, close to windows and pallets. 5 minutes of C++ code.

  • aurum_exeaurum_exe Member Posts: 178
    edited January 2020

    Latency is predictable!

    https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0167739X08001933

    https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2019/06/190624111038.htm

    "Professor Byungjoo Lee at the Graduate School of Culture Technology in collaboration with Aalto University in Finland presented a mathematical model for predicting players' behavior by understanding the effects of latency on players. This cognitive model is capable of predicting the success rate of a user when there is latency in a 'moving target selection' task which requires button input in a time constrained situation."

    I took the examples of Fortnite for a reason. In Fortnite there are 100 players on a single map. 100! Imagine playing it with the same issues we find in DbD! And DbD has 5 players on one map! 5!!!

  • PrettyFaceKatePrettyFaceKate Member Posts: 1,706

    I have 30-35 ping and my connection is super stable. Code seems to be killer-sided for what concerns hits regardless of ping (getting hit after clearing a window and being rubberbanded back to make it connect, dead harded but exhausted etc.)

    I observed that both as survivor and killer, whereas I was given hits that were delayed and visibly very generous.

    Grabs are a different story and seem very inconsistent, so I don't think either side is favored, but it doesn't occur often enough to be completely sure.

    The implementation of dedicated servers was evidently subpar and probably a rushed decision. They aren't optimized at all and it looks like they simply slapped a server relay between a p2p, with the downside that now we have no idea what our real ping to the opposing side is.

  • ABannedCatABannedCat Member Posts: 2,529

    Its only fair that the code is killer-sided regarding hits, since the killer gets punished way harder for mistakes than survivors do. Imagine if the killer had to lead hits and shots according to ping now. That would make high precision killers like Huntress or Nurse unplayable. Latter of which already gets hurt because powers have a delay as well.

  • TomSandsTomSands Member Posts: 1

    I started to hate playing killers in this game because it was getting too hard on some maps to do it. I used to enjoy it before, but now it is becoming ridiculous. I even tried dedicated servers and I was actually able to find really cheap dedicated servers from GThost. They have everything in their offers for really great prices and I never regretted getting it. That did not help much with the game and now I only play survivor. It is really great when someone comes to play who is a really skilled killer. You get the feeling in your body like you really are running from some killer, but that is rare now. In almost 90% of cases it is easy to survive.

  • danph7danph7 Member Posts: 38

    lol you dont know what "fair" is, do you?

    if they actually coded the game right it latency wouldnt have an issue to either side. Getting hit on the other side of pallets is just as much BS as going for a hit and the survivor "teleporting" just inches away.

    Its not fair...and some killers are meant to be hard to play...I am rank 1 killer and survivor 2000 hrs.

  • FattiePoobumFattiePoobum Member Posts: 293

    No it’s not fair, you are basically saying 5 people payed for a game but only 1 gets to play it optimally.

    lt should be balanced for all players

    also l almost spat my coffee out in disbelief when you said Huntress is a precision killer.

  • DrDeepwoundDrDeepwound Member Posts: 2,007

    Anyone notice they only complain when the latent vaults do not favor them, but the thousands of times a survivor gets a vault and shouldve been hit are countless.

    "So, these killer "hits" way beyond the windows, after a vault, are getting way too ridiculous."

    Just something I notice

  • ad19970ad19970 Member Posts: 3,997

    Now this is what i call a necro post.

  • BangBangBangBang Member Posts: 154

    100%.

    Devs are seriously out of their mind for focusing on improving "fancy" visuals while ignoring all the bugs and technical frustrations.

    No penalties for SWF, insane lags, bugs which never fixed.

    It really shows where devs' motivations are at.

    They don't care customers but only care how their game look, because they think if the game looks cool then it could attract more players.

    Seriously devs, if you ignore improving user experience, what will come is only doom.

  • JPLongstreetJPLongstreet Member Posts: 2,748

    This sounds great! Can't wait to try it out!!

    Umm.... ok............ so how exactly do I do this, er....... with my Xbox1???

  • I only play because of dedicated servers.

    I remember p2p it was a nightmare, every other game was someone basically lagging all around the map.

    I'll take one whiffed attack or BS hit now and then over totally unplayable matches 1/3 times any day.

  • FrekiFreki Member Posts: 1,903

    you do realize the OP did not talk about how to fix the latency? so if person A has the fastest connection, and person C has the slowest and the only way they can "FIX" it is to SLOW the faster connections down artificially to the slowest connection. why can't they speed someone up? because you can't make someone that takes 100 milliseconds and push data to them FASTER than their connection can take, how ever you can delay data going to someone no matter their connection speed. Also didn't talk about how latency changes every second, every minute and depends on many factors that even go beyond 5 players and into the dark area called the internet. can't predict lag spikes from one router detecting a power loss and transferring it's load to another etc. so what are they supposed to do? do you want to have your game slowed down? why not work on something they can truly improve upon.

  • danph7danph7 Member Posts: 38

    post is almost a year old.....

  • FrekiFreki Member Posts: 1,903

    true but the object of the post is valid still today to an extent. I wanted to point out a few things that is misleading in OP before people started to build steam.

  • danph7danph7 Member Posts: 38

    P2P at the beginning was a nightmare...before they switched over it wasnt too bad. You had a connection bar to see your connection to the host...if it wasnt green you left...simple as that. If it was green there was never any issues...so yea, I rather not take BS hits and consider it fine because of lack of competence.

  • danph7danph7 Member Posts: 38

    This is wrong. Its called server side hit validation...its been a thing for over 8 years. You can have a laggy player go up against players with less latency and the server will factor the hits and positioning based on multiple algorithms to keep it pretty much perfectly fair for both sides. SO no they would have to slow fast connections down...they can improve on it...its called investing money in something that they believe wont have as much return as BS MTXs and fancy visuals...in the long run ppl want FAIR gameplay

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