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Ok you know What I have a feeling that most of these complaints about the mm did not read the notes.

snowflake102snowflake102 Member Posts: 2,188
edited August 2020 in General Discussions

We have been running smaller tests of the system on select Xbox One regions for the past few weeks, and the results have been encouraging. The rollout on all Xbox One regions is the next step in testing the system on a wider audience. If all goes well, we are planning on rolling out this feature for all platforms in a couple of weeks.

The next phase that you will notice goes live with the upcoming mid-chapter update: We are no longer allowing Killers to switch their character while searching for a match, or once in a lobby (excluding Custom Matches). This will allow the new Matchmaking System to track player skill with each killer individually and match them against more appropriately skilled opponents based on their killer selection.

To put it simply: If you are great with The Oni but you struggle with The Nurse, you will now be playing against stronger survivors when you play The Oni than you do with The Nurse.

WHAT DOES THIS MEAN?

The most obvious thing you will see when the new system is active is that there will be a greater variation of Ranks in a single match. Rank 1s playing Rank 20s? It’s possible, don’t panic when you see this, as Ranks are not a true indicator of a player’s skill and are no longer used for matchmaking.

Additionally, this system comes with a revamped algorithm for matchmaking as a whole. This should improve wait times for finding matches, and we will continue to tweak this part of the system to improve them further over the coming months.

WHY REPLACE RANKS?

Ranks are not a great way of figuring out how good a player is at the game, because it primarily focuses on “How often you play” and not on “How skilled you are when you play”. Based on our matchmaking studies, there are a great deal of “low” ranked players (15-20) who can easily play just as well as “high” ranked players (1-5), but they simply don’t play enough games in a month to increase their rank before they reset on the 13th. And as an inverse, there are Rank 1 -5 players who perform at levels more typical of lower ranks but they play so many games that their rank is higher than expected. This results in unpredictable games: All five players may have the exact same rank but wildly different skill levels in practice, making matches unbalanced.

HOW ARE RATINGS BETTER?

The new Rating system is focused on measuring a player’s skill and predicting how they will perform against a given opponent. This way we can build matches that are more objectively fair for everyone in the game. We have analyzed over 3 million games (at last count) during our tests, and the matchmaking system is proving to be extremely accurate at predicting the outcomes of matches.

By using this new system, we will be able to place players into more balanced matches more often. When a match is unbalanced, the system will know exactly how unbalanced it is and adjust the player Ratings accordingly.

WHY ARE THERE STILL RANKS?

Matchmaking has been and continues to be one of the hottest topics we hear about, and we have been listening! To get this implemented as quickly as possible, we have decided to roll it out independent of a rework of the Rank system. That doesn’t mean we don’t have plans for Ranks, however! We are exploring different ideas like turning them into a monthly activity tracker and reward system, when we are ready, we’ll communicate more about that.

Comments

  • snowflake102snowflake102 Member Posts: 2,188
    edited August 2020

    The most obvious thing you will see when the new system is active is that there will be a greater variation of Ranks in a single match. Rank 1s playing Rank 20s? It’s possible, don’t panic when you see this, as Ranks are not a true indicator of a player’s skill and are no longer used for matchmaking.


    huh if you did read it. and are upset over this change about ranks. shows your wrong. Because this part clearly says ranks are not not a true indicator of a player’s skill and are no longer used for matchmaking.

  • AceonfireAceonfire Member Posts: 304

    What a long and useless bunch of dribble IMO. BHVR could NEVER figured out how to rank / measure player's skill. NEVER. Every change, failed. Why on earth do you think they have some "new metric" that they've suddenly figured out. THE ONLY difference now is that you can't see just how incompetent they really are now. That is why loads of streamers are jumping ship. You can already tell the logic is broken and not working. There is 0 historical reason to believe BHVR suddenly, "figured it out". It's only going to get worse until they admit they have no idea what they are doing and listen to people who do. When 8-10 5k hour + players say the same thing and are ignored, you know ego''s are the problem. Why most of them don't stream the game actively now.

  • Demonl3yDemonl3y Member Posts: 1,416

    Thanks for that. Its really annoying to read that everyone complains when the devs clearly said ranks WONT USED and says NOTHING

  • Victor_hensleyVictor_hensley Member Posts: 800

    They didn't build Rome in a day.

    Yes, the system is pretty bad, but they are trying to fix it. I know it's the trend to nitpick everything the devs do and to metaphorically crucify them for it, but can you people have patients? This game releases content faster than most other games, and the downside of it is more unintentional problems arising.

    They can't fix MMR in a day, or even a week. It seems like at least 90% of the playerbase has no patients (and respect) for the devs.

    I'm not trying to white knight, I have my very own problems with the devs, and have made it public too. I'm not trying to say there are no problems with the game or the dev team either. I'm not even saying they are being the most professional, but I can tell they are at least trying (even though you have to squint past the negative posts to see it).

    Maybe they were too confident and thought that the MMR system was ready, but they misunderstood it, and you guys kept begging them to release it. It's like arguing with the cook to give them the steak and they just give it to you to quiet down, then you complain about the steak being raw, despite you being the one to rush them.

  • TricksTricks Member Posts: 957

    Not really because de-rank trolls can now abuse the new mmr system so people who should be rank 1's will be able to perpetually de-rank within the new rank system on every killer individually to troll brown ranks indefinitely.

  • edgarpoopedgarpoop Member Posts: 5,050

    Ranks are an indicator of experience. Someone who just bought the game has absolutely no business in the same match as a green rank player, let alone a red rank player. We can repeat the "rank doesn't equal skill" talking point all day, but experience 100% matters. A system can be working as intended and still be objectively dumb.

  • MrMisanthropy66MrMisanthropy66 Member Posts: 167

    It also said in the update post when it went live on all platforms that they have been gathering data for months.it doesn't feel like that was true at all.

  • OrionOrion Member Posts: 21,675

    Ranks are a much better indicator of how frequently that person has played in the last few rank resets than they are of experience. I've been down to rank 20 after an extended break, despite having a ton of experience.

    We should be looking at hours played instead of ranks when it comes to the matchmaking. Right now, if you post a screenshot showing ranks, it'll be dismissed as "not an issue" because that's expected behavior for the MMR. It's like complaining that your lamp is broken by posting a picture of it turned on when the issue is that it keeps turning itself on and off.

  • dugmandugman Member Posts: 5,851


    I agree with looking at hours played. There was another thread for instance where I saw someone posted a screenshot of their game with them as rank 16 or 17 versus higher ranked survivors and complaining. I checked their profile and they had 550+ hours in the game. I commented on that and they said something like "well I haven't played in a while". Sure, I get being a little rusty, but come on dude, I don't care if you've been gone six months or a year or whatever, you'll still play way better than an actual brand new player who is rank 17.

    Also some of these cases seem to be because the system is averaging the ratings of the survivors as a group to pair them up with a killer. Averaging it out means that a high rated survivor teamed with low rated ones will be considered overall a match for a low- to mid-rated killer. That would happen even if ranks were 100% accurate. And this isn't necessarily a bad thing, the game can be close in that case, it's just that the new survivor player(s) will probably do the worst out of everybody while the high skill survivor tries to carry the team.

    But yeah, just posting snapshots of ranks doesn't really so much since people derank intentionally or just by virtue of not playing for a few months. Plus the killer ratings are killer specific so it's quite possible an otherwise skilled killer can have a starting rating that is low for a killer they don't usually play. And finally even if the system works properly you're not going to have a bunch of people posting screenshots of close matches, almost everybody that decides to post is in the group of people who had what they considered a lopsided match.

    If you really wanted to evaluate if the system is working properly or not you need to actually get statistical data over many games which currently only the devs have access to as far as I know. (I do know there's a Steam user leaderboard website where you can view total statistics for any player but unfortunately I don't think it can be filtered down to just a certain date range and view data by match.) Otherwise everybody is kind of just shooting in the dark at how good or bad the matchmaking really is.

  • RizeAkiRizeAki Member Posts: 1,209

    The complaint is the fact on survivor alone I’ve gone 50 games with nothing over rank 20s still

  • PiiFreePiiFree Member Posts: 1,149

    Rank 1 and Rank 20 can be in the same skill level but 4 hours vs 4000 hours CAN'T BE ON THE SAME SKILL LEVEL, yet they still get matched together several matches in a row. There's people here showing several different matches as low rank potato Killer against full red ranks and the other way around.

  • HectorBrandoHectorBrando Member Posts: 2,010

    It doesnt matter the MMR is a blank slate, a newcomer shouldnt be put against someone with 500 hours no matter what, even if they never played the Killer they selected, a M1 Killer with no power and no perks in the hands of someone with that time will totally obliterate people with less than 50 hours, and Im talking about people with 500 hours that are not even that many, if we go to people with 2000 or 3000 hours the thing becomes like putting a regular person against Muhammad Ali in his prime in a boxing ring.

    Actually lets compare this to boxing, you go to the gym, see they give courses for amateurs, you try it, you like it, decide to give it a try, congratulations, your first sparring match is against Muhammad Ali and boy he is in for some really sweaty time and ready to beat you in a way you didnt even know was possible, Im not sure if anyone would keep learning boxing after that first experience.

    The algorithm should have a failsafe to avoid veterans being paired against/with newcomers, especially if they have been collecting data for 1 or 2 months like they say.

  • SloppyKnockoutSloppyKnockout Member Posts: 1,505

    It wasn't supposed to be a blank slate. BHVR told us they were collecting MMR data MONTHS ago to prevent this discrepancy from happening. Now you can't even get them to acknowledge that they said that, cause their know it's horse #########.

  • LordRegalLordRegal Member Posts: 1,429

    I'm not going to mention rank once in this comment. Instead, I'm going off of my experiences with the games, since if rank is meaningless all that matters is the experience.

    Wraith, alongside Legion and PHead, have been my most played killers since I came back to the game shortly after Slinger released. I played all three very frequently (obviously PHead the least of the three since he's newer). Conversely, I did not touch my old main, Nurse, as I didn't feel up to regaining the muscle memory.

    All three of them I was facing competent survivors who knew how to play against them (I was outright embarrassed as Pyramid Head a few times specifically).

    My first game as Wraith after MMR hit, and I had people who, even after they knew I was Wraith, they didn't look around them. Had two of them hiding behind a hill and didn't run until my TR came back. Had one of the players, on death hook and injured, take a "protection hit" for someone I'd picked up right next to the hook this happened at.

    My first Legion game after MMR hit, and I had survivors going down from mending timer, I had survivors thinking lockers were a safe thing from killer instinct. Another total slaughter.

    My first PHead game wasn't quite that bad, but definitely people who didn't know how to even attempt a fakeout to get me to use my power. An easy game if not as painfully easy as the other two.

    I tried Nurse for the first time in months, and got fairly competent survivors. Scraped a 1k but felt fairly embarrassed to have been running my P3 skin.

    So, if MMR is functioning as intended, and tracking our abilities for months ahead of time, why then did the three killers that I played frequently get relative babies, and the killer I haven't played in a long while got something closer to what I expected MMR to get me?

  • snowflake102snowflake102 Member Posts: 2,188

    I did not say anything about ranks:) I just showed you skills don't matter.

  • snowflake102snowflake102 Member Posts: 2,188

    I just beat a mix of red and purple as a rank 17 killer yesterday :) so the skill does not matter :)

  • PokPok Member Posts: 100

    To the people saying to look at hours played, you would be disappointed. I have 640h and I can't loop properly to save my life. I've never been past rank 6 as a killer, or rank 3 as a survivor (and that was when I was playing a lot), and overall I feel the most comfortable at purple ranks for survivors and green for killers. And I have friends with more hours than me who are even worse. I guess I am better than someone with less than 50h, but this is not a way to rate skill..

    That being said, I agree that the current system is terrible. it's true that ranks are not used anymore for MMR, and they have many problems, but right now, when I'm facing red ranks survivors, I can feel that they have red ranks skill.

  • lucid4444lucid4444 Member Posts: 682

    "huh if you did read it. and are upset over this change about ranks. shows your wrong. Because this part clearly says ranks are not not a true indicator of a player’s skill and are no longer used for matchmaking."

    That's what you said. You're talking about ranks. At this point I can only hope you're trolling.. otherwise this is just embarrassing.

  • ZeidoktorZeidoktor Member Posts: 941
    edited August 2020

    It occurs to me that, in these early stages of MMR, Rank does mean something as it is still indicative of where you were when the MMR began. Someone who got their way up to Rank 1 didn't stop being Rank 1 on Monday, and a baby Rank 20 is as baby a Rank 20 today as they were five days ago.

  • KaitsjaKaitsja Member Posts: 518

    The least the developers could do is acknowledge that there is a problem with the new MMR, rather than remain silent. It doesn't need to be some big grandiose announcement of what they're working on, etc. Just a simple acknowledgement that there's a problem, and they're working to rectify it.

    Right now both killers and survivors of different skill ranges aren't having fun, and when people aren't having fun, they stop playing and move onto greener pastures.

  • RetroRetro Member Posts: 16

    i think they should replace old rank indicator to Player level

  • snowflake102snowflake102 Member Posts: 2,188

    i completely agree with you guys now and i take everything back it is broken!!!! so are they working on a fix?

  • KilmeranKilmeran Member Posts: 3,116

    Mandy Talk and Gay Myers have admitted in other threads today that MMR is not functioning as they intended it, the Dev team is looking into it as a priority, but unfortunately it's all they can say right now. I.e. no ETA on any fixes.

    Gay Myers also replied to a thread at the DbD Steam Forums saying the same thing as they did here.

    So, they've finally admitted it. As to when it will be fixed, if it is ever truly fixed? Well, this is BHVR, so who the hell knows.

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