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Scott brings up a fair point.

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  • KingFrostKingFrost Member Posts: 3,014

    System not working as intended seems pretty obvious, since they said they tested it on XBOX One, and I don't remember a lot of people on here complaining that matchmaking on XBOX one was HORRENDOUS during that time period. So I'm thinking there may be some bugs involved, or MMR got reset or something.

  • HagIsBestGirlHagIsBestGirl Member Posts: 158

    Hey remember literally last week when the pitchfork mob couldn't see their auras?

    I swear 90% of us just go have a snack when the game goes weird.

  • bobateobobateo Member Posts: 254

    My experience is limited, but for what it's worth, the new system is worse. I hadn't played long before MMR, but as a survivor (felt better for trying to learn the basics) I'd sometimes get matched with either groups of survivors way more experienced than me and/or killers who were. Still, that felt like the exception and not the norm.

    With MMR, it leaned heavier, as a survivor, to either lvl 1 killers or lvl 20 killers with very little in between. Since I was halfway through my first tome, I decided to switch to killer to finish out the other pieces.

    All I can say is WOW - every game I played as a lvl 20 killer, completely new to killer and a player with less than 50 hours in the game, every single match was at least 3 red ranks and a purple (sometimes green). I had one match with 3 lvl 1 survivors. There's not even anything to 'learn' from matches that extreme.

    They happen too fast to develop much in the way of map familiarity.

    "Chases" are almost non existent because of the lack of perks to compete with the survivor perks and still learning how to utilize a killer's power.

    There's no chance to learn to 'apply map pressure' beyond the very basics.

    Getting even a single hook felt like a victory, but a sad one.

    I'm sure the experience was just as bad for the people who had to play against me and I thank the ones who were cool about it in the after game chat.

    But the tl;dr here is that if 'new' killers are expected to slog through 10+ games *with each killer* to even begin to start getting matches that come close to their skill level, it's really going to turn off new killers. Their powers work fairly differently from what I can tell and it's going to take some experimentation for most people to find what suits them. But they can't even tell what suits them in matches like that.

    I can only imagine what it's like for the vets to have to deal with it.

  • Kumnut768Kumnut768 Member Posts: 789

    everyone knew it, if mmr failed we had the same issue

    if it worked then zero variety in the game and it would die

  • Devil_hit11Devil_hit11 Member Posts: 1,863

    I mean they need factor in rank. rank 20 is not the same as rank 1 and properly measure skill.

  • HalunHalun Member Posts: 177

    He was bitching and moaning about it even before it released.

    "Valid feedback" lol.

  • ObscurityDragonObscurityDragon Member Posts: 710

    Stop.

    When you read the posts with the ranking system it was clear that almost everyone was asking for a new MM system

    And they did just that, they Tryed to figure something out for a unique game design in term of MM.

    I just think they didnt gave it enough time to collect datas

  • ephellonephellon Member Posts: 15

    I'm still baffled they don't use Devotion level (overall player level) to match players... It's the exact same as colored ranks (the more you play the higher your level) but it takes so long to get them, you should be at a reasonable level of understanding whether playing killer or survivor. A D5 (Devotion 5) should not be going against a D0... One of those players has more time and understanding of the game.


    Devotion levels that should match together:

    - D0-D2 (beginner)

    - D3-D6 (novice)

    - D7-D10 (intermediate)

    - D11+ (expert)

  • Allivath_ChaosAllivath_Chaos Member Posts: 41

    I couldn't see this working. I've been playing this game for over a year and am only devotion level 1, and I can tell you I'm not a "beginner" at this game whatsoever. You'd run into the same problem, possibly even worse than using rank was because it takes forever to level up devotion if you don't play this game for hours on end daily. That and at least rank took *some* skill to earn. Someone who is a complete potato at this game who just enjoys playing it alot would end up in "expert" matchmaking just from playing a lot yet not ever performing well in a match.


    Edit: typos

  • holliieemholliieem Member Posts: 1

    I main survivor, not competitively, just casually. Literally jumped into a killer game for one of the first times yesterday, rank 20, got paired with rank 1's and 2's. Just doesn't make the game enjoyable anymore.

  • SocialDistomancySocialDistomancy Member Posts: 1,319

    so play killers you were either afraid or turned off of touching before for easy matches, thanks Opie

  • Sinister0208Sinister0208 Member Posts: 252

    They have been collecting data for months. Didn't they say 3 million matches analysed at the last count?

    I am not against a MMR system, just the way they implemented it (no one asked for this system in particular). Bugs and other issues still persist and some new ones like console FPS is horrendous right now after the latest patch.

  • Sinister0208Sinister0208 Member Posts: 252

    Scott made videos prior to the MMR implementation - when it was just being discussed.

    Problem is if Scott can see the issues beforehand why can't the devs. No thought seems to have been given about protecting the ranks 20s from rank 1s. Split killer MMR without a higher base rating is silly - switch killer and a rank 1 can play rank 20s.

  • ObscurityDragonObscurityDragon Member Posts: 710

    From what i understood theyre been looking for monthes of the MMR system and data collecting system would work, but they only collected data with the update where your killer is locked.

    Yes bugs afe still there but thats another story

    I think the Mmr could be great but just came live too quickly with not enough data for eveyone/every killer

  • Red_BeardRed_Beard Member Posts: 550

    Do you follow stock analysts at all? Half of them say the stock market is going to lose points, they other half say it will gain points. The side that was correct always says "see, I told you this would happen". Then all of the people that follow them say "see, he told you this would happen". Funny though, I rarely see them step up and say they were wrong when they were.

    A large part of the community was asking for a change. Just because one content creator (or a few if you want to tell me there were others) say they don't think a proposed solution will work, doesn't mean they shouldn't push out new systems. As a business, you cannot afford to never change. You also can't wait until each change you want to implement is perfect, because it never will be. But you should expect that whatever system they put in has continuous improvement. In not even one week of the MMR system going live, it seems based on what I have seen from a couple moderator posts, that they are already working to improve the system. One week. That is an extremely fast response to a new change.

  • Sinister0208Sinister0208 Member Posts: 252

    New players are the life blood of any game - of course they are going to change it as they are the ones being shafted most. Whether those changes will be enough that remains to be seen.

  • immortalls96immortalls96 Member Posts: 4,652

    Mmr has a place..its just having a few unintended effects..its still I'm its infancy

  • clem1710clem1710 Member Posts: 275

    This guy is boring as hell stop please

  • Red_BeardRed_Beard Member Posts: 550
  • korean_zombiekorean_zombie Member Posts: 442

    It is an ez way to triage experience levels. I think it’s a darn good suggestion on your part.

  • Terra92Terra92 Member Posts: 583

    Pretty much. Outside of the forums and a few streamers that seem to affect the forums more than others, the general attitude towards the game is super positive.

  • kingoftheirish1992kingoftheirish1992 Member Posts: 159

    Really couldn't care less about Scott pushing his opinion as fact. Most of his videos start with " this is how I feel " for most of it to be why he thinks he is right about it. Dedicated servers is way better then person to person even if grabs don't ever work. Just because you say something doesn't mean your wrong or right. Most don't mind something unless it happens to them.

  • LetsBeFriendlyLetsBeFriendly Member Posts: 18

    Let's put this in perspective. A killer main players a killer they use very little compared to others but still know get paired with survivors who have just started, barely started or first game ever. I will not acknowledge ranking anymore because everyone, including devs, have admitted that ranking doesn't mean anything anymore. I as a rank 1 survivor, was paired with rank 12 to 15 for most of my matches getting an occasional rank 5 to 8. MMR has done nothing but cause problems and half the time it doesn't even work. I have to willingly sacrifice myself so a killer can get a kill or be the only one who lives because my teams ranks are just like the killer's. Its unfortunate but until the devs listen to their community, nothing will change.

  • C_FrankC_Frank Member Posts: 179

    I agree that there is a problem with the MMR. For both killers and survivors we don't always find games with people of the same skill level. The first days were worse, but still the new system is more imprecise than the old.

    As Scott says, that you do not play with that killer but have experience with others, you cannot be treated as if you were a total inexperienced. I think the system failed and the DEv did not come out to recognize it, generating all this climate of mistrust and anger. Clearly something wrong. An example was today, 4 games with the same players 4 red ranks. the first 3 killers were good, 2 or 3 hooks 3/4 escapes per game. The fourth game played with a rank 12 trapper, which didn't have much exp or skill. He disconnected by completing 4th gen without hooking. It is not understood why the mmr after clearly winning 3 games easily gave us a killer of worse skill. Being the same players.

  • dugmandugman Member Posts: 7,736

    Scott is right in the video that the matchmaking incorrectly pairing up top tier players against groups of brand new survivors is pretty bad. He's also probably right that the reason it's happening is that the initial seeds for some top tier players are, for some reason, not correctly incorporating their prior game history and are instead being set to whatever rating brand new players get.

    Scott is wrong though when he implies in the video that this is a problem with MMR in general. It's not, it's clearly a glitch in how this system was supposed to work. The MMR dev posts and follow-up Q&A all mention how your initial rating for a given killer is supposed to have a baseline that is on par with whatever your ratings are for other killers that you've recently played. That this isn't the case doesn't mean "MMR is bad for the game", it means the devs accidentally have a bug somewhere that isn't seeding people properly initially. Or possibly that the ratings are correct but there's a glitch in the matchmaking routine that is supposed to pair people up by their ratings. It's not a fundamental problem with MMR in general, though, if the system were working as the devs described this issue of top tier players versus rank 20s wouldn't exist.

    MMR itself is -not- bad for the game. What's bad for the game is this -specific implementation- they pushed to the live servers that's not working as they described for some people.

  • malloymkmalloymk Member Posts: 1,405

    Hasn't even been a full week yet. Sheesh.

  • Johnny_XManJohnny_XMan Member Posts: 5,845

    This is not the final iteration of the MMR system, so why are we so quick to judge as if it couldn't be changed?

    My only guess is that you guys must have not ever had to use the trial and error method where you try something and then have to make adjustments when it isn't working as intented.

    @Veen hit the nail on the head, those two pictures represent this community in a nutshell.

  • KSzerkerKSzerker Member Posts: 112

    They took a problem (poor matchmaking) and made it worse... why shouldn't players voice their frustration?

  • DehitayDehitay Member Posts: 1,723

    What's with all this "not working as intended" talk? As far as I can tell, the system is working exactly as intended and that's what the problem is. Having all killer mmr be completely separate was a bad idea that a lot of people pointed out and still happened. Separate to a degree makes sense, but all killers starting out at baseline instead of the average killer mmr for the player was an idea that implemented no foresight.

    Also, am I the only one that get slightly bugged when Scott keeps saying mmr is starting at 0? I know what he means, but it kind of distracts from his point.

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