Less that totems in a map
Nerf NOED only if DS get nerfed
Decisive Strike is only a problem if you allow it to be, or if survivors abuse the power it provides. It is not a fundamentally badly designed perk.
Disagree with the "you shouldn't be punished for your team"
If you did 4 totems and your team did nothing. Most of the time you'll already have "won" through pipping
Escaping is a team effort though so imo yes if your entire team ignores the secondary objective then you as a team should be punished even if you as a player did 80% of that objective by yourself
Your team should have difficulty to escape if only 1/4 of players play smart.
I do agree that it sucks as the player that did all the work
I think it should be disabled if survivor is doing objective, healing, doing gen, rescue etc..
Tell me how was this fair
Because they do 3-4, not 5.
"Don't get hit" is not a 'counter' to anything because you cannot judge when you get hit or not.
That's like saying don't let them get hatch if they have a key.
So, someone like me who uses DS as protection to heal up should be punished because some survivors like to take advantage of some killers greed? I admit that it sucks to see people do it, and if someone tries to take advantage of me like that, they die next.
Also, since when is FAIR a factor, when tunnelling is fine? So many killers don't give a flying care about what's "fair" to a survivor, but do a complete 180 when something happens to them.
Does what happened to you suck? Yes. But I don't see how that compares to NoED and it's problems being core to gameplay, rather than a community based issue.
Doing bones is just what the killer want you to do. It's a waste of time. Just note where the totems are in your head and if NOED triggers check the totem(s) you remember, if it isn't any of them just open the gates and leave.
I am not complaining about NoED directly. I am saying that "Just do bones" is not a valid response for complaints about it. Nice try.
You are not in the chase if you can heal, you can hide while doing so. You also have BT that is also anti tunneling perk. Imo DS can be 5 minutes long, but if you do objective it should be disabled, like old ruin did. Survivors also don't care about killers fun, but you also have perks do prevent NOED..
"Don't punish the many for the actions of a few" was indeed the type of message I was going for there. DS Abusers are a small group of survivors, and it is annoying to hear people complain about them constantly.
I did also acknowledge the fact that perks like Small Game exist, but did also say that as a solo player I am almost forced into using other perks to deal with other issues, such as tunnelling and slugging, and Small Game didn't make the cut.
Hope also doesn't let you pick yourself up off the ground and go to full health.
Yeah, I can go unnoticed. I got to red ranks as a stealth player, back in the days of original Ruin, so yes. I can go throughout an entire game without being chased, or if I am, I don't go down or hooked. Usually I'll get done just after the final generator is complete or if the killer catches me at the gate.
Pig's RBT is indicated to an entire team, not to mention a cascade of problems to kill someone. Plague's Cleansing has audio queues not to mention isn't actually a horrible idea now that she has one fountain available base. Some times I also need to take a breather away from the killer, especially when I've been chased for a while and need to heal.
I never said that NoED was the only perk to create bad habits. Just that it does for KILLERS. As someone who also uses DS for it's intended purpose, I can indeed say that it isn't as bad as how NoED influences killers.
The line after the "just don't tunnel, camp or slug" line was literally about it being terrible and hypocritical advice in an attempt to bait people into saying "it's not that simple".
I did adapt, I did evolve. I don't even care about IF I live or not, but what I hate is the terrible "advice" that keeps on getting perpetuated across these forums. This is not about the perk, this is about how we as a community tell each other how to deal with it.
I wouldn't say small, I play in red ranks where it's always abused, but that's my experience. Killers don't have a single perk to prevent DS or Unbreakable, now put that in 4 survivors. I think NOED still shouldn't get nerfed at this pace of the game right now.
How a discussion aiming about solo survivors struggle with bones became a decisive strike debate. SMH.
No one escapes death is a very awkward perk.
Coming from someone who runs a lot of endgame builds (which typically requires you to let endgame happen) so I will talk about it in a purely endgame standpoint. It's a perk that usually won't net you more than one kill if you're up against smart people.
Most smart survivors will either just leave once they realise you have it or go immersed looking for it until it gets destroyed.
As for perk yes it could completely snowball in the right circumstances but it looks also do very minimal to outright nothing.
Honestly when it comes to the Perk I would suggest a couple of things.
1,) Allow totem counters on survivor related perks like small games or detective's.
2) change no one escapes death so it's not at endgame park but conditional this way you would have to achieve a certain conditions for it to spawn making it more reliable on The Killers end and would feel more fair on the survivors end as the killer earned it.
3) keep it as an endgame perk but change the buffs it gives you they would still have to be powerful considering it's a hex that is not active for most of the game but you could pick something different from exposed. For example something similar to a fully stacked save the best
Aite lemme breakdown your counter argument.
1- But, EVERY game, the killers entire objective is down and hook you, so 100% of the time DS and BT and Unbreakable and other stuff are ALWAYS viable. You might go a whole game without using DS, but, the killer might have seen the obsession in the bottom corner and assumed you had it so lost pressure avoiding you on purpose to go for somebody else, it's always a constant threat.
2- There are, two killers out of 20 that have a CONSTANT one hit down ability so in 1/10 of games this applies. Adrenaline saves half a minute that you would have to spend healing, and can be very brutal in a SWF. It also gives you a sprint burst.
3- In a team game the individuals will always be punished by their teammates under-performing that's why "you're only as strong as your weakest link" is such a common phrase IRL. Unfortunately that's just how it is, you're going to have teammates that just rush gens, That's not even a bad thing, because NOED doesn't just give you a down, you still have to earn it, you can still be looped.
4- You are right here, it does create bad habits and it can completely turn a tide of the match. But, only until a certain rank. At green rank you might safety with the one kill NOED gets you, but as you get into Purple/red you will start depipping with just one kill obtained from NOED, at which players will have to start looking at themselves. NOED is a perk designed to help new players who are in a unfortunate situation which can be abused by higher ranked players, just like all the crutch things on the survivor side.
5- By that logic, Thrill of the Hunt is unbalanced because survivors have to go out of their way to prevent the perk. It's a secondary objective. Which is why all Hex perks are risk/reward. Survivors may do no Totems so you get maximum value out of Ruin/Lullaby/NOED etc etc or they actually do something other than rush gens like doing totems.
6-Alternatively just bring a map and whatever perks you want.
I am by no means a killer main, I play both equally and don't really have a problem with NOED, and when I do play survivor I play solo 90% of the time.
NOED is one kill
If someone got smacked and you see the hex notification pop up, just leave. That's what I do anyway. NOED carries bad killers because survivors are too worried that their hooked teammate will scream at them in the post-game chat, so they go for the unhook and it just results in 2 kills. Maybe it can work if you have BT AND the guy is hooked next to the gate, but even then it's a gamble.
Just to counter a few argument with some slightly jokey but still not wrong statements
With all that said I would still like to see a nerf to NOED/DS just probably not as big as one you would like.
Yeah, I agree with pretty much all of this. I don't think NOED is overpowered but I do think that it's a poorly designed perk.
Cleansing totems on solo queue is just not worth it unless you have a build for it (which is also dumb). Just focus on gens and deal with it after it's active.
Overall, you are just whining. You didn't talk about why NoED is bad or stuff, you just said "If you pick NoED, don't complain about DH or DS or BT or Adrenaline". Was this your point ? If so, its a stupid point. All of these 4 perks are second chance perks that give the survivor 4 more chances, meanwhile if the killer has 1 second chance perk (the only killer second chance perk) thats bad ? And the perk doesn't even activate until the end of the game. You are just complaining that killers get another chance while survivors can get 4.
No problem with NOED (from a survivor main). It does feel cheap at times but to be honest, the whole game does at certain points.
Also, the bones argument is very valid. Instead of spending time breaking every totem you see, try only breaking hidden ones, that way you won't waste your time breaking them, and they'll be easy to check at a later date.
I don't even think a totem counter is necessary either. The whole power of NOED is that it makes survivors waste time looking around to check totems. Aside from that, there's no reason it should grant a killer more than 1 extra kill (2 at a stretch). Adding a totem counter is basically killing the perk.
Again, this is from the pov of a survivor main (ex killer main)
It's about the excuse "just do bones". Not NoED as a perk.
Just add a totem counter. The only problem is that solo players don't know how many totems their teammates cleansed.
I hope this is a joke, if u think this is tunneling I don't know what to say, am I not allowed to get downs fast anymore? Lol man, if you are not joking you are delusional as it gets
When someone is coming up with a topic like this, why do people always argue that the other side also has potentially unfair stuff? Why not just stick with the topic?
Its not about DS or Unbreakable, its about NOED. It might be true that DS can be unfair aswell and should be adressed, but why use it as a "counter argument" for Noed?
Same with the endless Mori / Key discussion. "Key is fine because other side has Mori". 😩
He is obviously joking there.
While NOED is unhealthy for the game and isn't an ok perk, doing bones is a fair counter. If you have detective's hunch, do a totem after every gen, and you'll be helping your team a lot. Survivors don't need 4 perks.
English is not my first language so I'm sorry if I can't see sarcasm here, there are many people who aren't joking and type stuff like this
People don't have an actual reply so they try to change the subject. There are those who have actually put forth valid counterpoints that I will address, when I'm available to do so as they will take a while and faster when I'm not on my phone.