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I Did Bones. You Need A New Excuse.

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  • MapersonMaperson Member Posts: 1,634

    Nerf NOED only if DS get nerfed

  • PigMainClaudettePigMainClaudette Member Posts: 3,842

    Decisive Strike is only a problem if you allow it to be, or if survivors abuse the power it provides. It is not a fundamentally badly designed perk.

  • MapersonMaperson Member Posts: 1,634

    I think it should be disabled if survivor is doing objective, healing, doing gen, rescue etc..

    Tell me how was this fair

  • GoodBoyKaruGoodBoyKaru Member Posts: 18,589

    "Don't get hit" is not a 'counter' to anything because you cannot judge when you get hit or not.

    That's like saying don't let them get hatch if they have a key.

  • PigMainClaudettePigMainClaudette Member Posts: 3,842

    So, someone like me who uses DS as protection to heal up should be punished because some survivors like to take advantage of some killers greed? I admit that it sucks to see people do it, and if someone tries to take advantage of me like that, they die next.

    Also, since when is FAIR a factor, when tunnelling is fine? So many killers don't give a flying care about what's "fair" to a survivor, but do a complete 180 when something happens to them.


    Does what happened to you suck? Yes. But I don't see how that compares to NoED and it's problems being core to gameplay, rather than a community based issue.

  • SkeletalEliteSkeletalElite Member Posts: 2,008

    Doing bones is just what the killer want you to do. It's a waste of time. Just note where the totems are in your head and if NOED triggers check the totem(s) you remember, if it isn't any of them just open the gates and leave.

  • PigMainClaudettePigMainClaudette Member Posts: 3,842

    I am not complaining about NoED directly. I am saying that "Just do bones" is not a valid response for complaints about it. Nice try.

  • MapersonMaperson Member Posts: 1,634

    You are not in the chase if you can heal, you can hide while doing so. You also have BT that is also anti tunneling perk. Imo DS can be 5 minutes long, but if you do objective it should be disabled, like old ruin did. Survivors also don't care about killers fun, but you also have perks do prevent NOED..

  • PigMainClaudettePigMainClaudette Member Posts: 3,842

    "Don't punish the many for the actions of a few" was indeed the type of message I was going for there. DS Abusers are a small group of survivors, and it is annoying to hear people complain about them constantly.

    I did also acknowledge the fact that perks like Small Game exist, but did also say that as a solo player I am almost forced into using other perks to deal with other issues, such as tunnelling and slugging, and Small Game didn't make the cut.

  • PigMainClaudettePigMainClaudette Member Posts: 3,842

    Hope also doesn't let you pick yourself up off the ground and go to full health.

    Yeah, I can go unnoticed. I got to red ranks as a stealth player, back in the days of original Ruin, so yes. I can go throughout an entire game without being chased, or if I am, I don't go down or hooked. Usually I'll get done just after the final generator is complete or if the killer catches me at the gate.

    Pig's RBT is indicated to an entire team, not to mention a cascade of problems to kill someone. Plague's Cleansing has audio queues not to mention isn't actually a horrible idea now that she has one fountain available base. Some times I also need to take a breather away from the killer, especially when I've been chased for a while and need to heal.

    I never said that NoED was the only perk to create bad habits. Just that it does for KILLERS. As someone who also uses DS for it's intended purpose, I can indeed say that it isn't as bad as how NoED influences killers.

    The line after the "just don't tunnel, camp or slug" line was literally about it being terrible and hypocritical advice in an attempt to bait people into saying "it's not that simple".


    I did adapt, I did evolve. I don't even care about IF I live or not, but what I hate is the terrible "advice" that keeps on getting perpetuated across these forums. This is not about the perk, this is about how we as a community tell each other how to deal with it.

  • MapersonMaperson Member Posts: 1,634

    I wouldn't say small, I play in red ranks where it's always abused, but that's my experience. Killers don't have a single perk to prevent DS or Unbreakable, now put that in 4 survivors. I think NOED still shouldn't get nerfed at this pace of the game right now.

  • VeenVeen Member Posts: 706

    How a discussion aiming about solo survivors struggle with bones became a decisive strike debate. SMH.

  • VolfawottVolfawott Member Posts: 3,876

    No one escapes death is a very awkward perk.

    Coming from someone who runs a lot of endgame builds (which typically requires you to let endgame happen) so I will talk about it in a purely endgame standpoint. It's a perk that usually won't net you more than one kill if you're up against smart people.

    Most smart survivors will either just leave once they realise you have it or go immersed looking for it until it gets destroyed.


    As for perk yes it could completely snowball in the right circumstances but it looks also do very minimal to outright nothing.

    Honestly when it comes to the Perk I would suggest a couple of things.

    1,) Allow totem counters on survivor related perks like small games or detective's.


    2) change no one escapes death so it's not at endgame park but conditional this way you would have to achieve a certain conditions for it to spawn making it more reliable on The Killers end and would feel more fair on the survivors end as the killer earned it.


    3) keep it as an endgame perk but change the buffs it gives you they would still have to be powerful considering it's a hex that is not active for most of the game but you could pick something different from exposed. For example something similar to a fully stacked save the best

  • ACTIV3_GNASHERACTIV3_GNASHER Member Posts: 75

    Aite lemme breakdown your counter argument.


    1- But, EVERY game, the killers entire objective is down and hook you, so 100% of the time DS and BT and Unbreakable and other stuff are ALWAYS viable. You might go a whole game without using DS, but, the killer might have seen the obsession in the bottom corner and assumed you had it so lost pressure avoiding you on purpose to go for somebody else, it's always a constant threat.


    2- There are, two killers out of 20 that have a CONSTANT one hit down ability so in 1/10 of games this applies. Adrenaline saves half a minute that you would have to spend healing, and can be very brutal in a SWF. It also gives you a sprint burst.


    3- In a team game the individuals will always be punished by their teammates under-performing that's why "you're only as strong as your weakest link" is such a common phrase IRL. Unfortunately that's just how it is, you're going to have teammates that just rush gens, That's not even a bad thing, because NOED doesn't just give you a down, you still have to earn it, you can still be looped.


    4- You are right here, it does create bad habits and it can completely turn a tide of the match. But, only until a certain rank. At green rank you might safety with the one kill NOED gets you, but as you get into Purple/red you will start depipping with just one kill obtained from NOED, at which players will have to start looking at themselves. NOED is a perk designed to help new players who are in a unfortunate situation which can be abused by higher ranked players, just like all the crutch things on the survivor side.


    5- By that logic, Thrill of the Hunt is unbalanced because survivors have to go out of their way to prevent the perk. It's a secondary objective. Which is why all Hex perks are risk/reward. Survivors may do no Totems so you get maximum value out of Ruin/Lullaby/NOED etc etc or they actually do something other than rush gens like doing totems.


    6-Alternatively just bring a map and whatever perks you want.


    I am by no means a killer main, I play both equally and don't really have a problem with NOED, and when I do play survivor I play solo 90% of the time.

  • SnowbawlzzzSnowbawlzzz Member Posts: 1,121

    NOED is one kill

    If someone got smacked and you see the hex notification pop up, just leave. That's what I do anyway. NOED carries bad killers because survivors are too worried that their hooked teammate will scream at them in the post-game chat, so they go for the unhook and it just results in 2 kills. Maybe it can work if you have BT AND the guy is hooked next to the gate, but even then it's a gamble.

  • Reaver_RazielReaver_Raziel Member Posts: 400

    Just to counter a few argument with some slightly jokey but still not wrong statements

    • "...DS and Unbrekable are used with the hope they never activate" thats funny because most killers prefer when they dont have to use NOED as well. They prefer that gens dont get done and that they win before that.
    • Survivor perks, items, offerings in general need to be weaker than the killers otherwise the game would be insanely unbalanced. Survivors being able to bring 16 perks in total and the killer only being able to bring 4.
    • Its a team game, to a point. You first and foremost have to look out for yourself. Sometimes you have to consider is me bodyblocking the killer to down my team mate, and probably going on the hook instead, better than them doing it. Like if they already have 2 hooks and you have only 1 or none at all, you should probably help. But if you are both dead on hook you should probably just let them die. This game is basically balanced around you being punished for your team mates mistakes. 3-genning because the team decided to do 4 gens next to each other and ignore the other half of the map. Being teamed with bad survivors that go down instantly and dying before 2 gens get done. People doing Haunted Grounds. Myers 99'ing off your team mates, finding you and 1-shotting you. On and on.
    • Agreed. Except the skillful part. Im sure some think like that but those people are dumbasses. Most people accept its a safety net, they even call it a second chance perk. But hey if the killers wont adapt the survivors should, forcing the killers to adapt because they start losing big time.
    • I dont think I get this part. A lot of the time where DS and BT is annoying is when you trade hooks. The one being unhooked comes back and tries to unhook the person who just traded hooks, and is "immortal" while doing so. And a lot of the time the survivors "abuse" the perks by being in the killers face with BT,DS and an unbreakable. Forcing the killer to GO OUT OF THEIR WAY to either hit them and get nothing do to BT, grab them and get DS'd, or down them after they unhooked the first guy, and now the cycle restarts. Except 2 people now have DS up and available and maybe unbreakable as well.
    • Yeah well, that usually not a big deal. Unless you happen to play with a lot of survivors that like to play with mediocre builds (thats me btw, I love me some detectives hunch) then most survivors bring BT, DS and unbrekable at least in some capacity and if the killer respects one then he respects all. If he eats one DS he usually learns his lesson.

    With all that said I would still like to see a nerf to NOED/DS just probably not as big as one you would like.

  • arslaNarslaN Member Posts: 1,936
    edited August 2020

    Yeah, I agree with pretty much all of this. I don't think NOED is overpowered but I do think that it's a poorly designed perk.

    Cleansing totems on solo queue is just not worth it unless you have a build for it (which is also dumb). Just focus on gens and deal with it after it's active.

  • ErkErk Member Posts: 230
    • NoED gets equipped so that it doesnt get activated too ? Which killer wants to see all gens being done ? It's just a "Plan B".
    • Adrenaline is a really powerful perk, it doesn't matter if its temporary or not, it still comes in clutch since with that speed boost there is no way the killer can catch up to you. Just because its temporary doesn't mean its not a powerful perk.
    • Exhaustion perks create bad habits. Why learn how to loop better when you can just press E to Dead Hard into the pallet ! Meanwhile, there is a perk that is not activated until the end of the game where the killer gets a second chance ! You play with 3 perks the entire match and survivors can still complain about a perk that has no use until the last minute of the game.
    • What ? Doing totems are not survivors "going out of their way". Thats basically another objective ! You should ALWAYS look for bones, who knows, the killer might have Devour Hope.
    • NoED is chewing up a perk slot until the end of the game, if you want to counter it easily you should too.

    Overall, you are just whining. You didn't talk about why NoED is bad or stuff, you just said "If you pick NoED, don't complain about DH or DS or BT or Adrenaline". Was this your point ? If so, its a stupid point. All of these 4 perks are second chance perks that give the survivor 4 more chances, meanwhile if the killer has 1 second chance perk (the only killer second chance perk) thats bad ? And the perk doesn't even activate until the end of the game. You are just complaining that killers get another chance while survivors can get 4.

  • LlamaArmourLlamaArmour Member Posts: 75

    No problem with NOED (from a survivor main). It does feel cheap at times but to be honest, the whole game does at certain points.

    Also, the bones argument is very valid. Instead of spending time breaking every totem you see, try only breaking hidden ones, that way you won't waste your time breaking them, and they'll be easy to check at a later date.

    I don't even think a totem counter is necessary either. The whole power of NOED is that it makes survivors waste time looking around to check totems. Aside from that, there's no reason it should grant a killer more than 1 extra kill (2 at a stretch). Adding a totem counter is basically killing the perk.

    Again, this is from the pov of a survivor main (ex killer main)

  • PigMainClaudettePigMainClaudette Member Posts: 3,842

    It's about the excuse "just do bones". Not NoED as a perk.

  • NoShinyPonyNoShinyPony Member Posts: 4,570

    Just add a totem counter. The only problem is that solo players don't know how many totems their teammates cleansed.

  • MapersonMaperson Member Posts: 1,634

    I hope this is a joke, if u think this is tunneling I don't know what to say, am I not allowed to get downs fast anymore? Lol man, if you are not joking you are delusional as it gets

  • xEaxEa Member Posts: 2,972

    When someone is coming up with a topic like this, why do people always argue that the other side also has potentially unfair stuff? Why not just stick with the topic?

    Its not about DS or Unbreakable, its about NOED. It might be true that DS can be unfair aswell and should be adressed, but why use it as a "counter argument" for Noed?

    Same with the endless Mori / Key discussion. "Key is fine because other side has Mori". 😩

  • MusicNerd_TCMusicNerd_TC Member Posts: 3,099

    While NOED is unhealthy for the game and isn't an ok perk, doing bones is a fair counter. If you have detective's hunch, do a totem after every gen, and you'll be helping your team a lot. Survivors don't need 4 perks.

  • MapersonMaperson Member Posts: 1,634

    English is not my first language so I'm sorry if I can't see sarcasm here, there are many people who aren't joking and type stuff like this

  • PigMainClaudettePigMainClaudette Member Posts: 3,842

    People don't have an actual reply so they try to change the subject. There are those who have actually put forth valid counterpoints that I will address, when I'm available to do so as they will take a while and faster when I'm not on my phone.

This discussion has been closed.