Well to be fair Otz can get 4ks using no perks or meme builds on any killer, he's a god among killers.
Also you replied while I was editing my post above, but your times are a bit off. You forgot to include the chase times. It would be something like 20-30 seconds to get the down and 10 seconds to carry to hook followed by 120 seconds of camping = 150-160 seconds. In 160 seconds the three survivors can literally do 5 gens to within a few seconds of completion (80 seconds for the first three solo, a few seconds for two to move to other gens and do the other two solo after another 80 seconds.)
I will say this, though, I think Bubba is a strong killer in chases now since his buff. He wasn't THAT bad before so buffing him made him pretty solid. Doesn't have much to do with camping per se but it does help him get that down or two to camp.
My issue is if he gets an early down, also Bitter Murmur shows the aura of all survivors for 10 seconds once the final gen is done. I saw him abandon a hooked survivor to down 2 who were going for the exit gate, knowing that I was very far to be able to reach the already hooked survivor.
And about my timings, yes every match will be different but even with the best outcome he will secure 2 kills, unless survivors manage to pull off a flashlight save or unhook themselves with ds, unbreakable, and soul guard.
There are plenty of killers who can play like this and get a 2k, it’s just a very small portion of players who actually bother playing like that.
He played like 7 games. He didn't 4k every game. I don't remember it all but he had at least a 2K in there. Some of the 4ks were the survivors hook bombing for the save instead of just leaving when they had the chance or literally just trolling in one of the games.
Literally the only reason it works is because Survivors are too stupid to just leave.
Since you remember it, remember when the survivors gen rushed him and he still managed to get a 4k thanks to bitter murmur and noed?
"And this is if he goes against a really good SWF team"
No thats just insanely wrong. Thats what happens when you go against 4 good solos or a standard 4man SWF. What happens if Bubba goes against a good 4 man SWF and decideds to Face camp? He either gets 0 kills or only 1. Because after the first down its not 1 gen that gets done. Its 3 gens and now they only have 2 gens and the exit gates. Good survivors can keep a killer like Bubba occupied a long time, especially when he is running 2 perks that wont help him at all before the game is over. Bitter murmur does [BAD WORD] all for a Camping Bubba. Besides at the end game. Same With Noed. Insidious might be used to help him vs 4 solos but beyond that nope.
So yes the counter is still just do gens. Why do I know this? Because I tried it out since people keep whining about it. Yes vs solos you are guaranteed 2k at least, unless you are unlucky and the guy you decided to go for is a slippery eel or the tiles spawned in the survivors favor. But vs even mediocre 4man SWF you aren't guaranteed anything with this playstyly. It might be 4k, but most likely its only gonna be 1k at best.
TL;DR Git gut and do gens
Yeah but he also didn't fuckin 4k every match and a number of those 4k games could've been easily 1 or 2K.
Camping's success relies solely on how bad the survivors.
Also you're referencing someone who's commonly heralded as the best killer in the game. Even Otz and Tru3 will say really no killer is viable against a top team except for Nurse/Spirit. Throw Otz in there against a top SWF team with his old camping Bubba and he'd probably maybe get 1K if he could even get a down.
Lopped for 3 gens? Are you serious? This is a typical scenario for you? 3 effing gens?
ok.... what about people who already have all the perks on all the characters that they care about?
What about the people who got face camped. they aint getting any points
What about the people who didnt get face camped. no chases and no healing means no pip and no bloodpoints.
What about having a good game fro both sides? standing around staring at the hook isnt really playing the game, nor is hanging on a hook for 2 minutes.
What about the solo queues?
But what could they possibly do to prevent it? And not making it unbalanced? What if survivors are rushing hooks, or swarm around it? If I see two of you I'm not gonna pretend you aren't there, in the mean time if two of you are there you are not doing objectives and you are encouraging that player to stay close to the hook. Like I said before I'm against camping, but if it's going to get fixed they should do something reasonable.
Oh, yeah, I'm not disputing he'll probably get 2 downs if he plays it right, 1 at worst if they pull off a save on someone. But that's definitely still a loss, he'll almost certainly have a low score (maybe not as low as the poor survivor he killed first but still really low) and also not a win by the 3-4 kill standard either (or the pip standard for people who care about those since he probably would lose a pip too.)
On a tangent this sort of discussion makes me wish Dead by Daylight actually had an official web page with dynamic stats you could look up for average points and kills per game for all the killers or survivors or for perk usage, etc. Aside from them posting a stat blog every six or nine months we don't really have any solid numbers to go by when talking about things like, for instance, how good is Bubba doing nowadays compared to other killers? It's all kind of guess work without being able to look at actual statistical data.
Lol what do bones than he gets 1 kill instead of 2 if u get downed by a camping leather face you just need to git gud.
Man face camping with bubba is just dumb now he is actually viable. Plus he is funner to play regularly now too than he was before. No respect for facecamping bubbas.
-Borrowed time is the safest possible option if you want to unhook
-It's a joke
-Do you know what Kindred does?
-Peanits is a dev who sometimes interacts with people on the forum
I know you’re most likely joking, but no, we shouldn’t send death threats to other players.
This is an excellent question. If anything were implemented to diminish Bubba’s ability to defend a hook, bum rushing of the hook would increase because “what’s he gonna do about it??”
He can move during the tantrum
There are various intuitive ways.
One I like and worked is deliverance, BT and DS.
Obviously you need Deliverance activated but a bubba was face camping so I unhooked, got downed and bubba hit the unhooked guy but they had BT so went back for me and back to face camping.
I just Deliveranced in his face, got downed again but he picked me up and do DS and escaped.
I suppose for a 4th perk could use unbreakable (if they think you have DS) or dead hard when you deliverance.
Above is situational but worked for me 😃
It's not just Bubba, it goes for all killers, you can't just give free unhooks like that, I don't like camping but sometimes you must do it, if they find reasonable way to do it I'm all for it
I could deal with face camping bubba before, but now that he can curve around anything, he's a nightmare.
The last time they tried to fix camping, it was abused by survivors in a way that made it extremely OP, similar to how old legion would moonwalk to make deep wounds go down while still chasing you.
I do agree that camping and tunneling need to be fixed with a gameplay mechanic, but it needs to be done in a way that isn't exploitable, or, if it is, the game is rebalanced around in order to make it not awful for the killer.
With the buff, not even the survivor with endurance can escape. Good thing, because that tell people a lesson, to not count on your cheap 2nd chance perks.
Another point no one has mentioned yet, is that - at red ranks - as a survivor it is absolutely essential to engage the killer. You get horrendously penalized in terms of both bloodpoints and match points for strictly doing objectives. Engaging Bubba favors the killer, but engaging Bubba that has equipped perks specifically for basement play is automatic suicide.
I cannot count how many times I actually managed both Iridescent Lightbringer and Unbroken only to end up with 12-13k bloodpoints at the end, because my interaction with the killer was minimal. Typically this scenario would unfold as such: you spawn in a far off corner of the map by yourself(like autowreckers for example), right next to a generator (ex. shed gen). If you jump right on it, and the killer does not get to you before the 45% mark, the gen is yours and you will get it done. Furthermore, if the killer is not nearby, you will likely not cross paths afterwards because they will either encounter another survivor on the way or already be moving in opposite directions/ towards another gen (ex. gen popped by a 2-3 other survivors). If you get to second closest generator and start working on it, half of the time another survivor will engage the killer in a chase in the meantime, often times allowing you to even finish that 2nd gen by yourself. (At this stage, with 3 gens done already you may have 215 lightbringer emblem points for gold, but only 2500 BPs earned). With 3 gens done, 4th likely about to pop as well, your hand is forced to start hunting the killer, to not blank out evader completely, and also diversion points for Iridescent Lightbringer. Getting hooked may cost you one point in Unbroken but that gets balanced out by Evader and LB bonus. It also tends to make your teammates content as it allows them to get a unnook/heal Benevolent points.
Now, Bubba - in its current incarnation, and combined with Insidious et. al for Basement play - can move into the basement right at the start and stay there until someone comes by, because it is not possible for every survivor on a team of 4 red ranks to get enough lightbringer points for anything above gold: 4 single , 1 co-op repair always leaves at least one odd player out; they may try to get to another gen for points but they will be competing against a co-op gen with a head start. 5 totems may be up for grabs, but unless cleansed earlier, and NOED equipped there is a huge risk associated with not getting at least on one of the exit gates.
So to sum it all up (and here I will assume that gens got shared somewhat evenly and everyone got Gold, even if there may often be one odd man out with only silver after 5 gens pop):
3 (Lightbringer) + 4 (Unbroken) + 1 (Benevolent) + 0 (Evader) = 8
Ranks 1-4 safety requirement = 9
Now Bubba, sitting in the basement, knows that every survivor at red will de-pip across the board if they all simply escape. However, if they get just 1 of the 4 survivors to venture into the basement, they know they got them. It is not possible to escape Bubba that has 3 charges that has the benefit of moving/winding-up first (they will likely be standing still with Insidious, and because thats Bubba basement play). The basement hook will lead to a penalty in Benevolent preventing safety even for purple ranks, and this cycle can doom all 4 survivors if the first hooked survivor does not just cut the cord, when the situation calls for it.
If this type of killer behavior is not a form of holding the game hostage, then I don't know what is. One simple mechanic would be to allow for Benevolent points for every survivor that happens to still be alive when the exit gates are open. Adding +5 Benevolent points for every survivor would get you just enough for Silver but not enough for Gold Benevolent, allowing for safety for survivors, and a massive, massive penalty to every killer attempting this tactic.
I’m talking about once it ends and he becomes an m1 killer for a few seconds
Rarity doesn't confer non-issue status.
Well devs surely act like that
So camping Bubba turns killer gameplay into survivor gameplay, eh?
They had one or two chases in the match, stood in one place, maybe holding a button and interacting with no one, made the other side's game a bore/frustrating and then out perked the survivors in the end.
Interesting how that works...
In all seriousness though, there should be some sort of action speed buff related to hook proximity under certain conditions, so survivors can finish gens quicker if a teammate gets hard facecamped like that. Maybe if the killer refuses to leave the hooked person the buff gets faster and totems get their aura revealed too. It will give time to do gens and do bones.
I like NOED as an andgame boost. it can be especially devastating when you're actually good and pressure survivors during the match. But its waaaay too passive. I think NOED should apply exposed only to survivors you've hooked throughout the match and for every survivor hooked you get 1% bonus speed at the end for a total of 4%. That way you can't just be useless all game and then expect NOED to help secure kills at the end, but it still remains a high risk, high reward hex totem that gives you a power boost at the end.
No, actually, but their own admission and behaviour they clearly change the most common issues first, regardless of the ease that others could be addressed.
Not on its own, yes. But rarity together with impact. If a rare situation is actually game breaking, it needs to be considered. But a face camping bubba is surely not, thats not a bug / glitch, no bannable offense, it's just an unfavored playstyle. So as I said, it's rare to play against a bubba face camping from the start, its extremely rare to play against a player that ALWAYS face camps with bubba, and on top of that, the player is not even doing anything wrong.
The op more or less asked for a technical solution to prevent the extremely rare all-the-time face-camping bubbas from playing the way they are doing. And thats exactly the non-issue I'm seeing. I already doubt that there is even one player always playing face-camping bubba on a regular basis, bc thats just extremely boring and a waste of time.
The solution would be Borrowed time not being melted with several ticks from the chainsaw. As it is the invisibility frames from borrowed time do nothing against his chainsaw.