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Compare both side's best perks

Removing 20 secs of 1 gen with a restriction vs 120 seconds of invincibility.

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Comments

  • RakimSockemRakimSockem Member Posts: 1,251

    But jokes aside...... that's a bs comparison. First of all, idk any survivor perk that stays active for 120 seconds so you lost me there. I'm assuming you're talking about DS which only lasts 60.

    Second, you seem to be operating under the premise that DS is the best survivor perk. It isn't. I can think of a list of survivor perks that I would/do run over DS.

    Borrowed Time

    We'll Make It

    Inner Strength

    For the People

    Saboteur

    Lithe

    Kindred

    (DS fits around here for me. This is where I would run DS if I ever got tired of any of the perks listed above)

    DS is totally dependent on the killer you're going against. People who have DS never get to use it against me when I play killer. Know why? Because after I hook someone, I go after the other 3 people in the game. The only time I'll hit someone who was just unhooked is if the survivors do it in my face, and that's just to either get rid of borrowed time and make them mend, or put them on the ground. But I'm not going to rehook them, I'm chasing someone else.

  • tactictactic Member Posts: 336
    edited August 2020

    DS only activates once per survivor and can be avoided via slugging

    PGTW can be activated, at most, up to 11 times (or 12 but at that point the game is over)

  • GoodBoyKaruGoodBoyKaru Member Posts: 6,449

    Survivors' don't have meta perks that have requirements that need to be worked on/

    *Proceeds to list Adrenaline, a perk that has a requirement that has to be worked on to activate*

  • dugmandugman Member Posts: 1,322

    To be fair, Pop Goes the Weasel is a little bit of a “win more” perk in that it requires you to be getting downs and survivors then being chased off gens before completion in the first place to capitalize on it. If you aren’t getting downs and losing it helps you a bit less then when you are already winning. In contrast Decisive Strike helps you when you are losing and getting downed so it’s triggering when you need it the most. It doesn’t trigger as often as Pop but when it does it’s always a nice momentum shift to help you maybe pull out of a losing situation.

    Don’t get me wrong, I love Pop because kicking gens is fun and this is a nice bonus slowdown effect. But there are some rational reasons why a few top players say they think it’s a little overrated compared to perks that more directly help you get downs in the first place, because getting downs will always be the best way to slow gens.

  • RakimSockemRakimSockem Member Posts: 1,251

    Before I even go in on how ridiculous this sounds, what is the difference between "conditions" and "requirements" to you?

  • RakimSockemRakimSockem Member Posts: 1,251

    If a perk depends on the playstyle of the opposition AND can only be used once, it is not inherently a good perk.

    Playing against someone who ignores the 3 other people on the map to tunnel you? Sure it's a great perk for those lovely people (trying not to name call but I think very lowly of players like that)

    Playing against a killer like me who will see you, know that you just got pulled, and intentionally ignore you to go after someone else? DS is useless.

  • YaiPaYaiPa Member Posts: 1,928
    edited August 2020

    requirements=breaking pallets for spirit fury/hooking someone to get pop or bbq, unhook someone first to use deliverance, cleansing a totem to use inner strength,

    conditions to be met=being slugged to use unbreakable, being injured to use dead hard or being stunned to use enduring. Perks that gives you advantage just because yes, there's not a reason why but: you can get yourself up for free, or break pallets faster, and so on..

  • YaiPaYaiPa Member Posts: 1,928

    the effect of adrenaline is so absurd, being multiple perks at once, that kinda nullify its requirements.

  • xEaxEa Member Posts: 2,389

    Alright, lets compare the BEST killer and survivor perks.

    Killer perks: Pop, Noed, Discordance, BBQ

    Survivor perks: Borrowed Time, Desicive Strike, Unbreakable


    What is the most significant difference between those perks? Right! You get value out of Killer perks all the time, while you only get any value from survivor perks when the killer is tunneling/camping. On top of that, many good killer perks encourage you to search a different target and leave the hook + pressure gens.

  • RakimSockemRakimSockem Member Posts: 1,251

    So by your definition, why did you list Ruin as a perk that has a "requirement"? You don't have to do anything for ruin to activate, it just does.

    And like the other person said, Adrenaline requires that you complete all 5 gens.

    And then you didn't list BT, but that perk requires you to be in the killer's terror radius which can be negated by so many things (Tinkerer activating, a stealth killer going back into stealth mode, a killer like Deathslinger or Hag with a small terror radius being just far away enough, Insidious, whatever the Plague perk is where hitting the obsession makes you lose your terror radius, being asleep against a Freddy which is still BS, etc)

  • OllieHellhunterOllieHellhunter Member Posts: 669

    How do you get value out of discordance if the survivors split up on gens? How do you get value out of Pop or BBQ if you don't get a single hook? How do you get value from NOED if either you win before all gens are finished or if a key is used?

    I'm not saying you should get any use from them in these situations but saying you get value from them all the time is just disingenuous.

    and how does Unbreakable require the killer tunelling/camping? I use the perk almost every game yet dont get tunelled or camped most these times.

  • YaiPaYaiPa Member Posts: 1,928

    ruin is a hex, you cleanse it, ruin is gone. That's the requirement, having still the totem lit, great advantage for sure, but still a hex.

    as said adrenaline is so strong that its requirements are kinda nullified, it should be the same logic behind hexes, high risk (not being sure to gain advantage from it) high reward, but its rewards are too good.

    as said, bt has no requirements, only conditions to be met, i. e. being in the killer's TR. You can give as many extra hits to the people you save as you want, as long as you're in the killer's TR.

  • RakimSockemRakimSockem Member Posts: 1,251

    LOL what? So having a totem exist which is not something you have to actively do is somehow a requirement but everything I listed for BT which is something the survivor has to actively be away of when using the perk is a condition???

    By this new logic you're running (which is totally opposite of your original definition), I can say that being on the ground and not being picked up by the killer is my requirement for unbreakable, because if the killer picks me up, my perk is gone. Just like you saying if a survivor cleanses it, the perk is gone. That doesn't negate the fact that the perk works without you putting in any effort to make it work. You can't just change your definition because the perk can be removed.

  • YaiPaYaiPa Member Posts: 1,928

    no. You need to keep the totem lit, if it's cleansed it's gone, that's the requirement, keeping an eye even onto something else than gen and survivors. If the killer picks you up, the perks can still be used, as long as you're on the ground. If ruin would work without the totem requirements then sure, it would fit in the that category, but that's not the case.

    I guess you're confusing the passive advantages that ruin gives without you doing anything specific than keeping the survivors off gens, with its requirement.

  • MadLordJackMadLordJack Member Posts: 4,576

    Because you can combine it with No Mither and ascend.

  • OllieHellhunterOllieHellhunter Member Posts: 669

    If you're going that OP you may aswell bring Self care and Inner Strength too.

  • MadLordJackMadLordJack Member Posts: 4,576

    To be fair, DS isn't hard either. It's just an Overcharge skillcheck, and you can easily use it aggressively, or simply not equip it and get psychological value.

    They're both pretty game-changing perks, but one works slowly over the course of a match and the other instantly turns a situation around.

  • xEaxEa Member Posts: 2,389

    Cant remember a single game where i have not got any pop, BBQ or Discordance value at all.

    But Unbreakable, DS, Borrowed? In most games i dont need any of them, unless the killer is playing shady. Then they work as intended.

  • OllieHellhunterOllieHellhunter Member Posts: 669

    I don't run Pop so can't really speak for that, however it would be possible to get no use from it if you couldn't hook a single survivor, the game would be lost already if that were the case however it still would give no value.

    BBQ you always get the extra bloodpoints so I was wrong to mention that.

    Discordance however I've had games where it didnt go off a single time because the survivors were simply organised and spread out.

    Unbreakable you still didnt say how it requires the killer tunnelling/camping. but I will add that you can bait the killer into slugging you by convincing them you have DS

    And I didn't take issue with your claims about DS BT requiring tunnelling/camping because while they can be forced, the actual concept is related to tunnelling and camping, so not sure why you brought them up again

  • xEaxEa Member Posts: 2,389

    True you can have no hooks and get no value out of pop. But when we go that far, then every perk can have no value? Deja Vu? Could be blind so i dont see auras anyway. Corrupt Intervention? Could be afk because i had to take a piss.

    BBQ you always get the aura read aswell. And if you dont, you still have info

    Discordance. Does not have to go off. You still get info by knowing that not 2 or more people are on a gen.

    Unbreakable: Killer does not need to slug you, he can just pick you up and put you on the hook, which is pretty common that a killer hooks a survivor where i play.

  • ZezryoYTZezryoYT Member Posts: 28

    Honestly Killer perks are ridiculously overpowered for example

    Devour Hope and Thrill of the hunt combo:Instantly Down after having survivors unhooked far enough away 3 times no less and when 2 more happen instant Mori even if someone didn't get hooked before

    Franklin's Demise:I lose my item now really? What is the purpose of making the item literally delete from the match.

    There's more but those stand out

  • terumisanterumisan Member Posts: 1,152

    What's the best killer perk? The best survivor perk is ds


  • Reaver_RazielReaver_Raziel Member Posts: 400

    Sure, but thats a bad way of comparing them.

    Pop. In your own example It buys 11 * 20 = 220 seconds or 3min and 40 seconds. And thats at best. Where every single Pop is used. A bit of an extreme example but ok. I mean I dont remember ever using even close to that many pops but fair enough lets go with that.

    DS. Someone gets unhooked, the killer decides to tunnnel. The survivor loops the killer for 20-30 seconds(gonna use 30 for my "extreme" counter example), goes down, gets picked up and DS the killer. Now the killer is stunned for 5 seconds, 1-2 of which the survivor gets off the killer and runs for the next tile. Loops for lets say another 30 seconds, uses Dead Hard and goes for a loop or 2 more, drops the pallet goes to next tile and maybe 30 seconds longer goes down. Yes this is an extreme example, but as I said killers rarely use all their pops because usually a survivor either gets found and chased or the gen gets finished. Thats 1 DS that cost that 1 killer 1-2min game time there are possibly 3 more.

    Now as for counter plays, well besides Freddy just teleporting to the gen most of the time cooperating on a gen can get it done faster than the killer can get to it with pop. Thats at least my experience. And slugging is countered by Unbreakable a common combo.

    Now is this to say DS is op and Pop is not. No not really. I would say pop is definitely one of the strongest killer perks if not the strongest. And I would claim the same for DS, at least at the moment. Because the example I usd required the killer to tunnel. Most games it doesn't even require tunneling it just requires the survivor with DS to go for unhooking or taking the killers attention and jumping in a locker.

    I would argue for buffing the anti-tunneling aspects of the perk and nerfing the ways it can be "abused". But we'll see, what the devs do. Apparently they have already said they will try to make it less obnoxious to vs.

  • terumisanterumisan Member Posts: 1,152

    You forgot to mention the method of activating both perks where in order to even get value out of pop you need to get downs but with ds there is no requirement outside of getting unhooked via others or themselves


  • RakimSockemRakimSockem Member Posts: 1,251

    Also full pause? Does OP know that DS can only be used once per match? I don't think they do and that concerns me XD

    where is this 120 seconds coming from??? I'm perplexed

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