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DS isn't even a Top 5 Survivor Perk

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Comments

  • SylorknagSylorknag Member Posts: 760

    You just proved how absurdly broken the perk is.

    Killers will respect even thought you don't have it.

  • NekoGamerXNekoGamerX Member Posts: 3,618

    for me I hate ds when egc starts I also hate head on more then DS I feel like it troll perk.

  • Johnny_XManJohnny_XMan Member Posts: 3,283
    edited August 2020

    @Sylorknag

    I slug in my matches doesn't mean I respect it. Just means I am countering it.

    Slugging is good whether the person has DS or doesn't. This is why there is a good amount of high rank killers who do it, and why things like DS are actually healthy for the game. Because when I play killer I can apply pressure by simply leaving someone on the ground. It is guaranteed pressure. This is why I don't mind if the player has DS+ UB because to them those are just perks that might or might not even proc. because they are too situational.

    You can slug for as long as you want too. You aren't restricted unlike DS. You have an entire match's worth of time, DS only has 60 seconds.

  • SylorknagSylorknag Member Posts: 760
    edited August 2020

    You said yourself that you slug in your matches.. and then proceed to say that unbreakable/ds are too situational lol I rest my case.

  • WaffleyumboyWaffleyumboy Member Posts: 7,318

    Killers don't need to tunnel to win, nor is it possible to tunnel good survivors even without BT or DS. Stop applying rank 15 logic to the balance of the entire game kid.

  • Johnny_XManJohnny_XMan Member Posts: 3,283
    edited August 2020

    @Sylorknag

    Right. I did, because it was relevant to the conversation.

    It doesn't mean that slugging = respecting anything. It means it works as a pressuring tool + counter to DS. Consequently if you don't tunnel off the hook, you no longer have 60 seconds to slug, so chances of Unbreakable procc'ing are limited to that survivor. Unbreakable procs once, Slugging on the other hand can be done EVERY SINGLE TIME you want to put pressure on survivors.

    I don't get what your case is.

  • WheresTheGateWheresTheGate Member Posts: 450
    edited August 2020

    I am a survivor main and can only speak to this from that perspective. I have tried using DS on multiple occasions. I forced myself to use it for a month straight at one point because I kept reading on this forum how it was so powerful. The only thing DS ever did for me was ensure I got tunneled after using it 90% of the time. The only time it ever gave me any real benefit is if I managed to use it while the gates were open and it bought me enough time to get out. I think that only happened twice.

    The overwhelming majority of the time I utilized DS the killer would ignore everyone else completely until I was dead. I realize not everyone will have the same experience as me. But from my experience DS is simply the guaranteed to be tunneled perk.

  • Johnny_XManJohnny_XMan Member Posts: 3,283

    @WheresTheGate

    Because contrary to popular belief it isn't even a good anti-tunnel perk. The perk doesn't render the killer immobilized or something, it merely stuns them, and they can still see the direction in which you are headed.

  • WheresTheGateWheresTheGate Member Posts: 450

    Exactly. That's what I'm trying to get at. I have never understood why it's so popular on one side and so hated on the other. From my personal experience it doesn't prevent tunneling. As a matter of fact the chance of being tunneled goes up by many orders of magnitude in my experience.

    My survivor rank got worse using it because I got tunneled way way way more than I ever did before.

  • Johnny_XManJohnny_XMan Member Posts: 3,283

    @WheresTheGate

    Mostly everyone who has a problem with getting stunned will tell you that there is a strong loop nearby, that they had Dead Hard, that they were getting gen-rushed etc etc. To try to justify the strength of the perk. Because without an actual situation like that, the perk isn't that strong at all.

  • WheresTheGateWheresTheGate Member Posts: 450

    From my experience I completely agree. I mess with different perks just to try them out. I recently equipped left behind for 10 straight matches. In 2 of those matches I was able to find hatches I likely wouldn't have found otherwise. In 10 matches it provided as much benefit to me as DS did using it a month. That's saying something when you consider left behind is a perk that is only useful if you are the last survivor left. If you aren't the last survivor left it's a waste of a perk slot.

  • ScottJundScottJund Member Posts: 861

    That might be the weirdest defense I've ever read. "It doesn't render the killer immoblized, it just stuns them, which renders them immobile." ???

  • ScottJundScottJund Member Posts: 861

    I'm sorry on what planet can you not get to a loop with 20 seconds of distance?

  • Johnny_XManJohnny_XMan Member Posts: 3,283

    @ScottJund

    Idk, try the maps which have no loops around where the stun happens or pallets nearby.

    I'm sure you have enough hours to have played survivor and understand that.

    The reason I stated that people on here present a very specific scenario to try to justify the strength of the perk is because they always come up with the most 'out there' survivor-sided situations, that it is laughable to me when on the flip side of it, if the survivor didn't have DS they would have found themselves in a very bad situation because of how lackluster some set ups are. (especially after they have nerfed the amount of pallets and moved set ups around).

    PS. When I said "immobilized" It was a sarcastic way of saying "invincible" which is the word that many love to use here. Because in reality DS doesn't give you invincibility. It doesn't render the killer unable to down you.

  • ScottJundScottJund Member Posts: 861

    I just massively disagree its a "very specific scenario" that you cannot find a loop within 80 meters of you. That's ridiculous. There's almost no situation where that happens.

  • Johnny_XManJohnny_XMan Member Posts: 3,283
    edited August 2020

    @ScottJund

    To each their own.

    I have found maps that start out being bad (Meaning killer-sided) because the set ups are an L-T wall next to a Z wall. Not saying it happens all the time.

    All I am saying is that, people who try to sell DS as this "invincibility tool" are also proposing that every single scenario (When DS is used) is against them. Which isn't entirely true either.

  • BaldursGate2BaldursGate2 Member Posts: 795

    It's still the most used survivor perk. UB is not used even half the time DS is used and even fewer times together.

    This illusion of 4 man with DS + UB happens maybe 1:200 games in red ranks, it's just not a common combination. They rather use dh / iron will / self care. Do your own research and you will see it too.

  • RakimSockemRakimSockem Member Posts: 1,253

    The only map that's even remotely close to what you're describing is maybe the cornfield map with killer shack in dead center and all the pallets and jungle gyms are on the outside of the map or maybe Shelter woods

  • azameazame Member Posts: 2,870

    You could say the same thing on slinger his psychological effect on survivors is so strong he can zone by existing. I'd DS wasnt like that survivors would be deleted in the first 2 minutes.

  • azameazame Member Posts: 2,870

    Thays something I have noticed as well it's always specific scenarios that always have the killer being in an extremely unfavorable position. I think the perks balanced tbh. We can always have old DS if killers wanna complain.

  • Raven014Raven014 Member Posts: 4,188

    Killers, by default, are reactionary to survivor decisions. The ones that break this mold (Nurse, Spirit, Doctor, Freddy, Deathslinger, and PH to a degree) are often despised by survivors, but they can be stronger because of it.

    DS is really strong, and insanely flexible in its use. Not only this, but it can turn a game around just by it existing. If a killer sees an obsession, they must play in a certain way to try to avoid it, but even then, if they play too well, they might still get hit by it (59 second DSs are always fun). It forces killers to be reactionary to survivor decisions again, even if they are one of the killers I mentioned above.

  • Raven014Raven014 Member Posts: 4,188

    I would rather pick other perks than BBQ sometimes. There are times where other perks would be more fun. I remember when Hangman's was supposed to have a 16 m aura reading around hooks. That would have replaced BBQ in my eyes, as it would be far more useful. However, the devs were afraid of making good perks, and so we are stuck with BBQ. Which still has at least 6 counters to it, btw, which are easy to use (gen hiding, misdirection, Sole Survivor, lockers, Off the Record, Distortion, just to name a few).

    Adrenaline, DS, BT, Exhaustion perk survivors often do not give the ability for build diversity. It would be nice not to run Pop, BBQ, and Sloppy, but it simply isn't the correct move right now.

  • SquirrelKnightSquirrelKnight Member Posts: 937

    Gonna make this a shorter post.


    Killers and survivors both have resources to manage.

    Survivors: Pallets, Windows, Loops

    Killers: Time

    Survivors have to know how long it takes to get to loop or window or pallet and keep track of how many pallets they have left.

    Killers have to be able to manage their time efficiently or they lose the game, the faster the survivors go, the worse the killer has it.

    DS (especially with BT) wastes the killers time, either the killer eats the DS wasting minimum of 20s just to redown his last survivor, or the killer has to wait 60 seconds before picking up the person he downed, possibly even picking themselves up and running off.

    With more than one of these the killer loses at minimum a full minute of progress in a game where normal matches take between 5-10 minutes. Survivors time pressure on the otherhand is lessened by the fact that excluding endgame builds, killers grow weaker as the match goes on, as the gates open up, as the hatch becomes available.

    Most matches end between 5-7 minutes and with thise short time frames, yes DS (In its current state) is extraordinarily powerful and the only ways to keep it from activating is to simply not play the game and let the survivor go.


    TL;DR DS in itself wouldnt be a problem but with BT and with the game.in its current state it is tremendously strong, and when combined with BT has no effective counterplay. The only thing you can do is take the punishment for them having it or not play the game.

  • RakimSockemRakimSockem Member Posts: 1,253

    Two things.

    1. I think killers get stronger as the match goes on, not weaker. The farthest gen usually gets done first which shrinks the amount of area they have to patrol. And even if the survivors space the gens out, patrolling 3 or 4 gens is a lot easier by default than patrolling the 7 that start on the map. Plus pallets get used early so some places that would be good loops in early game simply become extra dead zones later in the match.
    2. I'm not sure if you meant BT or Unbreakable at the end of your post because Unbreakable + DS is usually the combo people complain about.
  • DeadeyeDeadeye Member Posts: 3,099

    You give a list of other perks... but that is your personal tier list. I would rather go by the number of DS you see in games to determine it DS is a top 5 perk.

    Besides that, you leave out the possibilities to aggreeeively make use of DS. The way DS is designed, you can actively force it to trigger, it is not simply a passive perk. Also, not every killer has 4 hour glasses ready to track every hook on every survivor. And efficient killers can easily stumble across an active DS by accident, after hooking 2 other persons, especially when there is a party of 4 equal/similar looking survivors.

    Btw Saboteur is not mapwide, it is basically the range that a killer can travel (without Agitation/Iron Grasp) while carrying a survivor.

  • SquirrelKnightSquirrelKnight Member Posts: 937

    My bad, it was early i was thinking unbreakable. And it kinda depends on who gets stronger. If survivors stealth and have more pallets and crap id say they do better later.but i get your point 👍

  • rogueplayer00rogueplayer00 Member Posts: 110

    People choose not to use it until endgame, and its a contingency if they get tunneled, making it impossible for the killer to do anything but slug them after they get unhooked no matter what the situation. Its still unfair to punish the killer for playing well, and thats what DS does sometimes. Not all the time. But sometimes.

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