The real reason you hate Spirit
thesuicidefox
Member Posts: 8,227
I was going to post this as a reply to another thread but realized this might actually help a lot of people understand the Spirit debate a lot better.
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If you have a problem with Spirit then you have a problem with mix-up characters in fighting games.
"Instances in which a player is faced with the possibility that their opponent is going to make one of numerous potential decisions, Mix-Ups are a fundamental part of fighting games. Specific games will even feature characters that possess entire movesets that are entirely based around the utilization of mix-ups, forming the archetype of Mix-Up characters. Mix-Up characters will possess numerous moves that have a similar or even identical start up animation that are then followed up by attacks that must be blocked or dodged different ways."
Spirit is literally this type of character, the one where you have to read and predict. Now in the FGC, it is actually VERY COMMON for strong mix-up characters to get a lot of hate from the general player base.
I don't expect you to sit through the video, so I will just summarize this as people don't like to have to change their tactics or play re-actively to their opponent such that making the wrong read will get you seriously punished.
This is basically what is going on with Spirit.
The thing is, just like Spirit, these characters have counter play. It's just that, by the very nature of what how they were designed and what they do, also by the fact it can be very frustrating to play against them due to the high punishment for mistakes and the ease of making said mistakes, makes this probably the most hated character archetypes in the FGC. Which is exactly what is going on with Spirit.
My theory is that because Spirit is the equivalent of a mix up character in a fighting game, a lot of players just don't understand what to do and/or get frustrated more easily when what they do doesn't work and they are dead for it. It actually has nothing to do with her having counter play or not, and everything to do with just what she does, period.
If you hate Spirit, that's fine. Go ahead hate her. I hate Doc for reasons I won't get into. There is no problem with that. But don't be intellectually dishonest about it and claim she has no counter play. SHE DOES.
Like mix up characters, I don't see Spirit going away anytime soon. You are just going to have to learn to accept her as part of the game. Yes, Prayer Beads were OP and she did get an update to balance her out more. Honestly the only way the devs can satisfy most of you at this point is either deleting her from the game, or giving her a Freddy makeover, and I neither expect nor want either of those, and I don't think you do either guy or gal reading this.
Be honest with yourself first and we can have an actual discussion about Spirit.
Comments
False, this is not the reason I hate spirit as I dont know if I hate playing as her, but shes fairly fun to verse.
This is a dumb thread. You cant block or dodge spirit. I hate her because when I slow vault or pre drop pallets she ALWAYS knows where im at and that means of I try and get away it doesnt work she will go around the window if she hears me. You have to pray she doesnt have a headset if you want to win against a good spirit. Don't compare it to a fighting game where every character can be wrecked by skill.
She's the only Killer in the game that isn't really straightforward. You could argue that maybe Nurse isn't either, but her moves are typically clear and straight forward. she wants to blink as close to you as possible and hit you. Huntress is a bit of a guessing game if both players are good, but she's much easier to read than a Spirit. Countering a Spirit requires you to read the person playing Spirit and look at how they use her. Do they fake out a lot? Do they always Phase? Do they hardly use Phase when chasing? You have to make predictions based on how they play. Sometimes you'll get it right, other times, you won't. People don't like that she's difficult to counter, that's just it. When it comes to playing Killers, Nurse is hard mode. When it comes to facing Killers, Spirit is hard mode. A good Spirit can tear through random lower level teams, but she is very competent against the highest tier of Survivor players. The issue with Spirit is the diversity of Survivor skill levels. She's balanced when faced with high rank players, but not so much vs lower, less experienced ones. Her, Nurse and Freddy tear through weaker Survivors. The good thing about this however, is that it forces weaker Survivors to improve (many of them come running to the forums to complain with their pants around their ankles, screaming profanities though). They are not OP, they are just very hard to counter. Nurse, out of the three, has the highest killing potential, but she requires a LOT of practise and mastery.
@azame
You misunderstand.
The "block and dodge" of a mix up character is the fact you have to preemptively do the input. In other words, you have to read your opponent and predict what they are going to do. This is exactly what you have to do against Spirit, therefore one could say that Spirit is the DBD version of a fighting game mix up character.
Also if slow vaulting and pre-dropping pallets hasn't worked for you, why do you still do it? Have you tried running tiles, or using windows to force 50/50's thus putting her in a position to potentially mess up? Sorry it just doesn't make sense why you would be mad something doesn't work every time, well maybe stop trying to do that thing. It's like complaining that you can't Urban Evade through corn against every killer. Some killers have good eyes, try something else.
Is ‘cause we keep seeing her name spamming these boards 🤪
jk... luv u spirittt
You could say that but this game is not the same because preemptively doing something against a person who can hear you at all times and then just avoid it is way worse. Imagine going against a spammer who is bad at mortal Kombat. So you block until they are open since they arent actually good. And THEN they hack and they can go through your blocks. That's what spirit is if she is good your input doesn't matter
You still miss the comparison.
Spirit requires you to read and predict.
Mix up characters require you to read and predict.
There is nothing here about hacking or spamming fireballs.
Spirit can only be doing so much, the fact you can't see her or know exactly what she's doing shouldn't matter. If there are only 2 paths she can take to reach your location and you take this 3rd path away from her then you just beat every option she had at the same time. She is not infallible.
Fox always comes I with the right post at the right time.
Thanks for clarifying this discrepancy that everyone misses.
What son?
She can HEAR you your choice does not matter if she can HEAR you choose it.
Read this crap
Spirits lose to good survivors who know how to play against her.
Her footsteps are very audible and clearly directional within a certain range.
Also you don't need to know anything about what she is doing. Imagine yourself just in the game by yourself no killer. You just run the path(s) that are most likely to avoid her, as she can only phase a certain distance for a certain time you can play to always maximize that distance/time no matter what path she takes.
Bro he played blendette versus vizxion spirit in the tourny and if he provides videos the spirits are noticeably bad. Just guess better lol.
No, mixup characters in fighting games use 50/50 moves, meaning you guess, based on the person and their playstyle. Look at sonic fox and batgirl for example. When you do guess right, you have to punish.
Spirit is also a 50/50 character. It's the punishment that's the issue.
Why are you in jail now lol.
Yes because GENS ARE CRAP if a spirit is good she wont lose unless its a good gen team
Ok so you agree there isnt a way to actually escape her. You basically are saying just try your best to waste time because you WILL get downed. Ok thanks. And no her footsteps are audible when its too late without deadhard or a pallet or window to save you and that requires a VERY good headset. I use a turtle beach and I have NEVER heard her footsteps but I can hear survivors
Can't All killers hear you at all times? There are a lot of good spirits that make mistakes as they are human and they cannot play perfect all the time. The key is to condition her into thinking you are going to do something then do the exact opposite. I wouldn't call her ability hacks tbf. Like someone said in a previous response she requires you to think as a survivor not just mindless loop tiles and what not. Spinechill is affective against any spirit you know 100%if she is coming for you or not and you can figure out a way to defend against her. Yes its a perk and people think they shouldn't have to use a perk to counter a killer but there are a lot of perks that help well against killers survivors do not like.
Ahhh blendette the real counter
Perks are not something you should be forced to run. Second her ability means she can use that hearing better
Its a bit more complicated than that. Mix up character tend to be you need to block low/high or tech a grab. Thats usually 4 maybe 5 options mith multiple counters. You can also see the animation and react accordingly in a fighter
A game like dbd has way too many variables for that. It's more akin to a mix up character that just vanishes at the start of an animation and you have to guess low/high/tech with no indication.
There is no "read" with Spirit because she's completely invisible and chase music often overrides her footsteps noise.
If you have to guess against a killer that means they don't have a counter. I like when I can use my skills to win and not have to hide or waste pallets. Or be a gen rat
An educated guess based on playstyle is common in almost every pvp game. I cant actually think of any that dont have some form of guessing.
She can hear ALL she wants if i know shes coming i have the upper hand
Mentalities like this are why people get beat up by mix up characters in tourneys to begin with.....you played yourself. You know they're spamming, you know they're doing chip damage.....yet you're still using the same low block expecting different results, when you could have jumped in or executed a high when they're unguarded. Again, your inability to mindgame this scenario isn't the fault of the player playing the mix up character or the spirit....ITS YOU! You gotta take accountability. Even if it means playing that character for a bit to get some insight into whats actually going on that way when you play against it you already know all the moves and can counter it. If it means you have to abuse and mind game her teleports to the point where she's always on cooldown then fine. If it means you have to run loops differently because she isn't teleporting at all, then fine. Either way, you're forced to either adjust, or get smoked....
How many times does it take you to get hit by a windup high high low before you realize.....I need to zone....
Survivors hate any killer which cannot be countered by pulling off certain trick(s) which would work 100% of tries.
So you run spine chill cause you dislike spirit? Kinda similar to the reason I run builds that help when slugged due to my dislike of Oni I'd guess?
I said someone was ignorant