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Clown and other low tiers discussion

Ok so recently in the Q&A I asked a question going straight to the Dev who on stream called clown "Underrated" it got a crap ton of downvotes but also some upvotes. You can check my profile discussions go see what I said.


So what do you guys believe? Does he need buffs? Is he "Underrated" as the guy said?


Even though the really really good Clown mains said he was weak who arguably have way more experience then the balance team because let's be honest, they haven't been doing that great. With the billy base rework. I personally believe all he needed was an Add-On rework. Hell most killers need that!

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Comments

  • OllieHellhunterOllieHellhunter Member Posts: 627

    I would agree for the most part, I dont think hes quite as bad as some say hence why I do myself think that he is underated but he is definitely one of if not the weakest killer in the game.

  • DabihwowDabihwow Member Posts: 1,411

    The problem with clown is he is very perk and map reliant and you need ti give him good add-ons or he won't do well

  • sad_killer_mainsad_killer_main Member Posts: 517

    Clown need buffs yes, it's pretty underwhelming.

  • Alexmon70Alexmon70 Member Posts: 55
  • Primalux135Primalux135 Member Posts: 1,045

    Thank you thats my point of view maybe other fellow killers have other points of view.

  • dugmandugman Member Posts: 1,282

    Clown is in the same general bucket of most killers who can win if you outplay the survivors but don't have the extended map presence to make up for errors and respond quickly to situations that aren't near him. The top killers (Spirit, Nurse, Freddy, and to a lesser extent Hag and Billy) all have ways to respond to survivors across the map quickly and an ability that makes chases more time efficient. (Hag doesn't actually chase per se but she instead gets hits primarily by trap triggers which are time efficient once the survivors need to start going into her web of traps to do gens.)

    In terms of chases, Clown is maybe the best chaser out of the 115% movement speed killers. The newly buffed Bubba is also extremely dangerous in a chase now. The killers who I would say are better than Clown in chases are not 115% movement speed (Spirit, Nurse and Huntress. Deathslinger is about on par with Clown, he's better than Clown in the open but Clown is stronger at loops.) Clown's issue is that being excellent at a chase is all he has. He's slightly better at the chase than, say, Doctor or Freddy but both of them have other abilities that more than make up the difference overall (Doctor's tracking is amazing while Freddy can teleport around the map).


    P.S. And before someone replies that "Freddy is better in chases than Clown", he's not. Freddy and Clown slow survivors by the same amount and Clown can beat survivors using gas at virtually the exact same loops that Freddy can beat survivors using snares. And as of the Silent Hill patch Clown moves full speed while throwing bottles just like Freddy moves full speed while dropping snares. But Freddy's snares only work on sleeping survivors while Clown's gas works on everyone, and Clown can throw gas in front of survivors during a chase to cut them off from getting to loops in the first place while Freddy has to drop snares right next to himself. As I mentioned above, what makes Freddy better than Clown isn't chases, it's that Freddy can teleport across the map and also doesn't have to reload his snares between chases while Clown has to spend 5 seconds reloading after every chase or two.

  • Primalux135Primalux135 Member Posts: 1,045
    edited September 5

    I cant deny clown is better chaser than most killers due he can slow down but whats the sense of it if a survivor have a pallet. Wraith can reach fast to a surv position but then what? A pallets is between surv and killer. If you meant that clown punish better being outpositioned you are right but so do that all killers.

    The first hit doesnt mind its the last hit that matters and when you do the first hit you got:

    Cooldown of your weapon.

    Surv a sprint burst to a pallet

    So then what?

    You can try mindgame but you know much structures are just mindgaming to drop pallet asap while other killers like Freddy or doctor have some sort of control over pallets thing that doesnt have Wraith or clown to some loops.

  • BlueberryBlueberry Member Posts: 7,364

    He's pretty awful. Freddy is everything Clown has and lots more. They kinda took his identity away as well with the Freddy rework.

    Killers either need high map mobility/pressure or extremely strong in 1v1. One of these gets them just to around mid-upper mid tier depending on how good their other features are. All the high tier killers actually have both of these features.

    Clown doesn't have map mobility or pressure and while his 1v1 is strong, it's not nearly as strong as it needs to be for it being his only one strength.

  • Alexmon70Alexmon70 Member Posts: 55

    I personally think Pre nerf Billy was better then Freddy. He has everything you'd ever want in a killer and then some. Even now I still think he's better. Freddy may have slowdowns but he doesn't have one shot downs. He still has to do what any other m1 killer does. In a perfect scenario the hillbilly will curve to perfection and consistently get one show downs and have enough info to traverse the map.


    Of all the 115% killers I believe it goes to Billy because of his high skill gap and ability to shred through pallets like they're nothing.

  • Alexmon70Alexmon70 Member Posts: 55

    What if they gave him some sort of buff in his own gas? What if while in the gas he moves faster, or removes his red light for better movement mind games. There's so many things you can do to rework his entire ability and still keep his title as best anti looper. That's what I want clown to be. Sure he won't be able to traverse the map fast, sure he can't one shot down but he will not get looped to hell and back. That's what I want.

  • IIITweedleIIIIIITweedleIII Member Posts: 794

    I honestly just wish him and Huntress had better aiming when throwing. Clown's in paticular, his arm says swoop while his bottle says WEEEEEEEE!

  • dugmandugman Member Posts: 1,282

    Clown is better at dropped pallets than most killers. Any pallet loop that Freddy can easily beat Clown can also beat, he just starts going around the loop and puts gas on both sides the same as Freddy would putting down snares and looping. Or, if the pallet is safe, he can throw gas across the pallet to slow the survivor right before he breaks the pallet, which slows them down in their attempt to gain distance while the pallet breaks.

    There are some killers who are better at dropped pallets than Clown: Spirit, Nurse and Huntress in particular. But all three of those are only 110% movement killers so Clown has the edge in terms of general movement speed outside of that.

    I'm not sure why you mentioned Wraith here but I agree that Wraith is weak at pallets. His strength is doing hit and run tactics to ambush survivors and get quick hits from short distance before a proper chase can get underway.

  • gibblywibblywoogibblywibblywoo Member Posts: 1,841

    I love Clown but being able to force early pallet drops is pretty much all he can do. No mobility. No real map pressure. Safe pallets are that are dropped pretty much counter him because chances are he used all his bottles already anyway.

  • seki23seki23 Member Posts: 760
    edited September 5

    he has decent 1 v 1 yes but nothing against 4 v 1 he is terrible against decent coordinated survivors but he is gonna beat most solos with ease because tehre are a lot of bad players playing the game.

  • BlueberryBlueberry Member Posts: 7,364

    The only thing I'm hesitant about in that is making his 1v1 even stronger makes him less fun from the survivor side. I'd honestly rather them give him a secondary ability to help with his map pressure.

    I also think they could do more with the blurred vision from his gas as that kinda feels like his trademark thing. Maybe like getting hit by additional gas makes the blurryness stack so it steadily gets worse and worse. Maybe the blurryness stays until you find a teammate to shake you out of it (this would slow the game down a little for him).

  • TheClownIsKingTheClownIsKing Member Posts: 2,030

    I totally agree with the devs. Clown absolutely is underrated. Once it’s properly understood HOW to use bottles to control the chase and shut down loops (rather than mindlessly always throwing them at survivors and wasting them), Clown ends chases ridiculously fast.

    Clown is for players that already have really good tracking ability, able to quickly find survivors after successfully ending a recent chase.

    Quickly downing one survivor after another by severely limiting a survivors mobility and escape options is where Clowns pressure lays.

  • gibblywibblywoogibblywibblywoo Member Posts: 1,841

    I see this thrown around a lot and would consider myself pretty good at herding and zoning the survivors as Clown. He sucks. Ending the chase fast doesn't mean much with the slow base reload and total lack of mobility or pressure. The fastest down a base clown could get (which would require the survivor to be a literal potato) is still longer than Leatherface or Billy.

  • TheClownIsKingTheClownIsKing Member Posts: 2,030

    He only needs very minor tweaks to be perfect.

    My suggestions are either

    • slightly expand the spread of gas clouds at base, and make them linger for 2 seconds longer at base
    • or....
    • Have the lingering hindered and intoxication that lasts 2.5 seconds at base outside of the gas AoE increased to 3.5 seconds at base.
  • TheClownIsKingTheClownIsKing Member Posts: 2,030

    It’s entirely possible to end most chases in 16 seconds with only 2 bottles, mitigating the downsides of reloading and making Clowns movement speed a non issue.

  • mistar_zmistar_z Member Posts: 581
    edited September 5

    He's not "completely" garbage to play as, I don't believe we have any killers like that in the game anymore other than legion. Most people don't actually want a rework and would be happy with just a few quality of life improvements and number changes. he is alright, just very monotous. He's got the demogorgon problem, in that he's okay ish in chase, but he doesn't do much of anything outside of that. He's strong 1v1, but the game is much much more than that. He has a ton of down time in between chases that keeps him from being able to compete with the other killers.

    But saying that he's underrated and people need to learn how to play him is to put it midly, tone deaf on his part. Clown has been around for years, its not like people haven't learned how to use him. People used to say spirit was weak and she got buffed a few times, it took a month or two for people to realize just how strong she was. The clown's been out since before her, trust me people have tried to make him work.


    A game balanced by clowns.

    Mcclean did some great work in his run that improved quality of life and with the killer reworks trapper, bubba and billy main babies that he really worked on spear heading (afaik), because he actually played the game. The newer people in charge wouldn't know anything about the game if it hit them in the face and sounds like an awful lot like the only concern is with churning out as many in game purchases as they can to fill their fat pockets to look good to the board.

    Post edited by mistar_z on
  • RakimSockemRakimSockem Member Posts: 1,228

    Hot take. Clown isn't low tier. There's just a lot of low tier players who can't/don't use the character correctly.

    Same thing for Wraith, new Bubba, Trapper, and a lot of killers people consider "low tier"

  • Tactless_NinjaTactless_Ninja Member Posts: 1,791

    Gas simply needs to do more. It's a great mechanic but needs more. A build up mechanic from consecutive exposure would be good.

  • KingFrostKingFrost Member Posts: 1,641

    Give all the lower tier killers fake pallets. Maybe I just like fake pallets too much >_>

  • MadLordJackMadLordJack Member Posts: 3,463

    When you use "low tier" killers against a decent team, it becomes pretty obvious why they're considered "low tier." There's a difference between making them sweat for it, and being a complete plaything whose skill literally doesn't matter because running from an m1 killer really isn't that difficult.

  • CanasCanas Member Posts: 124

    "Underrated" is just an euphemism for "unpopular" really.

  • HollowsGriefHollowsGrief Member Posts: 738

    The problem with killers like Clown isn't their power it's map size. Most maps (even after the changes) are still way to large for killers like Clown to manage. You are suppose to patrol gens and push people off them but that is impossible when it takes almost 40s to get from one gen to another. Maps need to be made much smaller across the board, large maps are not okay with current gen speed.

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