How Can Some People Call This Game Killer Sided?
DetailedDetriment
Member Posts: 2,005
I would genuinely like to know considering many of the factors point towards the game being survivor sided.
1. Perks:
Many good survivor perks can be obtained for free. Adrenaline, Iron Will, and Bond are all free teachables.
Killers on the other hand have the good perks locked behind dlc. Barbecue & Chili, Surveillance, and in the case of PC, Ruin and Monitor.
Survivor is already easy enough that you don't need perks, but then you give them the absolute best perks for free. Killers such as Wraith and Legion will get dominated without perks, but the best perks to run on them are locked behind dlc.
2. Items and offerings:
Survivor: Keys; Styptics (which got buffed); Syringes (which are worse, but still incredibly powerful); BNP; Commodious toolbox; Emergency Med-Kit.
Killer: Ebony and Ivory Mori; Iridescent Brick; Iri Head. That's all.
3. Maps and tile spawns:
Ormond. Coldwind. Autohaven. These three realms tend to be extremely survivor sided. Ormond especially just has pallet after pallet after pallet. The only deadzone that can even exist here is one of the corners with a gen near the small building with stairs.
Now, the killer sided maps are Hawkins, Lery's, and The Game, but even these are only good for stealth killers, Trapper, and Hag. A killer like Nurse is going to have an extremely difficult time on these maps.
Tile spawns would be Cow Tree into Jungle Gym into shack (Coldwind). Safe pallet into safe pallet into main building with two safe pallets into Looping Gym into Safe Pallet into shack (Ormond).
4. Glitches:
You can call me scummy for including glitches, but with how many sound bugs that exist in the game and several safe spots that can be reached, killer is at an unintentional disadvantage. No moaning, no breathing, no footsteps, and no dying noises are some of them. Iron Will, one of the best perks in the game, is bugged to not make you breath at all.
Falling onto the exit gate switch on Midwich so the killer can't get you unless he/she is playing Deathslinger.
There are just far too many issues with the game. They haven't even been fixed even though they've been in the game for months.
I would like to say that I find it quite dumb that the devs can fix pointing and crouching (which should a permanent feature) in a week, but they can't fix the detrimental sound bugs after several months.
Whether it be from perks, consumables, unfair maps, or glitches, this game is far from killer sided.
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I will probably make a follow up to this on the history of things being nerfed.
Comments
One word
SWF
I wish I could give you a gold star.
⭐
There we go.
The game is definitely balanced in favor of survivors.
When it comes to maps, I would say most of the autohaven maps are fine, otherwise I agree, also when it comes to perks I'd also suggest just looking at the strength of the best perks for both sides, sure some you have to wait to be in shrine or pay for, but the highest potential should be looked at.
They either only play survivor or they’ve played killer only at low ranks so they don’t have a balanced perspective. Pretty much the entire high rank/high hour community agrees the game is survivor sided at the top level.
Well to elaborate, swf plus headsets. Headsets give you so many perks for free. People know where the killer is, what he is doing, who he is chasing. The entire team knows when it's safe to work on gens, when it's safe to save someone, to take a hit with BT, to waste the killers time with DS, when to pop adren to screw the killer out of another down.
Also maps like Lerys, the game and Hawkins are not trapper friendly. Id say they are the worst for him because there is almost zero tall grass. Traps are pretty obvious. Indoor maps are just as bad for nurse. She can surprise you but that's only if she can see you. A lot of los blockers on those maps.
The game can be as killer sided or as survivor sided as you want it to be. With all of these nucearly strong offerings, items, perk combinations and overpowered strategies on both sides you can easily tilt matches in whatever side.
I don't think there's any solo queue team that can win against a half decent killer with a mori and strong add-ons hard tunneling off hook, as I don't think there's any killer that can win against an omega sweat squat with map offerings, keys, toolboxes and whatever.
If you have Tar bottle then the maps aren't bad with Trapper. But then again, that's a rare addon you're using when you might not get either of the indoor maps.
I was playing with some red ranked players yesterday who were trying to say the game is killer sided. Granted, one of them was boosted, but the other one was not.
He probably doesn’t play much killer then or he’s newer to the game.
Bad survivors.
The game is killer sided only if the survivors are total potatoes, otherwise it's the killer that has to tryhard as [BAD WORD] to do anything.
The only autohaven map I hate is the one where the shack is in the absolute middle of the map. If the killer has agitation your almost always going to the basement.
+1
All in all íts your opinion and I disagree a bit with what you say.
Perks:
Who cares if they are DLC or not? Get them from the shrine or buy the DLC.
Items:
There are tons off extremly powerful addons for killer and not just Iri head. Iri head is extremly broken and by far stronger then any addon for an item survivors have tho.
Survivor have Spytic Agent, key and well.. thats about it... i dont know why you even mention Commodius toolbox, Toolboxes are useless now.
Then you say killer only have Ebony or Ivory mori... you know, offerings which are more powerrful then all the items and addons survivors have.
Maps and Tile Spawns:
Alone that you generally put autohaven as survivor sided gives me a good insight how much you care to look at both sides equaly. It is true that indoor maps are usually more killer sided, but those are definitly not the only ones. Just look at Saloon, Sanctum of Wrath, Shelter Woods, Chapel, Azarovs etc all killer sided without a doubt.
And about tile spawns.... lol icould also say deadzone after deadzone after deadzone... what you are talking about is rare. Safe loops into safe loops are really not that common anymore.
Ormond is true tho i give you that, they should remove a few pallets.
Bugs: For both sides...
You will make a follow up on the history of things being nerfed? Great, this might open your eyes a bit ;)
pretty much survivor sided even solo can beat a killer.
i wouldnt generalise this whole game on which side is favoured theres a lot of variables into it, i can say that azarovs resting place is a killer sided map but with a 4 man swf runnin small pp build then its survivor sided you cant say either side is favoured because of the rng in this game
Perks:
Survivor mains have to pay less money to get what they want. Killers have to wait for another terrible rng based mechanic to give them what they want or spend real money on it.
Items:
There's a difference between powerful and broken. Iri head is broken, but Flower Babushka is powerful.
Styptic Agents are incredibly powerful. It's literally MoM without a difficult activation requirement. Syringes are still great if you bring in healing speed increases. A Commodious Toolbox with both charge addons is enough to do over half a gen. If you bring in Streetwise that's even more. If you have that and you are working with someone else you will not only power through the gen, but you'll still have some charges left.
Maps and Tile Spawns:
Autohaven definitely comes second to Ormond in terms of safe loop spawns and number of pallets. This is especially true for Blood Lodge.
I was looking more at reals in general instead of maps, but Chapel is survivor sided. Azarov's can be survivor or killer favored depending on if the survs know not to 3-gen.
I've come across deadzone plateaus, but a deadzone is normally the result of a pallet already having been used.
Ormond should lose some pallets and maybe have the main building get looked at too. I'd like to see a return of the excavators that were on the map.
Bugs:
There are bugs on each side, yes, but killers have it worse.
xDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD
Kill rate is greater than 50%. Statistically speaking, it is.
Although near the skill ceiling, (4 man meta swf teams), it's a different story. But they are clearly rare enough to not be able to push kill rate below 50%
80% of players are survivors. Most people stick to survivor and the very few that do play killer don't play killer at a high enough level to experience how oppressive good survivors are.
Kill rate is so high because the game is very easy for survivor, so you get many survivors in ranks they don't belong because they've essentially been carried by their teams to that rank. True kill rate is more in line with what happened in Hexy's tournament, as those are very high level players.
This game is extremely unbalanced, so you get snowballs in either direction within the first few minutes of the game, barring very bad mistakes during the rest of the game. Even a SWF of 2 players means they can coordinate perks, they know which perks each one has, and they have someone they can trust to take protection hits if need be or if they need to stay on the hook for a bit they know the other person won't just suicide and they can make plays based off of that trust that increases the efficiency of the team to a level that helps snowball the other 2 survivors as well, or at least guarantees a non 4k.
Being a mediocre survivor playing high ranks, I can vastly increase my survival rate by running perks like BT and making team plays just by myself, if I was better or if I had someone to team with, I'd easily have over 80% survival rate, as I have about a 60% survival rate as solo in red ranks. Kill rates just illuminate how bad the average survivor is at red ranks, it doesn't show anything about game balance. It is unfortunate that the devs rely on those numbers instead of being able to play their game at a high level to see what can be abused and exploited, or at least seek the advice of players that offer them legitimate criticism.
They also admitted that they count DC as kills because if they DC'ed they must have considered the game a loss anyway.
Which is flawed, because many suicide on first hook or DC at first down simply out of idiotic raging, whereas had they remained in the match and not screwed over the other three, they might have turned it around and more escaped.
That kill rate data is flawed to hell and back.
Ummm I play 5 hours straight this Sunday with various players all over the Europe, and I can't escape a single trial ? Of course it's killer sided.
I exclusively play solo que, and I can say with absolute certainty that if I didn't also play killer at high ranks then I'd think this game was killer sided as well. Bad teammates (which you are supposed to have) make the individual trial killer sided. In solo que, almost everyone is a boosted moron that has no real idea what they are doing, refuses to touch a gen to save their life, refuses to heal and goes down in 3 seconds, and generally makes the game miserable.
1:4 ratio is intended I don't see the problem if 80% of players are survivors.
Rank doesn't matter. Matchmaking being broken go both ways. You are countering your own points.
"Kill rate is so high because the game is very easy for survivor, so you get many survivors in ranks they don't belong because they've essentially been carried by their teams to that rank"
What? Survivors are dying because the game is easy? When survivors are carried, their escape still counts toward the kill rate. When survivors are boosted and dying, it also counts toward the kill rate.
"True kill rate is more in line with what happened in Hexy's tournament, as those are very high level players."
No... No it's not. Those players are at the far right end of the bell curve.
Adjusting the game at the skill ceiling is not the same as overall balance for the entire player base, especially since this is a "party game" not an ultra-competetive esorts game.
Yes, they also count afk killers, farming killers as escapes. They even count killer letting last person get hatch as an escape. They also count killer dcing as 4 escapes.
The beauty of averages is that they tend to average out
yea addons for specific killers should not be considered especially when they are outdated and may not be used because well you know not everyone plays that killer. As for how strong those addons are the only one i can think of that is strong enough to completely make the match killer sided is IR hatchets which are outdated and will be changed after huntresses rework which is coming. no other addon can actually turn a match around against a meta swf.
Also keys are actually stronger than mori's a killer that is tunneling with a mori will get two kills if the survivors are smart and have a key since they will do the 3 gens required and then use the key to escape. if one of them gets found doesn't matter the last gets out with the key. this is especially likely if they knock out two gens at once in the beginning of a game which is common even among solo players.
for maps id say most are actually survivor sided and even the killer sided maps can be dealt with if you spread the gens properly. as for the game that map is actually survivor sided due to all the safe loops, if i remember correctly their are actually 5 or 6 god pallets on that one map. as for dead zones you can still loop regularly and if your team spreads the gens you win due to the distance as maps that have a lot of dead zones are generally really big.
edit: if your referring to the old op vaults, pallet vacuums, DS, BT, insta heals, flashlights, and whatever other small broken stuff i missed than your totally right those nerfs were not needed and the game was more balanced back then.
Not killer sided, except they 3k and 4k my solo queue every game. Damn hatch, killer unplayable. :^)
if 80% of people play survivors, then you will see a large portion of players being survivor friendly or anti killer on the forums, that's how population sizes work.
Rank does matter actually, you still need to pip. In order to pip you need to do objectives. Unfortunately it does not take much effort to pip as a survivor, you get a black pip if you just survive the trial and are carried by your team mates. Part of the reason why rank doesn't matter as much as it should is because of this.
The numbers were pulled from red ranks. If it is easy for survivors to pip and get into red ranks, more bad survivors will be in red ranks that don't belong in red ranks, this inflates survivor kill rates. Surprisingly this has an inverse reaction towards killer pipping because if you kill people too hard in this game, you will depip, so you got a bunch of bad survivors playing against very strong killers and you get a lot of dc's and 2 minute 4ks that go towards depipping the killer. Killer is much harder to pip in this regard, because you can actually depip if you kill too hard, if you survive too hard, you get an automatic black pip for surviving at the very least.
Red ranks were intended for the top players to play at, that's the whole reason there's a ranking system to begin with. True red rank games are much like what happened in Hexy's tournament, you should see kill rates very similar as red ranks are intended for high levels of play, much like hexy's tournament was. By true red rank games, I mean high level killers vs high level survivors.
There is an algorithm that determines the strength of tiles in the game. Each tile has a certain value, and every map has the same maximum value set. The problem with this algorithm is that it does not take into account adjacent tile strength, so you can have a jungle gym go into cow tree go into shack and then a junk tile into an L wall T wall. This single chain is enough to run a killer for 5 gens easy. This algorithm can also swing pallets from 8 to 16 on some maps.
You understand the underlying problem of why killers get gen rushed, but you fail to understand why the chases take too long. Most of the pallets in most maps are safe pallets, meaning that you HAVE to kick them, if you are not kicking them, that means you are downing the survivor in another way like with hatchets or the survivor is not playing the tile and forcing you to kick it.
The reason why people are playing spirit and freddy is because both of these killers have good mobility and good tile play. Freddy has his traps that slow survivors down and Spirit's power turns every tile into an L wall T wall.
I would argue that all the M1 killers have nearly 0 way of applying team pressure, especially on bigger maps. By your logic, wraith should be a top tier killer, since he has invisibility and very high mobility to get up close to survivors. Obviously the game is much more complex than just boiling it down to chases lasting too long or not enough map pressure.
This game is definitely killer sided
I'm not saying SWF's don't have great advantages, but I'd encourage a lot of new players to play a fair bit of solo, for the same reason you try not to use perks- so you build/learn fundamental skills instead of using them as a crutch.
I will duo SWF sometimes and I can honestly say I usually perform worse, and I believe it's because I rely too much on communication and teammate than my own skills. Sometimes SWF mind games itself without any help from the Killer.