One night I was in a 4 man swf and discord was acting up. We actually played the game as intended. It was more enjoyable.
I think both are difficult to play as, but the number of times I have died in ranked matches from teammates farming and avoiding objectives or provoking the killer is ridiculously high. Those matches just ruin my whole experience. I don't hate the people who do it, I just wish they understood that my rank is not only dependent on how I play, but how they play as well. And then as killer you get some SWF that are super fun and maybe play around a bit, but then there are the ones who just plain bully you with pallet flashlight attacks! I've seen the best and worst of both sides, and I'm still new to the game, but I hope to see better sportsmanship in general. Also, I have had matches where the killer targets me, downs me, has teammates heal me to injured and then down me again, over and over and over... I had to disconnect because nothing was getting done and I legit felt like garbage. I knew that it was probably funny for them, but waiting to join a lobby only to have them do that kind of stuff is really awful.
This game seems killer sided for a lot of survivors due to bad teammates. 4 average survivors can demolish any killer besides Spirit and Nurse. 4 good survivors can demolish even these two. Give those 4 average or good survivors comms and then the game is unbalanced af. The thing is most teams aren't like this because most survivors are bad, so basically any team is doomed to have 1 or 2 weak links on which the killer can win the game. If I remember it correctly, even Scott Jund stated that he needed at least a weak survivor on a team to capitalize on.
If the game had proper matchmaking, balancing at the top would be fine, but it doesn't. They need to just put a debuff on swf and be done with it. No stacking perks would suffice.
Here is why the game is killer sided, I am a terrible killer. I can't see the survivors when they are standing right in front of me, I lose track of which way they go constantly causing them to be able to get a full map length of distance from me in the blink of an eye. I STILL get 4 kill matches 95% of my games. You all whine and complain when someone gets even one play off against you but you forget that survivors have to get almost all of their plays off against you to win. They mess up any play and they go down. As a killer you get taken in a play it's no big deal because you can get them on the next one, or the one after that. You have to fail so many times it's ridiculous, but you all that complain about it conveniently forget about all of your successes and only remember the few times a survivor got the upper hand.
You are the only sane one here.
it is far too easy to chain strong tiles to run a killer for enough time to win the game. Chases last far too long. A proper ranking system will keep the stronger players playing against other stronger players. The game is very unbalanced and is heavily survivor sided. Chases last much too long, maps are much too large, and there's too many safe pallets that don't offer any type of counterplay. It's not a surprise that the killers that can circumvent strong tiles with their power are seen as strong.
I'll keep posting this because it's by far the best way to balance a game, and a game that's 13 years old that still has more players playing than DBD shows that the design philosophy is tried and true. It allows casual players to have fun as well as hardcore players. Catering to just one part of the playerbase leads to imbalances in the other parts.
People are bad at this game because they have absolutely no incentive to get good. If bad players were kept at rank 20, they would either stay at that rank and play casually or they would learn the game and improve their ranks. Giving players participating trophies is a poor way to gauge their skill. Also, despite what the devs say, it's not that terribly difficult to balance this game. You just have to either play the game and reach a high level to understand the nuance of it, or you have to take advice from people who do, the devs simply don't do this, they don't play their game at a high level and they are generally smug about the balance of this game, thinking they know better than the top players that are able to break it. Understanding what each side must do to either prolong a chase or end it is the key to gauging player skill. Relying on spreadsheets is a good way to make a game 'balanced' but feel like utter crap playing, it's the difference between losing and feeling like there was nothing you could do to win, and losing and feeling like you just didn't play well and learning from your mistakes.
They're rank 10-20.
On a different note, the fact that most people play survivor when they want an easy or relaxing game is definitely a problem. Neither side should have it that easy.
I really agree with this! People tend to say "keys are broken" But then say "yeah, but moris are broken so it's only fair". Ignoring one problem or saying one unbalanced thing fixes another isn't fixing anything.
Again, it's not about being a hardcore competitive game, it's about making the game fun and accessible to everyone, not just people who want to play hardcore or people who want to just play casually. That's why this video is important. The way to balance the game for all levels of play is to balance it towards the people that break the game, with some compromise to the other players. That way the game is balanced at all levels of play and you don't have players who break the game absolutely bullying the normal players like you do on DBD.
I really don't know why you only see these suggestions as catering just to high level play. These suggestions are specifically designed to balance the game at all levels of play to make the game fair for everyone that plays it.
Most maps are not fine, most maps are broken. Even the most balanced map in the game, bedham, has the school which is god awfully survivor based.
The game doesn't need a competitive mode, it just needs to separate the skilled players from the non-skilled players. Although ideally if the game was properly balanced around skilled play, non-skilled players would be able to play against skilled players and still have fun. That's the beauty of balancing the game around high level play, you don't get people who can just abuse mechanics and bully lower skilled players.
DBD is much more simpler than TF2, there's hundreds of weapons spread across 12 classes in TF2. In DBD you just have survivors vs killers and then killer powers and perks. The video I posted is mostly talking about game balance and it uses TF2 as a perfect example of good game balance, it's really not about the game itself, it's the design philosophy that was implemented in it that has stood the test of time. DBD has a player retention problem because it becomes very unfun at high levels of play.
That's 3 words
I think there's a pretty reasonable ideas to why the kill rate is above 50%.
If you check out Steam's global achievements, you'll see that 14% of all survivors and 8% of all killers have managed to reach reach rank 10 respectively. That means, the global of majority of players don't play enough to reach deep enough into the ranks (or are just bad enough to never rank up) to get past it.
Explains why the kill rate is so high when there's so many low ranked players getting annihilated.
Badham is one of the more balanced maps in the game, this is the view of most good players of the game, more importantly OhTofu, who has about 7000 hours in the game and has been playing it since it came out.
I can tell by the way you talk about ranking that you don't have much to offer in terms of what balance means from both points of view. It's quite telling how limited your knowledge is of the game. I'm just going to leave it at that because there's not much point in discussing the nuances of the game and game design philosophy with you especially because you seem to not understand a single thing I say, forcing me to repeat myself.
So I actually think the game is relatively balanced, but the amount of bias in this is laughable.
Most of the DLC characters can be unlocked with shards or their perks can be found on the shrine. Killers have multiple solid builds they can run that are all useful and strong (depending on the killer). Gen slowdown builds, anti-healing builds, anti-stealth builds, a complete hex totem build. There's actually a legit variety in killer's builds and none of them are weak.
Survivor builds are basically, the meta (DS/Unbreakable/Exhausting perk of choice/random 4th perk), a complete healing build, a complete stealth build. Anything outside of those 3 is pretty much memes like Sabo builds and vault faster because i have resilience and no mither kinda stuff
2 . Items and Offerings
This is where you really made the LEAST sense. Were you serious or trolling? Survivors on good items now are keys. Toolboxes got nerfed into the ground. BNP got nerfed so hard that they were made damn near useless. At best, they're used to rush a gen that's almost done but the killer has Pop and they're on the way. The "used to be" insta heal is now pretty weak and you rarely see anyone use it.
Killers have the 4 things you mentioned + all the other ultra rares and even some rare add ons that are stronger than ultra rares. Prayer beads, Franks Mix Tape, pretty much all of Freddy's add ons, windstor
3 . Maps and Tile Spawns
Most maps are fine honestly. Some of them should be a little smaller, that's it. Also Nurse is one of the most powerful characters on indoor maps because she can bypass walls and she can teleport up and downstairs. Like on the game when you run up those stairs to jump down into the little silo thing, nurse can just blink right through the floor and you're screwed. No other killer has that kind of chase ability on a level that has multiple floors and hundreds of walls.
4 . Glitches
Glitches affects both sides.
1. While normally true, I am almost certain the forums tend to be more killer oriented (I'm pretty sure that was a consensus around here that there are more vocal killers on the forums than survivors)
2. Once again your points on pipping aren't really relevant to whether this game is balanced for the overall player base. Also " rank does matter, also pipping is broken, also matchmaking is broken. Also survivors and red ranks are boosted, but also red rank survivors with purple rank killer is unfair." Logic does not add up here
3. Your point on survivor pipping and hexy tourney IS RELEVANT when talking about the skill ceiling and balance at high rank. But once again, this is a party game, and a discussion on whether this game needs to be balanced around high rank is a different story than if the overall game is survivor or killer sided.
There are ways to limit the survivor skill ceiling, and it is okay to do that even if OVERALL the game is killer sided. And they have been doing that with the map changes, that don't seem to effect bad survivors much but limit how oppressive excellent survivors can be with great tile set-ups
BUT the numbers don't lie, average kill rate is above 50%, so OVERALL, it is a correct statement to say the game is killer sided.
Ok, now do the same thing but with deadzones. Rng will rng, and overall will average out.
It seems to be common theme in your comments, you are using the high variance and rng in this game to justify the game as survivor sided, but nitpicking when the rng aligns with survivors, but are ignoring the average.
The game is 4 man SWF-sided.
Holy [BAD WORD], I was expecting a killer circlejerk on this thread but this is a new low.
Peanits said in a comment somewhere that DCs weren't even included in the last set of stats.
the game is not killer sided when you play against 3/4 man when i play agaisnt solos i win every single time... so the game is killer sided IF you go agaisnt solos with all their ineficciency-
If we're talking from back in 2019 or so, I specifically asked him if they were and he said: yes. At which point, I questioned the decision and he replied with what I stated above about DCs.
This is a major misconception. DBD is not a team game whatsoever, just because there's 4 survivors does not mean they are supposed to be an organized team. The story indicates four survivors are put in a desolate location that are not supposed to know each other. The idea right here that if one survivor is a little weaker than the others means the entire team will definitely fail confirms there is a major balancing issue. It confirms killers are way too overpowered.
it is killer sided
I mean, either he's telling you something different than he is to other people, would you be able to find the comment where he said DC's are included? :)
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/107244/are-those-stats-with-or-without-dc - Thread with said comment.
I have over 2700 posts. I work a living. Sorry, but I'm not going through all that. I remember what was said, but at the end of the day I just don't care enough on the forums to go through that. So, I'll just bow out of this one. Again, sorry.
Didn't think so, have a good day :)
People who call this game killer sided are either too casual or too ignorant to play the game at the level required to experience the imbalance. It is what it is.
Kill rate at every rank is above 50%. Even at rank 1.