solo queued for a few hours tonight. Despite being red ranks I was one of very few people running the small pp build and my teams were constantly tunneled and camped and useless to do anything about it because they weren't running these perks. A lot of games over very quickly and people just farming each other off hook for easy BP. The game can't be played properly without them.
I did play during this time and i was running enduring in all my build a 1,5 sec stun is better then a 5 sec stun with no counter play because most of the time DS is pair with unbreakable
lol "no counterplay"
Yeah, I'm guessing going for the other 3 survivors in the trial doesn't count as counterplay.
Counting to 60 doesn't count as counterplay, simply going for the unhooker, patrolling gens blah blah blah.
I've heard every excuse.
I mean he has a point it's usually the newer players complaining the most. New killer mains making bold claims and new survivor mains saying a killer is op or like bbq is op just annoying.
Hooking 2 people after a hook and still getting DS by the first survivor you hook because you are too fast with your down and losing all the momentum you had because at this half the survivor are immune cause of DS and UB but that true ignoring 2 survivor who can work on a gen while looking at you because they know they are immortal for a minute is fun
Show me you hooked 2 people and got DS'ed by the 3rd.
I want to see YOUR personal proof. Show me, because I've asked several people on the forum that apparently get DS'ed after hooking 2 people and I haven't been given anything.
Want me to back your claim up, show me "Hooking 2 people after a hook and still getting DS by the first survivor you hook because"
^ ^ That happening to you.
It's situational unless you force the killer into that situation, which is what a lot of killers are complaining about, and rightfully so. It's just that the main counters to this are to play into the other perks of the build. Counter DS? Slug, but then they use Unbreakable.
But yeah, it's part of the reason I play Pig and act like I have Devour Hope. Just ignore someone with an RBT unless they literally run into me, and don't ever be near a hook. Or if someone hook-bombs, take the easy trade. Easy win.
That's not a counter. Just like saying killers killing you is a counter to perks...it's just their objective and contributes nothing to the conversation.
There is no denying that certain perks and combos are strong, but I think these forums need to lay off the assumption that just because these perks are brought, means you will be at a complete disadvantage.
I consistently have matches like the one below. Where you get survivors that are really good at the game, but rely too much on these perks. Out of all those the only one they managed to use was Unbreakable, and it was because I intentionally slugged them because I knew they had DS (with how they were playing).
2 Decisive Strikes, 1 Unbreakable, 3 Dead Hards, 1 Borrowed Time. 3 keys and in one of the worst maps for a killer because of it's size and set ups... Temple of Purgation.
I think if anything these perks are healthy for the game. I would be bored to death if I knew I could simply camp or slug without any absolute downside to it. As it is, you can almost do that with not much of a downside.
Also, before anyone says that these were bad players, actually they were not. They knew what to do in certain set ups and were also doing gens while keeping me occupied, they were all dead at 4 gens, with the last one dc'ing because she couldn't use her key on time.
I am also not saying every match will be this way, but it is sometimes rather baffling to me how some players tend to try to create this stigma that if you play against these perks you have no chance of winning. Skill isn't just about knowing how to play against perks.
You need to wait for the bug fix because playing killer is a pain in the ass now you cant hook survivor sometime and i need to find how to record gameplay on my ps4 and post it here
I mean, a lot of your complaints can be the same on Survivor side... if you're playing against Deathslinger, Pyramid Head, Spirit, etc, when you're in the most interactive part of game. When you're in a chase against those killers, you don't get to rely on any of your own skill as a survivor. Same when a survivor gets hit with NOED, or when they're facecamped- there's things both sides do that are boring and doesn't involve skill. It doesn't take more then 1 brain cell to hold your chainsaw on a Survivor on hook as Bubba.
I'm not saying that makes small pp fun to play against. But as someone who plays both sides at red rank, if you're playing solo queue, it's really rough without it. In a game with no obsession? Get ready to be deleted from the game as quickly as possible. Playing against an Oni? Be ready to be sitting on the ground for the next five years as he slugs you at 5 gens, because your team fed him his power, or because you're on a map with a ton of unsafe pallets- and your teammates haven't touched a gen. (Why do that when you can try to t-bag your local tree?)
Don't get me wrong, it is abused at high tier by very optimal SWF- but just remember that a lot of Survivors do wanna have fun too, and don't want to have to run the same boring build every game. But it gets really hard to do when you're sitting at Rank 1, and constantly getting some crappy killers to play against, and crappy survivors to support you. Or getting facecamped while running a chest build. After so many sweaty killers, you start to wonder for a good reason to not run builds like that, because at least then you could actually play the game.
But with these perks, killers cannot kill you. That's the problem. No matter the killer, you can always do gens. It is on you and your team to fail at that basic task. The killer cannot say the same about killing, even a Nurse.
Maybe think about that in the grand scheme of counterplay.
The only time DS/UB combo can actually save you is if you have competent teammates and you're in the EGC phase. Other than that, for survivors, using that combo is (while it makes me feel ashamed to say it) a strategy just like killers using NOED, for example, or a Legion using Thanatophobia/Dying Light/Sloppy Butcher/whatever else makes it very slow to heal. There are perks in the game and they are meant to be used, and at the end of the day nothing can change that fact, no matter if it's a strong perk or a weak one. Some perks may be more aggressive and powerful, but each of them has a weakness, with Decisive Strike's weakness being to wait out the timer, and Unbreakable's being to pick up the survivor. Hence the reason why I always eat DS and at least try to put down the person that used it, just in case they might have Unbreakable as well.
Imagine if all perks in the game were stupid and simple, such as Alert, Empathy or the new VIsionary. Would that be a game changer? I don't think so.
The only time I see the DS/UB combo being frustrating to go against as killer is if you see it 100% every game and they manage to escape 100% solely because of those two perks. If this is something that happens to you or any other killer, forgive me but you have to take a close look at your skill level and the perks you use.
I guess survivors aren’t allowed perks that have synergy...
Also, contrary to what people think, it’s not an insta win build or invincibility build. I wouldn’t class being slugged on the ground as being invincible. Even with unbreakable you are still applying pressure, especially if you find someone else nearby.
If they make aggressive plays then slug them. Chances are they probably have like 30s or less of their DS left anyway so you don’t have to wait too long.
Or you can eat the DS so it doesn’t get used in endgame.
Old 33 % ds the big equivelant of rip all mappressure bless the entity that broken thing is gone
I’m in the same boat. I never use that build as I don’t go into a match with the mindset I’ll be getting hooked. So why use perks that only benefit me whilst I’ve been hooked and potentially slugged? It’s just a colossal waste of time. There’s only a handful of times I’ve wished I had those perks, but not enough to actually use them.
Whilst playing killer I normally only get hit with DS if I allow it, such as pulling somebody out of a locker who was just sat on a gen. I’ll normally just eat it so that they waste it. It’s extremely rare for me to come across the DS, Unbreakable and Soul Guard combo. People act as if every player in red ranks uses it, but where are they? I play a lot of survivor and killer and rarely see them. DS? Sure. Unbreakable? Yep. Soul Guard almost never and all 3 combined? A complete rarity. I feel like people have ran into this combo once, didn’t like it and exaggerated how much they face it in hopes something will be done.
I used Soul Guard twice optimally. It was against a Hag and a Freddy. In both games, my build was: Tenacity, Unbreakable, Soul Guard and Decisive Strike. I was merely testing out a build that I thought looked great, and thanks to my weird luck it worked out in the End Game Collapse, not more than twice. I even congratulated myself for how amazing my play was, yet I don't keep those perks in my builds. Believe it or not, Breakdown saved me more than the DS/UB combo. I highly encourage everyone to use Breakdown, I think I'll go as far as to say that it's the best perk in the game.
But yeah, I agree with what you said and I'm on the same boat. People really overexaggerate when it comes to these very situational survivor perks. People make it look like everyone in red ranks uses them and how they are the most overpowered perks to ever exist in the game, while in reality if these killers who keep complaining tried those perks themselves, they would know how trash and situational they can be.
That's a great idea, making all the OP perks and add ons getting their original power back on April First, then all the new players will see how good they have it now.
It's no exaggeration that at least 80% of games have a player using Decisive Strike. BT, slightly more rare and Unbreakable is the most rare. Soul Guard I barely see tbh. It's definitely an exaggeration that every single player on a team has DS, it's usually a max of two people which is practically bearable (I mean you eat the DS early on and they never have it again).
I'm against Moris being nerfed specifically because of DS. I've had games where the Exit was opened or the Hatch was right there, and I got DS-ed and I lost a Kill. MANY, MANY games where I got a person downed infront of the finish line, picked em up and they popped DS and were like "GG ez" and stuff in post game chat. They'd literally DEFEND that crap like seriously.
Rant on the OP build. I have a MASSIVE problem against DS, because the only solution is to camp a slugged survivor, but I have zero issues with BT and Unbreakable. DS is just low-to-no skill and kills the game. If it was like three consecutive very hard skill checks (Great Skill Checks basically), I'd respect a DS but it just isn't. As it is now, the only way to balance DS I feel like is give a speed debuff to the survivor using it and/or put them in exposed for like 2 minutes. Small PP build imo is like BT, DS, Adrenaline and Sprint Burst.
Conclusion: Unbreakable is ridiculously easy to counter and not that useful at all, DS is ridiculously useful, very easy to pull off (literally 40% of the zone of a good skill check? Are you kidding me? That is literally child's play.) and BT is actually a valuable perk I respect and feel makes the game better.
Rant start. Second chance perks are stupid, and you do not deserve them. Get out of jail free cards should not exist in a game like DBD, it removes all tension and makes games stupid. Even NOED can be killed with Totems, this crap is just stupid and slows the game down to a crawl.
That literally makes zero sense. Slugging is how you get a game. Slugging benefits survivors because you can literally just distract with two guys and get one dude to heal, or one dude to distract and double-heal the slugged. Or, even better, triple heal the slug in basically seconds.
But y'know, OK. I remember when DS was broken, and it took a pretty long time for it to be nerfed. Just because in the history of the freaking universe it was nerfed once, doesn't mean the nerf was good or anything. If you suture a wound, but the wound opens 5 milliseconds after you sutured it, you cannot just say "ah well screw it, I did my best" and not reapply the sutures to that open wound. You didn't even finish the job, you did such a terrible job suturing the wound, to such an extent, you objectively did basically nothing.
But hey, survivor mains literally whine and cry about anything so they get their stupid OP crap just like the Spirit mains, just like the Hag mains.
xDDDD Jesus Christ
IMO, blood warden should just be a part of the game. It's stupid that the Entity wouldn't be a trickster, and if the Killer was near give him a chance at the kills. As a punishment to t-bagging at the gates, if you remain a certain time in the exit-gate yard, especially near the exit, it will shut it off for everyone. Had many a game where survivors stand at exit then immediately leave when I go to hit them, should be literally punishable by sacrifice.
Moris should never let the survivor escape: If I hit someone with a mori, if their character's animation goes out of bounds they should still be dead. That's pretty stupid.
Gate progress should always regress to 50% (very slowly) if it goes over 70%, so 99%-ing cannot happen. Reverse exponentially - if it hits 99%, it should basically revert to 90% instantly and to 70% in about 2-3 seconds. Endgame collapse exists for a reason, and that's kind of a dumb exploit.