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Why are we concerned about the other side having fun?

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  • Science_GuyScience_Guy Member Posts: 1,201

    That's fair, and I guess I can agree that if you're playing a normal game then the fact that the other side isn't having fun probably isn't your fault. But when people talk about a game being no fun for the other side around here, it's usually one of two things. Something like a 4-Man SWF w/ 3 Flashlights and a Key, or Iri Huntress + Ebony, the kind of things where it's clear one side won't have any fun because the other has a massive advantage from the jump. Or bad behavior like excessive BM, or slugging for the 4k, things that provide maybe a marginal level of 'fun' for one side but are a massive PITA for the other.

  • MrLimonkaMrLimonka Member Posts: 498

    What do you even mean by "There are no sides"? What.

    And no, the forum isn't the only place people complain. Countless youtubers, streamers, players in the endgame chats, content creators and even my friends show that.

    And I bet you must have tons of fun being 1 hooked and camped by a bad killer with noed, or being gen rushed by a 4 man SWF with meta perks with an Ormond offering. Very fun indeed. You may not care, but many players concerned with the game's health do.

  • MoundshroudMoundshroud Member Posts: 1,748
    edited September 16

    I think it is very much about winning and losing, and you are engaging in a rhetorical trick to move the goalposts. I'm all about good sportsmanship. I think tea-bagging and other obnoxious things are horrible; I've said so many times (and will again). We agree good sportsmanship should be that to which we all aspire.

    That, however, is NOT what this thread is REALLY about. It is the same old song and dance of people trying to shame certain tactics, perks, behaviors, etc. in game because they find them difficult to play against. Don't try to confuse apples and oranges here. I will camp, tunnel, slug, and Mori if I believe it is the right tactical call at the time. Many new (or bad) Killers do these things incorrectly, not in optimal ways, but that doesn't change the fact that those are just tactics and none of my (or your) business. They gonna be them; we should just be us.

    I've had people accuse me of camping when I was on the other side of the map. I've been accused of tunneling when I hooked every Survivor three times and none in consecutive order. I've been accused of it ALL, and usually without merit. I've also done all of those things and will again. Do you get my point? If you want to turn this Thread into a discussion of good sportsmanship, i.e. about salt, tea-bagging, etc. I'm all for it. But don't pretend that is what this thread is about right now.

  • JPLongstreetJPLongstreet Member Posts: 696

    For me fun ,or at least not a stressful nightmare, shoukd be the goal for both sides. What a side complains about is likely an effective method that directly interupts the other, the further unbalanced the more yelling.

    That magic impossibility would be to unlearn the toxic and/or sweat tactics that infuriates a side, but there's the catch. Survs don't wanna be slugged, killers refuse to be stunned and hate DS and the 118 other things you can try to pull off with DS, and so on. All of it can be devastating and heartbreaking. But dammit they work. It's a vicious cycle.

  • Xbob42Xbob42 Member Posts: 1,106

    I never made claims that it was about winning or losing, so claiming I'm moving goalposts is ridiculous. You want to make it all about how you "totally owned them and now they're salty" or whatever, but in my experience, in 99% of games it's all just "gg" at the end when it comes down to normal games with normal wins or losses. It is decidedly different end-game chat when someone's being a twat the whole time.

    Yes, some people do get salty at losing, and most of the time I'd wager it's people like you, who are obsessed with winning like you're going to get prize money or something. People who aren't obsessed about winning generally don't care as much if they lose.

  • EndstilleEndstille Member Posts: 2,246
    edited September 16

    Where or better how exactly are they treated as if they are not part of the community?

  • MoundshroudMoundshroud Member Posts: 1,748

    Methinks you missed the point. I pointed out there is NO prize money (not prizes at all). Thus, the game's fun is in the competition. We are here for the conflict, the struggle, the PVP. If someone doesn't like those things, this is the wrong game for them to be playing. There is no judgement in that statement. I'm bored to tears by World of Warcraft and Minecraft. Those are not the right games for me, and thus you will not find me there. I don't spend my time on their Forums complaining about the game they love, nor telling them how things SHOULD be. I was the odd man out, so I left to find games to which I'm more suited. Do you get my point?

  • Hex_LlamaHex_Llama Member Posts: 247

    I don't think its okay to be rude to people who are playing a computer game with you, but the original question in this thread was more about modifying the way you play so that other people have fun.

    I don't think you should make yourself lose so that everyone else has a good time, but I do think that the main point of playing a game with other people is for all of you to have fun. And I'll confess that I didn't always believe that when I was young, but now I'm old, and I think things like "Everyone deserves a chance to get some points," and "It's more fun if we all get to play," and "This guy has had a rough game; I don't need to body block him from his only hook."

    At the same time, some of the most unpleasant games I've ever had have been ones where, in the early game, I went out of my way to be considerate of the people I was playing against and, in the late game, they went out of their way to troll me. It feels really bad when that happens, but I don't think the answer is for me to troll, too.

  • PlaysByShadyPlaysByShady Member Posts: 93

    Because I like to play with people, not against people (even though we may be on opposing sides during the game). I derive my enjoyment from having a good match with fair (as far as possible) odds of success... not by beating the other side with hacks, exploits, or gameplay that would be considered unsporting.

  • RakimSockemRakimSockem Member Posts: 1,228

    Because we're not jerks???? Is this a serious question?

    There's no game or sport I can think of where I'm not more entertained by a fair, fun, and close match than by a complete blowout. Volleyball, dodgeball, every game I've ever played. The matches are more fun when there's back and forth. When the game is relatively even. When everyone is having some fun.

    One side not having any fun or any chance of winning or at least enjoying the game sucks the fun right out of the other side. Unless you're a dick

  • KingFrostKingFrost Member Posts: 1,640

    You don't have to be. But if you aren't, don't come complaining when the other side makes the game unfun for you. You're a killer who likes to camp and tunnel? That's fine. But don't come moaning about how survivors brought 4 BNP's, 4 DS's, 3 Unbreakables, and Object of Obsession. You're a survivor who likes to run OoO and make killers DC? Don't complain when they camp and tunnel you.

  • MoundshroudMoundshroud Member Posts: 1,748
    edited September 16

    We agree on SOME of that but there is one glaring exception. I believe the following:

    1. Do not cheat, i.e. use hacks or lag spikes.
    2. Do not disconnect; if you start a game finish it.
    3. Be humble in victory and gracious in defeat, i.e. no salt.

    Where we differ is that little bit about "unsporting" game play you snuck in at the end. That is total, and complete garbage because it is entirely subjective, i.e. the parodied Survivor's Rules for Killers that Samination makes fun of frequently. Everything that is within the rules is sporting, that's it.

  • PlaysByShadyPlaysByShady Member Posts: 93

    You're welcome to disagree with my opinion, but the point was the subjective perspective.

    I like to play in a sporting manner... whether others choose to or not is not within my ability to control. The reason I care about the other side's fun is because I like to play in a sporting manner.

  • EndstilleEndstille Member Posts: 2,246

    Taunting is part of it, deal with it.

    Maybe actually watch sports or do some at some point and realize that taunting is there as well to the same amount as in online games also very good to think that a spraypaint in dota is something to take literally into the real world. Maybe try to find a more fitting comparison.

    Taunting however is not humiliating, that is the part that you do not understand.

  • Tactless_NinjaTactless_Ninja Member Posts: 1,791

    What does being played actually have to do with the argument? They compared chess to checkers then said that's why Wheaties is the breakfast cereal of champs.

  • MoundshroudMoundshroud Member Posts: 1,748

    We will have to agree to disagree. The problem is that your "sporting manner" is a subjective mess that is defined entirely by you, and judging (and shaming) anyone who doesn't play how you would like them to be. By default, if they aren't playing by what you consider a "sporting" way then they are unsportsmanlike? Do you see the clear implication? This is that sneaky move the goalposts thing. Players are responsible for their own fun. This is a competitive PVP game where the rules are completely transparent. Those rules are what define what is sporting and not sporting... NOT you.

  • RizeAkiRizeAki Member Posts: 1,209

    Honestly it’s like some of these people have never played a competitive game. If they really have an issue with a certain part of the game being “unfun” don’t go at the players go at the devs of the game for implementing it and letting it stay for 4 years lmao.

  • Fog_KingFog_King Member Posts: 466

    I mean, this is a game. I think it should be supposed to be fun, for killer and survivor. If there is no fun involved, only frustration, why play at all? And we should be concerned about others feelings because we are all human. That is why I'm against people t-bagging, being toxic all the time and ruining the fun for killers or killers doing their best to be toxic too.

  • EntitledMyersMainEntitledMyersMain Member Posts: 833

    The people who complain about that know that dbd is not and will never be competitive.

  • PlaysByShadyPlaysByShady Member Posts: 93

    Now you're just projecting.

    Yes, "sporting" is mostly subjective... but as for shaming people who don't play the way I consider to be sporting?? You read that in of your own volition.

    The question for this thread was based on an entirely subjective question... why does anyone care about the other side. I've given my reasons that are personal to me. Where you then take that and project other meanings onto it, particularly for other people, is down to you and nothing to do with anything I said.

  • MoundshroudMoundshroud Member Posts: 1,748

    I didn't project, I asked you a question. Do you see the "?" mark? If you, personally, have a way that you define as "sportsmanlike" how are YOU defining people who do not play the way you do? I'm pointing out your rhetorical method has an implication. If YOUR way is the sportsmanlike way, what is left for the people who don't play that way? I'm not projecting, I'm asking you to clarify.

  • AssassinZodiacAssassinZodiac Member Posts: 147

    I'm all for everyone in a match having fun, but I feel like it is not my job as a consumer to worry about the "fun" others are having at any given time. I can only worry about myself. Shouldn't it be the devs job to worry about overall fun of the game, not the end consumer?

  • EnlyneEnlyne Member Posts: 348

    Man, I'm sorry but your examples for other games are very badly picked, DbD is nowhere near being competitive... it doesn't even reward people properly, the pip system is rather flawed, RNG based maps and composition breaks everything regarding the competitive side of this game, there's nothing.

    So I don't know why you people insist so badly in taking this game so seriously? There's better ones to pick for that kind of mentality.

  • MoundshroudMoundshroud Member Posts: 1,748

    I take every game I play seriously. If I didn't, why would I play it? I play to win, and the competition is the fun for me. I'm just stating this so you understand my mindset.

  • EnlyneEnlyne Member Posts: 348

    Then again, how are you not burnt out of this game? Playing to win what? I stress out my point, there's nothing that truly rewards you as much as other games, and in here nothing feels particularly rewarding, it turns to a chore.

  • MoundshroudMoundshroud Member Posts: 1,748

    I'm just not wired that way. If/when I burn out on a game, I move on to another one. Every match is different, a new challenge, so I don't really burn out here. Why? Every Killer is different, every team I pull is different. I haven't gotten bored here yet, because of the constantly changing variables. I see that as a GOOD thing. I understand not everyone is wired the same as me, and my advice to them is if they aren't having fun, find a game they do enjoy. Don't try to change other people (or the game) to match your preferences. Find game which is a good match for you.

  • Kumnut768Kumnut768 Member Posts: 788

    and you complain about tbaggin fl spammin swfs

  • BattleCastBattleCast Member Posts: 495

    Regardless of the genre, you should always care for your opponent. They have feelings just like you do, and just because they’re on the other side doesn’t mean you shouldn’t care for them.

    At the end of the day we all just want to have some fun, and I personally don’t find enjoyment in knowing that I ruined that for them. There are boundaries though, if you go into a match trying to ruin my experience, then I won’t care for your experience either.

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