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Why *Shouldn't* Killers Camp, Tunnel, Mori, NOED etc. ?

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  • StarLostStarLost Member Posts: 5,325

    Am I? When I do find myself camping (never face, always patrol or proxy) it's not to do with the pleasure of killing that survivor (unless it's some dumb daily or quest) - the idea is either to remove something like a souped up toolbox, an Object or simply someone who I consider a high priority kill.

    However, the main purpose isn't usually to kill them. It's to draw multiple players to an area of the map where hopefully I have more favorable terrain, or can easily patrol generators. Especially in games where the survivors are sneaking around in bushes all game.

  • GoodBoyKaruGoodBoyKaru Member Posts: 18,566

    Summarised my own thoughts better than I ever could lol

  • pseudechispseudechis Member Posts: 2,036

    Everyone should just play as they want to play. I've played 10 survivor games today and have been tunneled 4x, face camped 2x and mori'd 4x although 2 of those 4 tunnel and mori overlap as I was tunneled off hook into a mori and you know what... I don't care.

    I had fun, I ran around, I did some gens, I escaped a few times even after an attempted tunnel and if I got mori'd (even after 1 hook) I watched the animation because some of them a really sick, I love em. Then I queued again and still didn't care, thats the best part about this, its a game and it doesn't matter. I de-piped a couple of times, pipped up a couple of times, black pipped and am a level higher than I was when I started but again who cares.

    I've played about 10 killer games one serious hook sabo grief squad that really powered through the gens but with it going south I switched to tunneling out one guy and camping the other in the egc for a very salty 2-2. My response gg wp. I got destroyed tonight for about 6 games and finished out with 3 great games on Hag Trapper and Doc, completeing a few rift challenges. People t-bagged, clickity clicked, pointed, post game chat abused me but again I don't care its a game. At least 6-8 people have keyed out an escape on me tonight and I don't care. I've also had some great post game chuckles with good people who can game like adults, people like that make the game better.

    I also burned 4 moris, one useless netting me only one kill, (they were very good), one totally destroying everyone de-pips single hook mori run with legion for a daily, and the rest I played em if I felt like it. I'm one rank lower today than I was yesterday and I DON'T CARE.

    Its a game its fun, we all need to stop the whining, the moaning, the no counter play, delete mori's/keys cry baby overeactions and just play the game.

    Beacuse its meant to be fun, if its not why play?

    (Numbers are estimates I really don't keep track of this #########, I have a real job to work at this is supposed to be just for fun).

  • AetherBytesAetherBytes Member Posts: 2,154

    This is a bit of a skewed perspective. Many killers actually are nice and play fair, but this has made a lot of survivors expect it and get toxic when they face a "no holds bared" killer. Killers made the book on how to be nice and toxic survivors have twisted it into a rulebook.

  • CorikstarrCorikstarr Member Posts: 23

    I'm just going to echo the sentiment that Killers seem to be held to a different standard than Survivors. I get part of the reason why is because the killer is literally trying to end the match, and sometimes that means a survivor is out super fast. But what is the Killer supposed to do? Politely wait in a corner, facing a wall, while each Survivor gets their full three hooks? That's obviously an exaggeration, but it sometimes feels that way.

    The main problem is that we seem to often forget that the Killer is supposed to have fun also. Yet a lot of salty Survivors seem to be under the impression that anything they personally do to give them the edge (certain perks, body blocking, voice chat, etc) is fair play, and anything the Killer does is rude and trying to ruin their fun. Like a match can never be fun if they don't escape, and screw the fun of the Killer, they don't matter.

    I know it's deeply unpopular with the Survivor main crowd, but I well and truly believe SWF with voice chat is ruining an exceedingly large number of games for the Killer specifically and to a degree, harming the game as a whole. It goes entirely against the spirit of the game, and only serves making things easier for the Survivor and often impossible for Killers. Especially early to mid rank Killers that may just be trying to learn the game still. Killers don't have an equivalent answer to it. They're alone entirely, so it's not like they can just chat with someone to level the field. Now, I know that some SWF are literally just friends playing together, and most of the time, that's fine. I don't mean them. I mean the try hard groups that can never ever let the Killer even have a glimmer of hope, followed by being rude in post game chat to the very Killer that they already likely annoyed for 5-15 minutes. Cause god forbid they have fun too.

    I guess my point is, as long as there are Survivors that can't have fun without a full team escape and don't view the Killer as another person rather than just a punching bag, it's just always going to be this way. Where Survivors cry foul whenever the Killer does anything to counter their own game tilting/sometimes breaking shenanigans. It would just be nice if Survivors were held to some kind of standard of fair play.

  • TricksTricks Member Posts: 957

    If you want to go at it from that angle:

    • Survivors get 2 lives each (totalling 8 - the last 1 each dont count because its their final life)
    • Killers get 16 lives
  • BardBard Member Posts: 657

    Camping

    This one is simple.

    If you camp, you pressure one guy.

    You might get the kill (though between BT, DS, and Bodyblocks who knows), but the 120 seconds it takes somebody to die on hook translates to 360 man-seconds of work that can be done on generators, out of 400 that are required to power the exit gates.

    You also lose rank and get next to no points for it.

    Tunneling

    The killer should tunnel if given the opportunity.

    Thing is, DS exists, so that opportunity rarely arises.

    Always go for the easiest target.

    Mori

    It's boring.

    You get no points.

    You lose rank.

    They're expensive in the bloodweb.

    NoED

    Because the perk just isn't very good.

    Especially with Undying in the mix it's pretty common to see people run Detective's Hunch now, so NoED likely won't survive to endgame.

    Even if it does, this has all the weaknesses of a Tier 3 Myers. If you catch everybody clumped together on the same gen and get a 4-man Slug in the endgame to turn it around, GREAT. That's almost never gonna happen though. You're still pretty easy to loop, and most of the time you're probably gonna get one down (if that), and there's a decent chance they're already injured anyways.

    Why run NoED to maybe clutch the endgame when you can run Haunted Ground for the same number of downs, but at a point in the game where you can still snowball off of them?

  • BabyDweetMainBabyDweetMain Member Posts: 434

    That's not what he said in that video...he said both killers AND survivors followed this honor code. Survivors wouldn't use op crappy perks and neither would killer. It wasn't just killers following the rule.

  • StarLostStarLost Member Posts: 5,325

    This is going to end up as semantic quibbling, isn't it :) ?

    Yes. But as things stand, killers are still expected to adhere to this 'code' while survivors aren't. I could probably have explained my point better.

  • BabyDweetMainBabyDweetMain Member Posts: 434

    I recommend people go watch Tofus actual video cause this post seems like it was trying to bait a killer vs survivor argument with their wording.

  • xeravxerav Member Posts: 392
    edited September 2020

    Tbh most survivor think a Killer HAS to obey these rules (which is wrong: we do it cuz we are nice players or want to challenge ourself).

    Tunneling / Camping (talkin about makin sure a survivor dies after he reached second hook not face camping from the start) is doing your objective a efficient way (and this is a fact).

    Some salty survivor are super offended by Killers abusing their weakness when they do the same by doing gens as fast as possible (you could do it slower when you see the killer is struggling but will you slow down?).

    Noed: Its just a revenge perk after you lost the game a good Killer will bring perks to help win the Game. Nothing wrong with it cuz they can just do bones to counter it and even if they die to noed they still had a full game of making bloodpoints.

    Mori: Pure Bullshit (similar to Keys). Being able to speed up Killing is not very good for the Game (they should only work after 2 hooks).

    So in the end play as you wish (just dont use moris unless the devs force you with dailys and challenges).

  • BabyDweetMainBabyDweetMain Member Posts: 434
    edited September 2020

    No one is saying survivors aren't though...read the posts on the forum. Killers constantly talk about crappy things survivors do that they wish they didn't. Killers even cry for survivors to get nerfed. There's two sides but you're just choosing to paint the survivors poorly here.

  • BioXBioX Member Posts: 1,378

    Sigh this discussion again?

    The devs are pretty fortunate there are so many players who still play the game to have fun and to ACTUALLY win, if all killers would just suddenly turn to camping/tunneling/noed/mori this game would just die and technically there is nothing really preventing that from happening other then...well the people who want to play for fun.


    What value is there in taking candy from a baby? what did you ackomplish? what victory is there to be had? oh right...nothing.

    Its the same with survivors demanding it to be easer to pip about a year or so ago, it directly deminishes the value of a pip or of rank.

    You can cheat in a game and win, congrats? you can also play seriously and not literally use everything to give yourself the edge and the more you do not use, the greater the victory when you end up doing well.


    and apart from all of that...what is fun about just standing there and waiting for people to come to you, each their own sure but I dont see how this motivates anyone to keep playing.

  • StarLostStarLost Member Posts: 5,325

    Sure. I think it makes sense in context.

    The issue is that survivors do not seem to care about the fun of the killer, while the killer is expected to care about the fun of the survivors. And BHVR seem to support this mindset, which is why they got rid of both killer matchmaking and SWF/smurf protection for some reason.

    And no, that's not the sort of camping I'm talking about - unless it's a Blendette with a toolbox or a key.

    When people accuse me of 'camping' it's because I'm patrolling a path that takes me past a hooked survivor at some point. Why wouldn't I? I can force chases to happen where I want and not lose 3 gens without even seeing a survivor, because they are a premade and have a permanent lookout/object.

  • StarLostStarLost Member Posts: 5,325

    Agreed! Which is my initial selection of killers was Hag, Spirit and Doctor. If it's a horror game, I want to hear those buggers scream.

  • BioXBioX Member Posts: 1,378
    edited September 2020

    I mean fun for the other is kinda also fun for you no? because if the other is not having fun then they just dont try anymore and the entire thing is a waste of time.

    But my message goes both ways, I know that when im leveling a character and I happen to pretty much only have meta type perks from the bloodweb, I know that many things I got away with were because the perk carried me, the perk did that for me, that was not me in the slightest so even when I escape or make others escape its just very much with the knowledge that that was just cheap nonsense.

    Survivors running full small pp sweatlord meta builds, again I dont understand the mindset because they should realize that they dont ackomplish anything when they escape, but sometimes I think that that is their point, that the game is broken and killers dont stand a chance against such teams.

    But its all a bit of a nothing burger again because not that many people play at that level that its really a problem and when you do encounter one, well, idk about you but I just start memeing because any notion of serious play was out the window from the start.

    Same as a killer bringing their ebony mori.

  • pseudechispseudechis Member Posts: 2,036

    These are all good reasons not to do some of the things on the list and when to do some of them, but none of them are reasons to tell someone else not to do them. Like I said play how you want to play. There is no rule book anything goes until death or escape.

  • StarLostStarLost Member Posts: 5,325

    Moris are like keys, and I do genuinely avoid using them unless it's evident from the outset that I'm facing a smurfcomp or stompcomp. Or I get one of those annoying quests that essentially require them (the Obsession one...yeah, sorry about those games everyone).

    I'd be happy to see both go, if the Mori quests go with them.

  • StarLostStarLost Member Posts: 5,325

    I find tactical camping to be an invaluable tool. Not standing next to someone and waiting for them to die, but trying to bait survivors into engaging away from areas that they are strong.

    I'm still very much an intermediate killer, but wow - has this been useful, especially against SWF teams who tend to be overly altruistic at times.

  • pseudechispseudechis Member Posts: 2,036

    It can be. Its just part of the game.

    Like knowing when to drop a chase because the guy your on is in strong spot and will likely loop you for several gens. At no point does the looping guy stop and say we've looped this enough lets run toi the next thing for more fun. You as killer have to force them off the loop, just as a coordinated team can bait a killer away from a hook.

    It's not the most effecient tactic but it has its place like everything else. Especially against overly alturistic teams.

    Best game today was a three basement hook killer shack lockdown with trapper.

  • pseudechispseudechis Member Posts: 2,036

    I typically bring a mori for the last couple of games of the night. Its just a bit of fun. When they get used is often dictated by how much its snowballing for or against me in the match. If its 2-3 gens and I'm on 1-2 hooks then if I find a hooked guy he's probably getting mori'd, nothing personal just business.

  • StarLostStarLost Member Posts: 5,325

    Yeah, I'm not an especially good chaser. Which is why I prefer less sweaty, more tactical killers like Hag, Doctor and Wraith. I tend to pick a three gen position right off the bat and defend it while patrolling out when it feels safe. I tend to drop a lot of chases after one hit and focus more on disruption and attrition. Doing decently off it too, and the reactions of people when I just won't commit to a chase warm my heart.

  • Marc_go_soloMarc_go_solo Member Posts: 2,672

    Camping is - in a large number of cases - self-defeating. Really, unless it's securing a hook during the endgame or knowing another Survivor is close by, there would be no solid meaning in doing this. It's definitely allowed but it would only disadvantage that one Survivor. The rest can blitz through to the endgame, easily beat the Killer and basically give the Killer a boring match.

    Tunnelling can help. If I get the chance, I'll down an unhooked survivor, but won't rehang them. DS is always a probability. Yet knocking them out delays the game and is a good tactic to keep people off gens. Plus, Survivors have the option of BT, or their savior taking a protective hit. There's also the idea of out-playing the Killer to escape a down.

    NOED has been discussed so many times that it's just dull to talk about. It's a powerful endgame perk which may/ may not be used and has counters. Nothing wrong with it.

    Moris. Now, I wouldn't be unaccepting of a nerf, providing Keys are too. Both add-ons provide the player with a way to end games early. It wouldn't work if either were nerfed but not the other. In the meantime, there's no reason not to use either.

    Basically, in a game of survival such as this you use whatever you have to achieve your objective.

  • SloppyKnockoutSloppyKnockout Member Posts: 1,505

    Yeah, nah. Screw that. Killers aren't survivors babysitters or vice versa. Either side is not obligated to provide a fun experience to the other side.

  • YesImLuluYesImLulu Member Posts: 7

    I'm a survivor main and it really upsets me when I see other survivors being toxic as ######### to killers in the chat after a match for things like so-called "tunnelling". I always call them out on their bullshit and I hope this helps the killers in these situations to feel less upset by it. If a killer tunnels a survivor, it's because someone unhooked the survivor at the wrong time/in the wrong way. Or the person who was unhooked just started running and leaving scratch marks everywhere/fast vaulting like a loony and then blames the killer for "tunnelling" when they find them and down them again. So frustrating to see killers essentially get screamed at for that. I'm not a fan of games where the killer camps, though, I must say. Only because it feels like a really boring and cynical way to play the game and it diminishes the fun for me. Killers can and do win without playing passively all the time, so it just feels really unnecessary to me. Having said all of that, I don't think it's my place to tell killers they shouldn't camp. They can make the game boring if they want.

  • Customapple0Customapple0 Member Posts: 629

    Untold rules, survivors seem to have them as well.

    1) Not allowed to bring keys

    2) Not allowed to play with friends

    3) Not allowed to play aggressively with BT & DS

    4) Not allowed to run the killer around for more than 30s.

    5) Not allowed to play as Blendette

    *Breaking any of these rules makes you liable to be camped, tunnelled or be mori.

  • whammigobambamwhammigobambam Member Posts: 1,061

    You should do whatever you want all this over powered add on perk item crap needs to be toned down on both sides. Until then just play however you are able to enjoy this mess.

  • skarsgutsskarsguts Member Posts: 179

    A killer can play scummy if they want to. 9 out of 10 killers I face at rank 1 camp, tunnel, and mori off first hook. There's no consequence, I just have to deal with it.

    The problem is the devs thinking this is okay when really they should want a survivor to live longer than 2 minutes in a match. Camping and tunneling should not be promoted, yet they consider it a legitimate strategy.

    Killers playing this way has only caused a tremendously negative impact on the game and community.. but the devs just.. don't care? Yeah.

    They'll release band-aid perks and incentives to killers to not remove a survivor out of the match in the first 90 seconds, but killers do not care and will just continue to be rewarded for playing this way - proven by the fact rank 1 killers play this way.

    In fact, just yesterday I faced a rank 1 6,000 hour clown that tunneled Nea off hook both times, ignoring me body blocking the entire time just to kill her. She disconnected, rightfully so. No toxicity by survivors, he did it to everyone. I killed myself on hook to not deal with it but if I was Nea I would have also disconnected.

    This isn't a one time thing. This is 98% of my matches and it makes the game terrible to play. Thinking survivors have the power role or are favored is idiotic.

  • yobudddyobuddd Member Posts: 2,067

    Woah, sorry there. This wasn’t meant as an insult in any way. (Message lost in text and all that...)

    What I meant was that killer’s are self-serving — from a lore perspective. OP used that angle to frame his question, so that’s how I meant the answer.

    Strategically, there may be reasons to camp, tunnel, etc. Lore-wise, a killer’s mindset is to spread around pain and anguish to the greatest extent possible.

  • darktrixdarktrix Member Posts: 1,790

    You're not expected to follow any code...if you want to win no matter how you go about it, then that's on you. I personally don't camp, tunnel, mori, noed, etc. because when I win I want it to be because I was good enough to do it myself without having to use any of those easy mode tactics.

    It's an asymmetric game, which some people like to only remember when it is convenient for them to do so. It's why survivors do what they can to survive, otherwise their play time is over...they are out of the game. Killers are never at risk of being eliminated from a match.

    Camping, tunneling, mori, whatever is pretty much equivalent in joy to facing a fully coordinated SWF - sure fight fire with fire, but most players are not in coordinated SWF, yet many killers will treat all survivors as if they were. Now you get that kind of treatment several games in a row, and you start to question why are you even bothering in the first place.

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