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Killer Main - DS needs to become basekit



  • EvilJoshyEvilJoshy Member Posts: 2,137

    It is dumb and it's scary the number of people who think killers should play that way.

  • RizeAkiRizeAki Member Posts: 1,192

    Anytime I see “killer main” all I think of is r/that happened. Where they always start with true story. I could believe it more if you didn’t put that in there. Still ds should not be base kit,you just have to get better at the game. No need to punish the other side for playing better then you, especially when your side has 4 people.

  • TreSenTreSen Member Posts: 146
    edited September 24

    Yes. Yes I really do.

    I play Killer/Survivor about 90/10. The only time I ever have an issue with DS is against 4-man squads who abuse the [BAD WORD] out of how it currently works. In nearly all my games, I never even trigger it, and I understand why pretty much every survivor carries it.

    I understand because the 10% of the time I'm playing survivor, I run into killers that tunnel the [BAD WORD] out of the weakest player nearly every single match. So many killers are boosted by tunneling that as someone who finds the challenge of playing killer very enjoyable, it's [BAD WORD] sickening. If killers can't win without tunneling, they should lose. They should lose again and again until they finally get better and their rank goes up for the right reasons. That's how I got good at it. I've seen other killers win at red ranks without tunneling, so it isn't just me, either. But it's way, way, way more rare than it should be.

    It's ruining the game, and I'd rather not see this game die because the survivor playerbase just gets too fed up with that bullshit. If I want to play killer, I need survivors to play so I can kill them. Really that simple.

    So yes. I want to see DS be basekit. And I want it to be a version that isn't the current version where it's abuse-able if you are four people coordinating on Discord.

    My ideal version is this:

    -DS has a 60 second timer. The timer goes down 1/3 as fast so long as you are engaged in chase. It goes down three as fast the moment you initiate cleansing a totem, repairing a generator, healing yourself, or healing another survivor and continues to do so until the timer expires.

    -The timer immediately expires when someone else enters the dying state, so long as you were not in the dying state yourself.

    -The timer immediately expires if you unhook another player.

    -Your scratch marks and blood trails are not visible for the duration of the stun. Your pain sounds are completely muted, even vs stidor.

    -Reusable through the match, not just once.

    -Cannot activate after all 5 generators have been finished or if you are the last survivor.

    P.S.: My mains are nurse, oni, billy, wraith, pig and now blight so I'm not getting carried by EZ freddy and spirit wins either

  • Gravewalker200Gravewalker200 Member Posts: 409

    as a surv main I agree except for the terror radius one which can be abused by certain killers and perks

  • SurpriseSurpriseSurpriseSurprise Member Posts: 798

    Yeah, that's more to the point. One of the matches where I saw there was no obsession, I knew I could just whip right back around and get that person re-hooked instantly. Think they ended up only scoring 1.8K BP since they just got re-hooked immediately (No Exhaustion perks or even DS, must have been a newer player).

    And yeah, when I play Killer I usually just assume everyone has DS, BT and Unbreakable, so for me that playstyle really wouldn't even change. Just ever since I've started to play Survivor I've noticed how ungodly boring it is if you get tunneled intentionally and don't have that to at least give you some semblance of gameplay.

  • SurpriseSurpriseSurpriseSurprise Member Posts: 798

    Yeah, would make survivor gameplay more interesting. But at the same time that would require a huge balance overhaul to keep things in line.

  • GhostyyBoiGhostyyBoi Member Posts: 398

    I found the impostor

  • SurpriseSurpriseSurpriseSurprise Member Posts: 798

    If you don't tunnel, why is DS countering you? (It's the duration, I know, which is why I specified a watered down version)

  • SurpriseSurpriseSurpriseSurprise Member Posts: 798

    I run Make Your Choice and Devour Hope on a Ghostface as my go-to setup, I literally do not want to Tunnel to make use of my perks (and with ghosty I can counter BT to some degree). Ever since I've started to play Survivor more though, (trying out different builds), I've noticed how at some points it nearly becomes mandatory to have DS if the Killer is intent on tunneling, or your teammates are absolute morons when it comes to unhooking (even with Kindred).

  • Alphasoul05Alphasoul05 Member Posts: 121

    Yeah I lie about my main to make my idiotic argument more relevant, too.

  • SurpriseSurpriseSurpriseSurprise Member Posts: 798

    Yeah, I guess I'm a Hybrid main. Last reset was Rank 1 Killer Rank 2 Survivor, and now Rank 3 and 4 respectively after some playtime since the reset.

  • MrPenguinMrPenguin Member Posts: 541
    edited September 24

    Getting a survivor out the game ASAP is optimal. So in other words tunneling 1-2 survivors down is optimal the same way finishing a gen is. Tunnel gens, tunnel friends. It'd be like having a killer perk that blocks a gen for 60 seconds once it hits 33%.

    If its ok for survivors to tunnel gens it should be no problem that killers tunnel kills, but whatever, survivor handbook I guess.

  • azameazame Member Posts: 2,334

    If that is the ptb post in the official nerf post they also stated using DS outside of tunneling us smart. I will try to find it and post it in a bit.

    It's not a solely anti tunnel that's why it has a skill check.

    It's not nerfing the killers ability to finish their objective they cant just do it in one go. So in other words you want to be able to delete a survivor in 2 minutes. Which would kill the player base because of how you cant even play.

    Slugging buys you time especially if the survivor is gonna stun you if you pick then up. Also it is going towards tour objective killing survivors they are on a bleed out timer.

  • azameazame Member Posts: 2,334

    Those are actual entitled survivor mains they arent very good.

  • MewMew Member Posts: 1,158

    just make an obsession automatically spawn, even if there’s isnt an obsession perk in play.

    killers shouldn’t be able to tunnel freely without the chance of them getting dsed

  • SurpriseSurpriseSurpriseSurprise Member Posts: 798

    My gripe with this is: why make it a façade, just make the damned thing base-kit. Don't make it chance based on if the Killer is willing to take the risk that maybe the UI is lying to them. Just literally make it part of the core game mechanics. Do I think it would need revision over the current iteration of DS? Yeah. Duration/Deactivation tweak, EGC consideration, etc.

    Hell, make it so that when a Survivor is unhooked, part of the hook comes off in their hand or something.

  • AwakeyAwakey Member Posts: 2,991

    It's already easy enough.

    I couldn't care less if DS is baseline. I just eat it and down then 10-15 seconds later.

  • SurpriseSurpriseSurpriseSurprise Member Posts: 798

    Man, if all you want from this game is "I Win" without any kind of ruleset, just figure out how to hack it and force a win every match.

    I don't like tunneling because it's a dirty (but valid, I know), approach with one side essentially having zero engagement unless they utilize a standard perk (or rely on their teammates to have BT). It's really a lack of diversity for enabling any gameplay for this particular scenario. (Kinda like how the meta for Killers now is Unyielding and Ruin, but at least there's an objective tied to it, tunneling is literally the same objective for the Killer, and the tunneled survivor doesn't get to interact with any objective)

  • aregularplayeraregularplayer Member Posts: 855

    Making DS an antitunelling perk is so easy: Make it have no timer, once unhooked it activates. But it should inactivate when you get fully healed or when you start doing gens or unhook somebody else. Easy like that, but devs are too busy creating new bugs they can't think obvious perk corrections.

  • EvilJoshyEvilJoshy Member Posts: 2,137

    When people have DS and they deliberately get in your face it's not tunneling if they come to you.

    What if I'm doing very well and I just happen to down someone again and forget they were hooked not too long ago?

  • SurpriseSurpriseSurpriseSurprise Member Posts: 798

    For the first point, I mean at that point just slug 'em. I'm not against downing the survivor off of hook, since at the very least they can do something, as minimal as it is, it's the immediate unhook/down/hook that I don't like, which DS is mainly used to counter, which I feel should have a base-kit version rather than needing to use a specific perk locked behind a DLC character.

    Second point, that would be in the realm of getting used to the game. If there was a base-kit version, I'd like to see it have a duration of 18s so it's something that prevents a simple unhook/down/hook (at the very least penalizes just standing around waiting for it to disappear, while also not being too long as to allow Unbreakable 99% to be possible if you do really just want to tunnel someone). Though this would probably need to be workshopped.

  • HoneyBadgerHoneyBadger Member Posts: 18

    I face an afk deathslinger before and good thing I had ds. D's needs to stay the same if not alot of scummy killers will get free kills for not doing sh.it in the match. But maybe turn timer off when the killer isn't after you or when you heal a health state. So yeah I think it needs to be a basekit

  • whammigobambamwhammigobambam Member Posts: 639

    Or just make all games have a obsession no matter what.

  • DetailedDetrimentDetailedDetriment Member Posts: 1,782

    Because DS does literally nothing against powerful killers. DS will barely phase an average Nurse, yet people want it nerfed.

    Allow Enduring to work with DS and every killer will run it and tunnel each and every game. There is a reason it was changed in the first place.

  • MrPenguinMrPenguin Member Posts: 541

    I don't want to, but that's the way the game is designed. I understand tunneling is annoying and I don't do it myself, but there's a pretty big double standard that survivors can finish a gen "in one go" and its fine but killers can't. If they can't finish it in the optimal way then yes that is nerfing it.

    I'd rather the hook mechanic be reworked entirely to make tunneling no longer optimal.

    Unless you plan to let them bleed out till death, it does nothing to progress your objective. Slugging can sometimes buy you time, not always. It's situational, and DS forces them to slug and get no progress, or get the stun and be in an even worse situation. It's a lose-lose. It's not the stun alone, it's the first chase + stun + free health state + another chase. You already wasted time downing the survivor, the choice becomes waste more time and give them a free heal or try and leave them down, with no progress on your end, so at least they are not doing something for a bit; and you already wasted the time chasing them while the gens are still going from their teammates. It's not always a good idea to slug, DS forces it to be whenever the survivor decides.

    It's not a problem with the players, it's a problem with the game design.

  • MrPenguinMrPenguin Member Posts: 541
    edited September 25

    If we're going to put rules on one side we should put them on the other as well.

    You don't want killers to tunnel? Don't tunnel the gens. Don't unhook 2 seconds after they got hooked and expect the killer to just leave. Don't run into the killers face while you have DS/BT just to abuse it.

    You don't want moris? Don't bring in keys.

    I don't want just "I win" I don't know how you got that idea. I just think its hypocritical for survivors to whine and put rules on what killers do to win while anything they do is fine. If we have a survivor handbook we need a killer handbook as well. The survivor handbook is the only one expected to be followed right now.

  • azameazame Member Posts: 2,334

    It's not a double standard when finishing a gen in one go isnt deleting a player from the game entirely. That's why tunneling is looked down upon survivors are humans too and want to play. Tunneling is not the optimal play when DS and good loopers.

    Doesnt matter If you are letting them bleed out or not. It's still technically progressing their death and now someone has to come get them that's two people off gens which you are trying to make out to seem not enough.

    It's never a lose lose when you are still getting pressure. How is a it a waste of time when they are off gens?! Like everything you are saying is off some weirdly specific situation or how the team is extremely optimal. Slugging gives you pressure it is always the right decision when dealing with DS.

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