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It feels like the developers are completely out of touch about what happens in the game

Now let me say first off that i don't think that stuff should be nerfed or buffed just because a vocal minority says so.

What i do think is that all the balancing that has been done so far and is still going on on the PTB is stuff aimed at people between the ranks of 13-6.

You guys have the ''fog whisperers'' and some of those are extremely knowledgeable players that play both survivor and killer and have some very fair complaints and criticism.

I'm not saying killer or survivor is the strongest right now because both suffer from pretty bad balancing depending on the situation.

For example:

-DS and BT are one of the if not the most used perk right now, they didn't get balanced for almost half a year now

-Some killers (let's use spirit as an example) are way stronger than every other killer due to their mobility or impossible mind games for the survivors

-Some killers barely see the light of day and fairly so because they are just way weaker than average (example, pig, legion and deathslinger). when they do get picked it's mostly for the enjoyment of their abilities and not because of their viability

-In my personal opinion i also believe that gen speed is a bit too fast and that opinion does get shared by some other more experienced players than me.

These are just some of the biggest points that i can think of right now but my point is that these are issues that are clear as day and are also very common complaints from both sides so this all boils down to 1 question i have.

Are the people that do the balancing really that disconnected from the state of the game because they have a group of very smart fog whisperers from which i'm sure they can get some proper feedback if asked.

The reason i made a post like this is because i enjoy the game a lot and play it daily without exception and i hate to see it like this.



  • Marc_go_soloMarc_go_solo Member Posts: 2,631

    I actually think Perks and Killers vary in power similar to a difficulty level. Granted, Nurse and Spirit in the right hands is a nightmare to face, especially compared to Legion.

    However, with practice Legion can be lethal. Takes time to learn, but any Killer can be monstrous! If all Killers were balanced equal, there is no difficulty to compete against.

    I like how some Killers are weaker than offers, because when you 4K with a weak Wraith build, you know you're good.

    Accept the challenge and see how well you can do.

  • AcromioAcromio Member Posts: 1,737
    edited September 2020

    lmao. They nerfed a harmless perk for no reason and removed a debuff from another pathetic perk that barely sees any use as is in exchange for a (guaranteed to be) negligible qol change. I'd hardly call those things buffs.

    Furthermore, they made Pyramid Head even more of a laughing stock than what he already is.

    They're meaningless because, first of all, hook suicides are counted as deaths. Second, both the Depip Squad experiment and the most recent tournament hosted by that famous streamer whose name I can't remember, completely contradict those laughable stats.

  • AcromioAcromio Member Posts: 1,737
    edited October 2020

    Placebo changes at best. Again, the lst torunament hosted by that famous streamer whose name I can't remember proved once and for all that the game is essentially no different than when the Depip Squad experiment took place.

    Post edited by Acromio on
  • SlashstreetboySlashstreetboy Member Posts: 1,811

    They contradict BHVRs overall stats because in the lower and medium skill brackets survivors get slaughtered left and right.

    I´m sure mostly everyone with enough experience in DBD will agree that the balance shifts more in favor of the Survivors the higher the players skill becomes. This is why in competetive play you will hardly ever see an "M1 Killer". Those just don´t have the tools to combat strong loopers efficiently enough.

    In my optionion the DEVs are caught between a rock and a hard place. If Survivors were nerfed too hard across the board it would get even worse for the majority of players. If they don´t, the dedicated killer playerbase will continue to suffer in the high ranks.

    Maybe if they one day finally manage to implement a working MMR system we can chill on that topic a bit more. The sweat squads will get an adequate challenge by facing great Nurses and Spirits back to back while the rest of the playerbase can have their relatively balanced game.

  • FFirebranddFFirebrandd Member Posts: 1,848

    Ok, so maybe this patch isn't addressing exactly what you want. That doesn't make it a bad patch. I honestly can't say any of the things they changed didn't need it.

    PH was way too good at putting Survivors into no win situations, but his power was kind of too risky outside of that. It appears that they are making it harder to do that but making PotD more generally useful. He's been a hot topic on the forums for quite a while and this... tentatively sounds like a good change for him.

    Trail of Torment, Forced Penance, Blood Pact, Any Means Necessary, Cruel Limits, Mindbreaker, Slippery Meat, and We're Gonna Live Forever all definitely needed buffs. They aren't the only ones by any means... but they probably can't buff every perk that needs something in one go. Honestly they hit a LOT of the perks that commonly show up on those "Worst Perks" threads that happen every so often.

    For Thana and Technician, I can definitely see why they would want to rework them and think their changes have a good shot at making the perks better overall.

    For the People should have released with a score event, but better late than never.

    The timer on Pop was honestly way too forgiving. Its not like that'll make the perk non functional or even push it to not be either the best or second best regression perk vs Ruin + Undying.

    The fact that not all perks maxed out at the same rarity did in fact make it annoying to find stuff sometimes. Standardizing that is a good thing, even if it does make things a little more expensive BP wise.

  • FirePhoenix115FirePhoenix115 Member Posts: 8
    edited September 2020

    I know that they want to focus on balancing per patch but i honestly do not believe that PH was the one they should have taken first, yes he is on the strong side but he is one of the only killers that can actually pose a decent threat to good survivors without being utterly broken (spirit hag and nurse) because the broken ones can just ignore pallets and vaults like no other.

    And it's not about them adressing exactly what i want it's them adressing unbalanced aspects that have been common and known for such a long time now and has been voiced by countless community members. trust me i have some very specific balancing that i personally would want but this is not it.

  • MrPeterPFLMrPeterPFL Member Posts: 636

    In time guys, in time. They can’t change every perk in one patch, I’m pretty sure they said every Mid Chapter Perks will be looked at. Be patience.

  • notstarboardnotstarboard Member Posts: 3,636
    edited September 2020

    Would you prefer comprehensive numbers that include DCs, afk depipping Wraiths, hatch escapes in games where survivors didn't finish a single gen, moris, hook suicides, iri head/infantry belt, etc., or anecdotes? I'm not saying the kill rate has to be 50% in order for the game to be balanced and anything more or less than means it favors one side or another. Still 70% is an extremely high kill rate in a game where the EGC exists. It's worth considering that many DCs and hook suicides occur in games where the killer is ahead anyway. I don't think there's any chance that just removing matches with those would drop the kill rate under 50%.

    Edit: "Just look at red ranks"

    Kill rates were higher at red rank as of the most recent stats drop. You might not like that matches with DCs are included, but the same sorts of matches are included in the overall and red rank totals. Unless you think highly-skilled players are also disproportionately likely to throw matches, maybe red rank isn't as survivor sided as you think.

    I'm curious what your justification is for the game never having been killer sided. I don't think there's any actual evidence of that, but we do have evidence to the contrary.

  • ZCerebrateZCerebrate Member Posts: 641

    1) For the most part this is true since strange metas developed in Hexy's latest one due to how their scoring was done - lots of face camping to eliminate someone out of the match asap with survivor scoring being more integral for the win for that particular team since both roles were played by each team.

    2) Anecdotally I would say this just isn't true... see plenty of instant disconnects and suicide on first hooks in solo queue on VERY winnable games usually because the first survivor chased gets downed "too fast" and the killer isn't a pepega to fall for super common techs (Oh wow the killer turned around and didn't get window teched at shack! Then.. then he baited out my Dead Hard by looking up at the sky!!). This is watching it as a survivor with Bonds or being on the killer side that I can basically picture their rage (also rescuing one of these individuals during their attempts to suicide on hook just makes them rush the killer hoping to die asap).

    On a final note: I will agree that across the board the level of most players (survivors) are fairly low even at Red Ranks so I can see where high kill numbers coming out. My personal tracker from September 9th to September 24th at R1 reflects more "wins" in my book since the Hatch Escapes are 3 Kills + 1 person hatching out so that rests somewhere in that 70% range you're talking about

  • notstarboardnotstarboard Member Posts: 3,636
    edited September 2020

    I agree that you'll sometimes see those DCs and hook suicides after a terrible first chase, but that's still a rarity, especially if we're trying to say that this is more than a small factor in why kill rates are supposedly inflated.

    It's interesting to see your data on it, and it definitely looks like it ties out well with the most current averages we have. I'm always wary of going off of anecdotal evidence, especially since after what I've noticed since Crossplay has gone live. I feel like I'm surviving a lot more as survivor now and also killing a lot more as killer, probably because rank-based matchmaking is just less sufficient when matching people of different platforms. I'm red rank for both, but it feels like I've just been getting matched with less skilled players on average since Crossplay has been on.

    Edit: Also, 84 keys in 217 games? That's absurdly high! Not sure what's up with that.

  • FFirebranddFFirebrandd Member Posts: 1,848

    Honestly I think what happened was they just recently hit a point where they felt they had enough data to take a shot at addressing issues with the Silent Hill DLC and wanted to address all of them at the same time. Hence PH, and all of the kind of meh perks of his and Cheryl getting changed. They seem to like taking a shot at a set of things that are logically connected... which I can understand. They did a similar thing with last mid chapter patch where they addressed the chain saw bros.

    Then after they finished the SH stuff... they had some extra time so they took a shot at a handful of the perks that... pretty much everyone agrees are bad.

    Did Spirit or DS/UB or whatever else need addressed first? Maybe... but maybe they just haven't figured out what exactly is the best course of action on those things yet, but they did have good ideas for the SH stuff so they went with that.

  • but thats a tournament, the best of the best tryharding to win, the tournament doesn't represent the other 99% of the game's population. Is the game balanced in the top tier of players in comms? no. If you are rank one are you going against those teams every game? no. Is the game completely balanced? no. But saying that nothing is getting done to improve it and that the devs love the survivors and thats why the game is survivor sided is wrong.

  • gibblywibblywoogibblywibblywoo Member Posts: 3,773

    It gets even better when you remember survivors weren't allowed to use full meta builds and only 2 of each perk were allowed. We didnt even get to see a 4 man meta build squad. Also a few killers even had an easier time due to the DS bug.

  • Kind_LemonKind_Lemon Member Posts: 2,559

    I would say it's a mixture. From the comments on Clown from the head of balance, I can safely say that the people making design choices often have no experience or idea how specific parts of the game experience feel for the majority of players invested in playing. However, I can also safely say that on the occasions that the devs know exactly what is going on, they choose to prioritize monetization over enjoyment of the gameplay/leveling/etc.

  • ZCerebrateZCerebrate Member Posts: 641
    edited September 2020

    84 Keys are just including keys I see in the scorescreen (meaning they brought it in) - while the Keyed escape number can be keys they found ingame as well from chests. I've had multiple games where people bring 4 Purple/Pink keys though and still get 4K'd. Maybe there is some word released somewhere that Keys and Moris are being hit with a balance patch soon because they're noticeably out by storm on both sides now (at least for me).

    I usually put up a "Meta Snapshot" for survivors every month or so and finally I'm starting to see some "Counter-totem" perks starting to go up in prevalence considering Blight's teachable Undying becoming more common - I was hoping to see it as raw numbers faster but at least people are coming around.

  • SnakeSound222SnakeSound222 Member Posts: 4,461

    I don't think it's that, it's just that Survivors are their cash cows.

  • notstarboardnotstarboard Member Posts: 3,636
    edited September 2020

    Wow, yeah maybe people have heard something! I'll keep an eye out for that meta snapshot btw - sounds interesting.

  • Warcrafter4Warcrafter4 Member Posts: 2,695

    Unless new stats have been released that I can't find the "latest" stats are about a year old and the devs themselves have said they are bunk.

    When we are talking about massively outdated stats that even the devs themselves have said you shouldn't trust those stats then I believe we should stop bringing them up.

  • ZozzyZozzy Member Posts: 3,656

    They made some maps slightly smaller while also making sure they kept every tile in the map and even added some. The changes on some maps aren't noticeable and other maps that were always and still are disgustingly large and survivor sided remain unchanged. Mothers dwelling, ormond, haddonfield.

    The school maps are still a joke because they boarded up the school but made every other tile stronger.

    The house of pain is still disgusting and still has a god pallet and a window on both iterations, while sometimes having all windows open.

    The space between tiles is survivor favored and the tile spawns are often able to be strung together with minimal effort with zero mindgame potential for the killer due to the large gaps and holes in the walls.

  • notstarboardnotstarboard Member Posts: 3,636

    Yep, 11/2019. Where did the devs say not to trust these, though, and why? "People need to stop whining about balance" is different than "We actually messed up our count, our bad".

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