DS does need changes and fast!
azame
Member Posts: 2,870
Alright so gonna edit this to make more sense.
1. I want to remove DS for about 1 month not a week. This is to showcase why tunneling as a whole needs to be looked at and not have a band aid perk fix.
2. I feel like DS being a perk to stop tunneling was fine as it had an added benefit but now that its most likely only gonna stop tunneling I see no reason for it to he a perk. Not to mention you have to pay for this perk to stop something you can do for free as a killer.
These were my main points. I hope the psit makes more sense now. I'm very worried for the survivor future gonna be another patch 2.0. The start of another nerf era.
Post edited by azame on
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Comments
Tunneling (and camping) need to be punishable, yes. The band-aid perks we have are not enough. I've ran into 6,000 hour rank 1 killers that hard tunnel off hook. It's pathetic and needs to end.
I'd love to use a different perk in place of DS but I can't because I want to be in a match longer than 5 minutes.
Yes, lets make survivors who tunnel gens punishable! It needs to stop!
You're talking about how we need the perk because of tunneling while simultaneously talking about liking the perk because of its anti-momentum form and not its anti-tunneling function. That's contradictory. People have also been mad about DS for years, even after each of its "reworks" that still left it in a busted state.
You're admitting that you and others only like the perk because it can be abused as anti-momentum.
While not your intention clearly, you basically affirmed why there's an issue with the perk and why people are justified in their complaints about it.
Oh boi...
First, which perk are you talking about that got nerfed twice? If it is DS; this is a plain buff. That's why the pickrate is that high, compared to the pickrate before It was "first down usage" instead of "after hook usage".
The most changes requested by everyone would make it a better anti tunnel perk, because it "should" deactivate when you are not tunneled and it stays up longer when you are tunneled. If you need DS to have fun because of tunneling, then the new version is better. For killers as well btw, because they get hit less by DS when they actually are not tunneling.
The only reason why nobody got mad at this perk is because it became an agressive tool for many people, it straight got stronger. No reason actually to be mad at that. When I run it to not get tunneled, I almost never make use of it. Like every 5th game maybe.
btw nice bait title
What's exactly wrong with making DS only anti-tunnel perk insted of anti-momentum ? It means it will get buffed to prevent tunneling more and nerfed in ways that allow it progress the match free of danger from killers hooking you. I can't see why would such changes make the perk suddently bad.
Also why should tunneling be punishable ? Playing efficiently to kill off someone asap is nothing that would warrant punishing. Toxic tunneling/camping is something no perk or baseline game change will ever stop. If killer wants to grief you by killing only you fast while throwing the game, nothing can really stop him.
I play survivor almost never using DS and I don't have even half as much problems with tunneling killers as people who run DS every game. Times I get tunneled really fast are mainly those where I played badly and was easy to catch, that's my fault, not killers for capitalizing on me playing bad.
I like its anti momentum because it justified needing to:
Pay for a perk to prevent being deleted in 2 minutes .
Also I do like its anti tunneling but having to pay for that is ludicrous especially when killer dont have to pay to delete you faster than you can earn bp. I also wouldn't call it abuse because the same devs who claim tis anti tunnel said its smart to be used outside of it but idk these guys are liars and contradict themselves so much. Only when it validates DS being anti tunnel is everyone quick to believe them correct? Problem leaving dbd anyways survivors will killed in the next couple of months to come.
I don’t think you know old DS, and are just parroting something you read. DS could be used when you wanted it before, you could use it after first hook, after 2nd hook. There was no timer. If you’d like to go back to that, and having to dribble survivors, be my guest
Not bait it does needs changes to the entire perk.
in relation to 'The only reason nobody got mad at this perk for being anti tunnel was that it had an anti momentum benefit. Mind you this is a paid perk so not only if you want to jot he deleted you have to pay for it.' 1:Why exactly would someone be mad at a perk for having anti tunnel benefits, and if they were mad about that why would anti momentum benefits cancel those out? 2:it's already been in the shrine 11 times and likely will be again so you don't have to pay for it, and likewise it is not needed to survive or have fun is you later say 'You shouldn't need a paid perk to have fun in this video game'.
'How about make changes to tunneling and not neuter a good perk' what changes do you suggest they make to tunneling? also if they removed the anti tunnel aspect from DS there would be more reason to 'neuter' it.
There us no build variety when all the builds I run have t ok have DS because killer csnt resist tunneling. So let's jsut remove DS and bt for a week and see hoe matches go. Ik there are some respectable killers but alot of them are just...tunnelers at heart.
That efficient killing method not only removes a player before they can play the game but it isnt very fun to verse. The other side is humans not an ai so they have to be considered it's kinda crazy right?
Once again that's nice kebek but it happens just because it doesnt happen to you it happens.
So what's your first paragraph about? And what exactly were your suggestions of what and why it needs changes? All I got was "nerf tunneling"
"I like its anti momentum because it justified needing to:
Pay for a perk to prevent being deleted in 2 minutes ."
Anti-momentum and being too strong is justified to you because it's a paid DLC...you're serious?
A perk being with a paid DLC should never be a justification for a power level, that wouldn't make any sense at all.
People want it to only be anti-tunnel and even better at anti-tunnel than it is now (such as timer pausing in chase among others). No survivors should be upset over a change that makes them get tunneled even less...
The only people that can be upset with this change are people that abused the perk for more than it was intended.
If you play between 11pm-3am, you’ll get ranked with all sorts of killers and survivors, I’ve been running without DS or Adrenaline for the past month. In 35 Out of 38 games where there was no obsession, killer immediately tunneled unhook survivors into the ground. Being that I had a lot of purple/green/yellow ranks, this made games very unfun, and I would have to BT save before struggle/death to buy as much time as possible. Killers were Red/Purple/Green. Because there was no obsession, it was a license to tunnel.
if someone truly believes if DS was gone killers wouldn’t tunnel, you’re living in a dream world and lying to yourself.
Bad read then. I did not say that you HAD to use it first down. Btw the dribble was fixed by making the skillcheck appear earlier. Besides that it is not relevant how the perk exactly works and I did not try to point that out. I was just referencing the pickrate at that time.
FYI I started Nov 2017 and do indeed know the old DS and pickrate
Someone would be mad because it's a paid doc! Having the anti momentum benefits makes the perk better and worth being paid for. It's been in the shrine 11 times but guess what. What if in working or in school or just not playing the game. I've only seen DS in the shrine once playing.
I've missed all those other ones. It's not needed all the time but the majority if the killer finds out you dont have it they will tunnel. You can keep trying to defend this way of playing or defend the fact they are gonna kill this perk, then kill more survivor tools. It is gonna be patch 2.0 all over again.
Getting tunneled out is not fun that's why you need it to have fun. No let's just disable the perk for a couple of days. I want to see hke that turns out.
The change suggested that I liked most was giving it no timer at all, but deactivates after progressing the game state by, repairing a gen, doing a totem or unhooking or healing a fellow survivor. A variation on this I would personally prefer is that it also can be used twice if you are in fact tunelled twice.
Once again why do I have to pay for a perk to stop a killer from doing something for free. You never commented on that. Why do I have to pay to be protected from tunneling? Gonna leave it at that because you have no answer. This DS change is going to be the start to a bunch of survivor nerfs. Back to back to back Im guessing.
I have an answer, the reason it wasn't answered is because that wasn't the point of the post.
Tunneling should be fixed at base, hardly anyone would disagree with that.
The reason it wasn't answered is because as I said earlier, you're argument was in favor of the perk because it was anti-momentum, not anti-tunnel. So you referencing back to the perk being needed because of tunneling is a strawman argument.
We're talking about making the perk BETTER for stopping tunneling.
You keep acting like you need the perk because of tunneling, while openly admitting you want it not for tunneling simultaneously, and then asking why the anti-tunnel perk is behind a paywall... the perk being behind a paywall has absolutely nothing to do with wanting to change how the perk functions.
If you want to argue DS should be moved out of a paid DLC fine, but that has nothing to do with our conversation about DS's balance.
Add that hooking someone else deactivates it as they aren't being tunneled then and I'm totally fine with this unlimited timer idea.
Defend what way of playing?, if you mean playing without DS I will defend it, because it opens up for more enjoyable builds for me to use.
Also what do you mean they are going to kill the perk? how is DS going to be killed exactly?
Theres also a ton of other perks that are from paid dlc, in fact some of the perks part of paid dlc are utterly terrible look at Lucky Break or Hex:Third Seal, so how does that justify DS having extremely powerful anti momentum when it is supposed to be anti tunnel?
If devs removed DS/BT for a week (which they won't, well know that) players would definetly abuse it since they would know those perks are coming back. Tunneling/camping would skyrocket the same way when nerfs to medkits & toolboxes were announced and everyone had to use their syringes and best toolboxes. That would only prove that if something is getting changed for limited duration, people will abuse it for that limited time. Not really a proof that DS and BT are the true saviours who hold camping/tunneling at bay.
Most of the common camping/tunneling is used when it's warranted (unsafe unhooks, all 3 other survivors hovering around the hooked person etc), nothing wrong with those. That's killer not beiing dumb and ignoring survivors horrible decisions for the sake of their fun. I think that people still look at tunneling the wrong way, they want to punish killers for doing it insted of implementing new ways to discourage it.
lol what killers?
dude you run OoO, there's only 2 killers in the game that stand a chance at deleting you in 2 minutes that's Nurse and Spirit. A Pig or a Wraith sure as hell aren't getting you out in 2 minutes. I can't remember the last time a wraith committed to a chase with me and it wasn't a full game chase.
doing gen bad
im confused on what this thread is trying to say
I edited the post it should make more sense now.
Edited it.
okay second attempt. i think the added benefit of anti momentum is fine when its ran by one person but when all 4 have it its just annoying and you lose so much pressure just by getting hit once with ds and you gain like 25m of distance making it hard to chase that same person while others who are probably resetting and/or doing gens and it majorily affects the outcome of your match and punishes the killer for not even doing anything scummy and just playing regulary.
i would agree the perk bandaids should go and make a weaker ds base kit
If DS would be removed the game would be unplayable and not just literally. Its quite hilarious that so many people intentionally ignore that a 5s stun isnt stopping tunneling at all but still complain about it. This just shows how killer biased this forum is, they just want a slaying simulator.
I mean its already been discussed to death, buff its anti-tunnelling aspect, nerf its aggressive, do objectives infront of killer, anti-momentum aspect. Scottjund's idea is an example but there are others. No one is saying that DS doesn't function as anti-tunnel but it also does more than that and you know that.
Then again, I see people on here actually justifying its use as an anti-momentum perk rather than an anti-tunneling perk as if you deserve to get anti-momentum for the killer doing his objective and getting hooks.