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Don't nerf Undying&Ruin combo. It is healthy.



  • batax90batax90 Member Posts: 879

    Sadly this combo will be nerf in 3 month only because most killer will use it and survivor complain will skyrocket

  • CaulDrohnCaulDrohn Member Posts: 845

    I agree with your slight nerf. Since you do not see normal totems, seeing an aura out of the blue gets me confused every now and then. I would even say, remove the aura from Undying and give it to Thrill instead, bc Thrill is the hex dedicated to totem protection. This wouldn't hurt Undying too much, since the hex swap mechanic is the main reason to run it. And it would give thrill a nice buff.

  • EorpwaldEorpwald Member Posts: 46

    Just an FYI both Unbreakable and Decisive Strike have changed multiple times. Unbreakable 2 times and Decisive 4 times.

  • ClickyClickyClickyClicky Member Posts: 3,536

    If you remove the aura reading then off the top of my head Undying becomes the only perk in the game that’s worthless by itself.

    Even Thrill has a secondary effect of more bloodpoints and wasting a little bit of time if survivors do destroy totems.

  • skarsgutsskarsguts Member Posts: 179

    The real kicker is killers defending their strong combos yet crying about survivor combos every day.

  • valvarez4valvarez4 Member Posts: 868

    Yes, because open handed is a very powerful perk alone

  • ClickyClickyClickyClicky Member Posts: 3,536

    I said off the top of my head, I never said there wasn’t any others. No need to get defensive.

    Even Open handed could technically do something since if any of the other 3 survivors have an aura reading perk it would help them but otherwise yes. So we have what now 2 perks that are potentially useless by themselves?

    Theres a reason there isnt many. I dont think it’s something they want to do.

  • aGoodOldRubaGoodOldRub Member Posts: 267

    I don't think it will be nerfed not sure why you are worried. If they were I think they would test it on PTB which is coming around now.

  • MadLordJackMadLordJack Member Posts: 8,815

    There is a difference between 20 feet and 3 miles. They are both "distance," but one is clearly greater than the other, no?

    It is the same with "disadvantage." Solo players will always be at a disadvantage, but there is a difference between what we were at pre-meta-shift and what we are currently at. Ruin/Undying hits solo players far harder than SWF teams. In fact, it hits solo's so hard they people like you are claiming that it is perfectly okay for solo players to be forced to change up their build and sacrifice an extremely valuable perk slot specifically to counter a new meta while SWF just take it in stride, especially since solo players cannot riff off of their teammates perks, for example you might get a team all running anti-totem perks and Inner Strength. Not the best way to survive a trial.

  • CaulDrohnCaulDrohn Member Posts: 845

    Ok, thats right. How about it would show you all dull totems with a white aura, so you would know where every totem is located. I just feel the current aura is too much and better fits to Thrill.

  • Xbob42Xbob42 Member Posts: 1,118

    Actually I like that one, since it makes dull totems important.

    Of course, it would still be useless on its own to some extent, maybe slap a 50% deviousness BP bonus just so it does something even if you have no synergy perks with it.

  • LittilAvindarLittilAvindar Member Posts: 238
    edited September 2020

    Only thing that needs to change about undying is the aura reveal. There is already another hex that does that. To add it to undying is to completely disregard the other one. Other than that, I don't mind receiving a ton of Light-bringer points for cleansing 5 lit totems. Not to mention, when we notice there are multiple lit totems, we move to cleanse them before messing with gens anyway. Then we get to listen to the killer complain that they still got gen-rushed, despite the totems taking several minutes to locate and cleanse. I've seriously had games that lasted 25+ minutes (thanks to undying/ruin) only for the killer to complain that they got gen-rushed anyway. I know the devs are talking about slowing gen progress for the first few minutes of a match, so all that's going to do is encourage survivors to avoid gens and focus on breaking all the totems for the first few minutes, then do the gens anyway. It guarantees points for totems, and guarantees that NOED can't happen.

  • ClickyClickyClickyClicky Member Posts: 3,536

    I feel like Thrill is fine with notifications.

    Think about it Thrill is the totem defence perk. It slows down the cleansing speed and gives you a notification saying “come here quick and defend the totem”.

    The aura reading can be easier to miss than the noise notification if you’re not looking in that direction.

    Undyings totem aura reading isn’t that crazy. Its not that much different to Thrill. Unless you mean the passive aura reading you get when a survivor runs past a totem in a jungle gym, maybe if you really wanted to nerf the perk you could change it to a killer instinct effect instead. Or just reduce the 6 seconds down to 4.

    I think people are overreacting with Undying. Nobody has complained about Undying and any other totem yet. The problem is specifically with Ruin and its “always active” effect. Nerfing Undying wont change that unless you put limits on how often Undying can respawn a totem which isn’t really fair.

    I can see both sides of the argument. Undying/Ruin sounds like a nasty combo solo......but then its nasty because survivors dont do totems. I have games where I cleanse 4 and still die to NOED because nobody else can be bothered to do a totem. If I play 2 man swf we both take out a dull totem early on, so undying could only ever respawn a totem once.

    Solo survivors could do with more information on totems I feel. If not a counter than just a noise notification which lets them know one has been taken out. At the same time they do need to put more effort in, you can only hold their hands so much before they need to stop being lazy and just take out any dull totems they come across. Its only 14 seconds. If every survivor played like this then NOED would be effectively dead as a perk but they just refuse to do them.

    I wonder if it would be crazy to buff Undying. So that you lose 5/4/3 tokens rather than all of them when a totem is cleansed. In return for reducing the aura and changing Ruin. On some of the outdoor maps considering theres only 5 totems and usually easy to find reducing them all can feel a little harsh since you’re taking 2 perks just for totems of which are there only 5 and only take 14 seconds to take out. Maybe with Devour not so much with lullaby or third seal.

  • batax90batax90 Member Posts: 879

    Killer combo rely on luck and is in the game for 3 week

    Survivor combo rely on survivor mistake and is in the game for 2 years

  • JustalittlepeeckJustalittlepeeck Member Posts: 1,101

    My personal position on any survivor vs killer stuff is always the same:

    if they are allowed, so should we and vica-versa.

  • C_FrankC_Frank Member Posts: 179

    if the excuse is that the combo ds Ub is also strong it only worsens the game by adding more broken things. undying gives a lot of information and also the chance to break 4 ruins. It is necessary to limit the reading of aura to the hex totem maybe lower the time. Maybe limit the amount of regeneration of totems or if they break undying all revived totems are broken.

  • C_FrankC_Frank Member Posts: 179

    I do not say all these changes together but at least one. now it is very strong. especially a killer with great mobility. I use this combo with the nurse and it's ridiculous. 3 seconds into the game I am already seeing the aura of one or two survivors. If you have the nearby totems you can zone a part of the map with 3 or 4 gen and it is an easy victory. Is the small pp build for killers .

  • ElenaElena Member Posts: 2,188

    In this day and age, having a powerful perk combination as a killer is illegal, so it must be nerfed.

  • ClickyClickyClickyClicky Member Posts: 3,536

    Its weird. Survivors ran Unbreakable/DS/Soul guard for months with no issues. It was fine, it was balanced they said.

    Now they get a combo of killer perks that allows them to use their OP combo more often and they don’t like it.

  • ad19970ad19970 Member Posts: 3,989

    It's hard enough for killers to defend gens, they can't also defend totems as well. That's not something anyone can expect from a killer.

    What you are describing here is not a balance issue in the slightest, it's a matchmaking and ranking issue, since you seem to get team mates that seem to be lower rank or should at least be lower rank.

  • ad19970ad19970 Member Posts: 3,989

    How can Ruin/Undying combo be ignored and countered and DS/UB not? As long as Ruin is active, gens regress automatically, and that's prety damn strong. I get that you can cleanse all the hex totems, but then again Ruin is actiive the entire time until the Ruin totem is destroyed for good, at which point survivors have already spent time looking for totems and not doing gens.

    Ds is only active for 60 seconds after being unhooked. During that time they can counter both getting picked up and being slugged, but still it's not much stronger then the Ruin/Undying combo.

  • SirBDogSirBDog Member Posts: 31

    I was thinking the same thing, why not make it so tier 1 the max that it can move is 1 time, then 2, then 3. This would also make it more viable in builds with another hex perk.

    Alternatively, you could cap the number of moves by, let's say 2 and make broken totems respawn, which is still contributing to the "undyingness" of the perk more than aura reading

  • C_FrankC_Frank Member Posts: 179

    if one side has perk or op combos it is not solved by handing over perk and op combos to the other side. Nerf perk and op combos for both sides. and by case the problem is ds and undying. ds allows survivors to take aggressive actions without punishment. undying not only revives totem are 5 radars on the map with 6 second auras.

  • jackal470jackal470 Member Posts: 122

    I myself don't like the idea of any indicator for totems, it feels like hand holding and survivor gets enough of that each match...I think like you said if you have over 2,000 posts ya know the perks. If a new player needs help then they need to learn the perks, totem spots and explore the map. If they do those things they will learn, no need to make it easier for a team to escape in five minute matches

  • BigBrainMegMainBigBrainMegMain Member Posts: 3,826

    I've gone against Undying+Ruin so many times and have been able to escape.

    Either we rush gens or just simply find all totems, it's a perfectly fine combo.

  • NursesBootieNursesBootie Member Posts: 2,159

    Change one of your second chances for "Small Game"/" Detectives Hunch" or use a map. Problem solved.

    Nerfing undying is not the way to create diversity, believe me. Buffing perks like dying light is better.

  • ClickyClickyClickyClicky Member Posts: 3,536


    I don’t know how many times this needs to be said.

    Undying is fine. Undying does not need any changes.

    Ruin is the problem survivors have. No other totems have an always active effect 24/7, only Ruin does.

    When you cleanse Devour/Lullaby/Third seal the tokens reset which gives survivors downtime in which they can comeback.

    Haunted grounds and retribution don’t have any effect until the totem is cleansed.

    There’s no other totem like Ruin. Ruin will likely be the one that gets changed. Probably token based to some degree.

    I dont want to hear about Huntress Lullaby. Sure that 6% always applies but nobody outside of rank 20s are gonna be missing constant skillchecks with 0 tokens of lullaby.

    People need to stop picking on Undying.

  • whammigobambamwhammigobambam Member Posts: 1,061

    Please add lightning bolts that have a 1% chance to strike and instakill any of the 5 players in the match.

  • lowiqlowiq Member Posts: 435
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