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A question for those hating on Deathslinger...

24

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  • azameazame Member Posts: 2,870
    edited October 2020

    I know he mains slinger and is top 10. That doesnt change anything on how he has an instant shoot and can zone by being there.

  • MusicNerd_TCMusicNerd_TC Member Posts: 3,099

    Basically this. But, I think his zoning and ads spam should be nerfed, that's it.

  • KebekKebek Member Posts: 3,676

    I know that as slinger main I'll always be at least a little bit biased towards him but my general stance is that not a single killer's power right now is badly designed to deserve huge changes, not even slinger. I agree with a few things that should change aboout him like M2 release spam & possibly also TR but other then those nothing is inherently breaking the game to warrant significant changes.

    Chase experience/skill still matters a lot vs slinger, I would know since I've seen soooo many horrible survivors who have literally 0 idea how to play against slinger. Even the basic things like "if you get hit by his power in open loop you should leave it insted of deciding  to waster your hit SB and stay there" among others more complex.

    Many killers have in-build zoning that can benefit them to gain distance, slinger just brings it one tier higher, it's annoying sure but not broken.

    Tbh it's a matter of preference. I love playing against killers like slinger and hate killers like trapper other people don't have a problem with. And every killer is beaten by doing gens, it doesn't have much to do with only slinger, especially since many people can't play him so you hava more time then average to do gens anyway.

  • lucid4444lucid4444 Member Posts: 682

    "You can't do anything"

    You can do LOTS. Looping a DS isn't possible at some loops but very easy on others. Dropping the pallet early stops him dead in his tracks

    "You didn't juke him, he just missed"

    Yes you can, when he misses.. that's called juking. It's the same thing in First Person Shooters - when someone bobs and weaves to dodge shots that are hitscan (literally 0 projectile travel time) that's juking.

    "If he starts faking his shots and I juke, he just gains distance and hits me"

    Then don't juke. You have to adapt to how the killer is playing. And like I mentioned earlier, you have to play differently to the other killers. Just like... nearly all the killers. No you can't loop him like a Wraith, but that's not the Wraith's strong suit. DS's strength is (close range) loop ending - and he's not even the best at that.

  • azameazame Member Posts: 2,870

    As soon as you said you could juke a hit scan, 0 travel time in your words. I stopped reading. That is litterly you didnt juke hr missed. I'm pretty sure at max range you can possibly ju see a slinger because I find myself leading if far away.

  • xenotimebongxenotimebong Member Posts: 2,803

    Maybe it’s because there’s very little skill input from the survivor side in a chase with Slinger? There’s some, like you’ll last a bit longer if you’re not totally predictable, but there’s ultimately little difference between a survivor that just runs away in a straight line using trees to block LoS and a survivor with thousands of hours who knows every map, has learned how to loop every tile, and has impeccable reactions and timing. None of that matters. Against a Huntress (with good ping) for example, you can use your experience and knowledge of how her kit works to predict and avoid shots, and if you mess up or she outplays you you’ll eat a hatchet. It feels like a back-and-forth and like both sides have input on how the chase goes. But with DS it’s basically down to how good the killer is and the input from the survivor side is meaningless.

    DS isn’t overpowered by any means, he has weaknesses and he’s beatable. But if you’re playing survivor for the chase then you don’t want to play games where you rush gens as fast as possible and have short, uninteractive chases.

    I mean, most killers hate it when survivors just run from pallet to pallet, dropping them instantly while their team rushes gens, right? It’s because it’s totally one-sided and DULL. What can you do about it? Well, in killer’s case you can stop chasing that survivor and go for someone more interesting. Survivors don’t have that option.

  • JustalittlepeeckJustalittlepeeck Member Posts: 1,101

    I like playing killers like Caleb, default chases are getting really boring for me in 4 years and killers like him bring something new. Of course it feels extremely difficult, as I have much less experience against them, but that's where the fun is.

  • lucid4444lucid4444 Member Posts: 682

    Juke

    /jo͞ok/

    verb

    1. 1.
    2. INFORMAL•NORTH AMERICAN
    3. (in sports) make a sham move to mislead an opponent.
    4. "Howard juked left, sending three defenders leaning as he went toward the center of the field"
    5. 2.
    6. SCOTTISH•NORTHERN ENGLISH
    7. turn or bend quickly, typically to avoid someone or something.
    8. "I jouked around the corner"


    Faking your movement to lead someone in the wrong direction is juking

  • azameazame Member Posts: 2,870
    edited October 2020

    In a sense the base of chase skills/experience matters verses slinger. You provided a good example of instead of wasting hit sb you make distance to a better tile. However that's the basics and you also still got hit.

    Killers with zoning such as demo slow down and have a better telegraph. He doesnt zone by existing and his zone is way easier to read at loops. It isnt just insta shoot it actually has more boundries rather than shoot over this and pull around cause loops are short. Slingers zoning is just gross. I struggle to find out how he got past ptb.

    Yes preference is the only thing at the end of the day. You may enjoy killers like slinger but u enjoy killers like billy. A killer who can punish you and aldo provides equal opportunity to outplay.

  • KebekKebek Member Posts: 3,676

    Well, other examples would include a lot of predicting which as it seems isn't generally accepted as valid counterplay vs sligner since he forces far more predicitons and more often then other killers do. Universally staying near him is bad idea so whenver I see someone who doesn't leave a unsafe tile for a safer one after slinger misses just makes my head hurt.

    Other killers have slowdowns because their powers are more lethal in a sence that their projectiles deal damage and/or have much faster reload/recovery for snowballing besides often having some kind of another alt power. Slinger needs much more time to confirm his hits and has no other alt power or normal MM speed which is why his power doesn't have other "average" slowdowns.

    Also I wanted to ask, were you playing DBD already during slinger's PTB ? Since there was liteally no one who complained about him (chase fun/fairness wise) during his PTB and a small period of time after his release. I though someone like you would offer a lot of feedback on killer like him during the PTB when any changes were most likely to happen.

  • azameazame Member Posts: 2,870

    His predicting aspect just makes game boring. It either I guess right or die. No real skill involved there. Making distance works and using that sb from hit is good. Then you gotta pre throw tour way to victory. The problem is in solo you need teammates to be actively doing gens because you are going through alot of pallets.

    Sure slinger has to take a bit more time to get hits but it really is not that long. He gets guarenteed hits at window in open and iij n most short wall loops.

    I was playing dbd during his release. During ptb I watched he didnt look too bad but playing my matches on live servers I already said he was a problem since day one. same with PH a problem since day one. That zoning and insta shoot. He can shoot over a lot of tiles.

  • edgarpoopedgarpoop Member Posts: 5,075

    My favorite is when survivors run past the high rock pallet to try and play an L wall/T wall against Slinger, go down immediately, and then d/c. Like, are ya'll giving any thought to what this killer does? Or they try to play shack and I shoot through one crack for the first hit, then another crack and pull them to the window for the down. So many players don't realize they need high walls, LOS blockers, and need to avoid windows like the plague.

  • notstarboardnotstarboard Member Posts: 3,696

    If someone is strafing beyond 8-10 meters that means they are giving up distance. just hold W for a bit and then M1 them.

    I also really don't care how hard his shot is to land. To a survivor, it doesn't matter if the Deathslinger is missing because of lag, or servers, or bad aim, or all of the above. To a survivor, the important thing is being able to make skillful plays to counter the killer. That's not really possible against a decent Deathslinger. You have to hope you're on a perfect tile when he shows up and that he somehow misses his shots. Killers that can zone create a lose/lose.

    He's a pretty average killer in terms of strength, so I'd be perfectly happy buffing him in other ways. Give him a more generous hitbox so you feel like you're fighting the game less, sure thing. So long as he can zone, though, he will be a massive pain in the ass to play against.

  • MeltingPenguinsMeltingPenguins Member Posts: 3,435

    Another absurd thing I observed:

    The majority of survivors that complain that you 'can not dodge his shots because instant' are the SAME that will stand in the open gate/hatch WAITING for Deathslinger, tbagging, flashlightclicking etc... and then wonder when they get pulled away and downed.

    It's like they don't make the connection between

    'if i can not dodge him in a chase I can't react fast enough to leave at the gate either'

  • hillbillyclaudmain69hillbillyclaudmain69 Member Posts: 1,528

    Am i the only one that loves going against nurse but hates slinger, even though he's weaker? Nurse has counterplay, but he doesn't.

  • hillbillyclaudmain69hillbillyclaudmain69 Member Posts: 1,528

    But you didnt dodge. He missed. His shot isn't reactable.

  • ad19970ad19970 Member Posts: 4,007

    That‘s not the case anymore with the strong Killers. They don‘t have to hope that the survivor Messes up anymore. The Problem People have with slinger isn‘t that they aren‘t in control of the chase, but that they don‘t have a fair amount of counterplay to have any effect on the chase, making the chases so uninteractive and unenjoyable.

  • KebekKebek Member Posts: 3,676

    Dunno, I love facing both due to their different chase mechanics and many predictions per chase. They are very similar in that manner.

    Tbh nurse has only as much counterplay as the person playing her allows it, just like slinger. They both are unbeatable if the person playing them plays 100% perfectly which is impossible thus they do have some reasonable amount of counterplay.

  • hillbillyclaudmain69hillbillyclaudmain69 Member Posts: 1,528

    For me, nurse isn't. I'm a nurse main, and I know what a good nurse will do. I can run nurses as easily as any other killer now.

  • KebekKebek Member Posts: 3,676

    I highly doubt that you can consistently outplay really good nurses on any tile in the game, especially the open ones. I do agree that you (since you know how nurse is played) can run general rank 1 nurses since most of them aren't that good.

    Still, I wonder (since you've claimed nurse has counterplay and slinger doesn't) how are you consistenly counterplaying good nurse other then her making mistakes/bad predecitons which applies to slinger as well ?

  • UNIACATS2000UNIACATS2000 Member Posts: 2

    I certainly agree with you, but can I also say that deathslinger is insanely hard to go against and increasingly frustrating. You do every single m18 juke but it's ever so hard to juke the shot, because it's "effortless" for the slinger to start aiming. Giving a survivor no time to react before. BAM, the surviver is hit, no time to rouge because there is no charge up time.

    Devs. If your reading please, please make a small 3 sec charge up time, but not just that give like a little hint that he's charging up.

    Just like for billy and for bubba.

    It's just not fun, and yeah I know it's part of the game, but sometimes somethings are just impossible.

    But this is not the same as perk builds those are people being smart finding builds.

    I know this is off the topic but I feel like I need to say something. Poeple are always complaining about perk builds. I say, ITS PART OF THE GAME! This is a type of game where you want to find these things to help YOU LIVE. And I know you want to make sure everyone has fun. But this is a survival game, where you work as a team to survive. So DS+UB, it's a good freaking build, it's stops tunneling, and yeah I know it's annoying in the end game but. That's the play, it helps you survive. UnD+Ruin fantastic build, it helps slow down gen rushing, which BTW I see complaining about," ohh I'm quitting dbd because every game I get gen rushed. :(". Calm down people, use these "toxic" builds and stop it.

    My point is, stop complaining, it's a game, people play the game, you can't control what people want to bring in a game.

    Next is SWF, holy crap, can a person play with their friends, I know it's annoying I been matched with a SWF group, hello guys I recall I got a 3k.

    My last point is just have fun. Playing the game, look past those frustrating minutes, and go again... Freaking tea bag if it brings you what little joy. Stop caring about what others are bringing in or what there feeling, just try (your) to have as much fun as (you) can.

    Okay I'm going to shut up now.

  • MeltingPenguinsMeltingPenguins Member Posts: 3,435

    All in all I think one issue is that while the maps are random-ish, they are not dynamic. I think a lot of people would hate Caleb less if the maps would adjust to which killer is played against, to encourage either side to use the abilities to full potential.

    similar with other killers.

  • MewMew Member Posts: 1,667
    edited October 2020

    the thing about slinger is that the survivors skill is moot if the slinger is good enough. Its physically impossible to dodge his speargun if he's close (which will happen eventually, since the killer is faster than survivors) so it leads to braindead gameplay of predropping every pallet, which isn't fun for either side.


    also, there are plenty of killers that change the survivors playstyle in chase but are fun to go against, like Huntress, Bubba, Billy, Demo, Blight, Pig, and Nurse.

  • GuySmileyGuySmiley Member Posts: 33

    I never have thoughts like this. I just play the game and have fun. I'm surprised to hear that people don't seem to like a diversity amongst the killers. I mainly play survivor and I enjoy the challenges of every killer.

  • hillbillyclaudmain69hillbillyclaudmain69 Member Posts: 1,528

    Nurse has the counterplay of watching and learning. Eventually if you're good, you won't be able to be hit because you know what theyre going to do. As one of the best console nurses(I can say this because most console nurses are trash, and being good at nurse makes you a top tier one on console 😆) the better the nurse is, the longer i can run them. Slingers shot is not possible to react to, meaning that you cant counter him.

  • hillbillyclaudmain69hillbillyclaudmain69 Member Posts: 1,528

    To answer your question better, I know exactly how nurse works, like most killers, including slinger. Slingers shot isn't reactable, meaning that he has no counterplay. Nurse, however, has queues to tell you what she's doing. She holds up her arm while charging a blink, and makes a sigh and clenches her fist when its charged. From there, she'll go 20 meters, but she can release it before this point. She can go from 1 to 32 meters with two blinks, and i know this. I see where she's facing, and how long she charged the blink, and have a very good idea what's going to happen, meaning that if a nurse is against me, an open field is a literal infinite. Once I learn how she blinks when you break line of sight, I will never get hit, unless she is VERY unpredictable, which is rare.


    Slinger has no counterplay, since it goes in a straight line, but isn't reactable. You have to constantly juke for a shot he might not make. He can zone you without any effort, and then youre dead in 2 seconds. Combine this with save and monitor, like most people, and theres nothing you can do to win.

  • CashelP14CashelP14 Member Posts: 5,278

    I like killers changing the traditional looping but only if it's only done correctly.

    Example is Plague. She changes traditional gameplay by giving having the fountains. The make your choice aspect is also really cool. The dodging corrupt part is what I love. Also Nurse I do find to be different in terms of looping but fun to vs.

    Deathslinger is different to these two.

  • KebekKebek Member Posts: 3,676

    Your logic is sound but there is 1 problem with it. You're basing this counterplay on the idea that nurse makes a mistake. Let me explain.

    Nurse's blink charge time as you probably knows allows her to make short blinks (around 8m) extremely fast to the point where you have less then 1s to react to them. Meaning that you are very likely to juke her first long blink which nurse uses to get to the genereal area around you, then the second short one for the perfect hit. This can't be avoided no matter what smart play you do (unless you have DH) since nurse can easily react to changes in your movement as long as you're in her LOS, so if you juke any nurse in the open or while she had time to blink to your general are with her fisrt blink and thus has LOS with her second one, it's her who's misusing her power, not you outplaying her (meaning you do have a lot of impact on difficulty of her blink but the outcome is still decided by her imput far more then yours as long as she had LOS on you at least for her fisrt blink).

    What is usually the case is that survivors manage to gain enough distance or have enough LOS blockers forcing nurse to predict their movement on the first blink making the second one very inaccurate or even also a prediction blink. These are the ones you can mindgame (assuming the nurse play always perfectly) unlike those where she has enough LOS which are 100% her mistake if she misses them.

    If her power was as much under the control of survivors as you make it seem she wouldn't be the most powerfull killer ind DBD since her release until now and probably forever. Main thing holding her back and creating the idea that she has counterplay (while in LOS) is the inability of players to user her to 100% of her potencial. This is the same with slinger who does the same thing, if you're in his LOS and slinger plays perfectly, you're as good as dead since he's in control of the outcome just like nurse is. Main difference beiing that slinger has much more limits and is far slower overall causing his power to be somewhat easier to use (and much much easier to fake) making surviors realise they can't juke god tier slinger just like it's impossible to juke god tier nurse while they have LOS.

    Luckily, it's pretty much impossible to play each of these two killer to their 100% potencial so chances of running into someone who is able to play them extrmely well and never miss blinks/shots 90% of the time is just as rare as SWF death squad. Meaning, balancing these killers around 1% and calling them out on lack of counterplay is just as fair as not removing SWF due to existence of tournament level death squeads that can't be countered + are extremely unfair. Both are extreme edge cases which we shouldn't balance the game around.

  • ALostPuppyALostPuppy Member Posts: 3,398

    Meh I'm kinda done with the Deathslinger chase talk. I run spine chill and iron will a lot now. His chase is BS and miserable so don't give him one, that's all you can do. This whole "juking his shot" nonsense is just not a thing. The only way you counter him is stealth let's just leave it at that.

  • ShrekTheThird69ShrekTheThird69 Member Posts: 327

    Actually that wouldn't be that bad, kind of like how the sniper works in tf2. Would be much better than a straight up ADS slowdown as a nerf.

    Although personally I think he is fine as he is.

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