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Mindgames and loops

unsafepalletunsafepallet Member Posts: 28
edited October 8 in General Discussions

Looping in this game is so annoying because of the things survivors can do to tilt chases in their favor. Survivor mindgames are incredibly strong because of how much of the killer's time it can end up wasting, meanwhile killer mindgames usually end up removing a second or two from a chase, unless the survivor messes up really bad. Why do killers have to make such meaningful decisions to end chases without getting stunned by every pallet in the game (all while survivors gen rush you in the background), while survivors just have to fake a window vault, stand at a corner, or intimidate a killer into respecting a pallet? It's insane how effective scaring the killer is, shouldn't it be the other way around? Playing killer would be so much more bearable if mindgames were more rewarding. Chases would be more fun if they weren't just looping until you get to the next pallet or vaulting until the window gets blocked. I'm just saying survivors should actually be in danger during a chase.

Also, just in case someone says I just want free hits or something, I'm not asking for every chase to be five seconds, I just want survivors' mistakes to be more punishable than a slightly earlier dropped pallet or one less loop.

Editing this because people aren't really understanding what I'm trying to say here: at stronger loops killer and survivor gameplay really isn't equal. Whenever a killer makes a mistake at these loops the survivor pretty much always gets at least one more loop, one more loop where survivors are basically untouchable, and their teammates are free to do anything in the background. Whenever a survivor makes a mistake, he gets one less loop. One less loop is a shorter chase yeah but usually the mindgame window comes after one or two loops, time where other survivors are free to do anything. What not being rewarded with a hit means is they have time to take you to another loop and basically restart the process. They have another window to mindgame, and more unavoidable loops before getting a pallet. Most people's solution to this is just to break chase and find another survivor, which with bad rng can either screw you over just as much, or waste your time all the same if you don't have any information perks. This is all assuming survivors are playing without perks, because with perks the punishment for any sort of mindgame can just be null. So basically survivors get everything from a chase and killers get nothing.

Post edited by unsafepallet on
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Comments

  • unsafepalletunsafepallet Member Posts: 28

    Not really, and that's the point of my post, survivors can get away with a lot of mistakes

  • unsafepalletunsafepallet Member Posts: 28

    It's really not a matter of whether I'm good or bad, I see killers way better than me suffer from literally unpunishable survivors too

  • BullettimegodBullettimegod Member Posts: 398

    Im a red rank killer and surv. I how ever do not see how youre wrong. I feel realitively safe when im being chased by killers since i know how to chain loops and run killer shack which gives my team time to do gens.


    The argument against that is "learn to give up chases"

  • MadLordJackMadLordJack Member Posts: 3,579
    edited October 8

    That's the game. Killer, even Freddy, is significantly harder than survivor. Think of it as a way of naturally creating that 4:1 ratio for the matchmaking.

    Edit: I should clarify, a lot of people like to say that Solo Survivor is the hardest thing in DBD, but personally I don't call bench-pressing a house "hard."

  • Tactless_NinjaTactless_Ninja Member Posts: 1,791

    There are perks that strengthen chase y'know. Bamboozle is almost always a game changer. So is brutal strength.

  • unsafepalletunsafepallet Member Posts: 28

    Some mindgames are better than others, and good ones aren't always an option. What I'm trying to say is there are some points where you can catch a survivor running into you but it still won't reward you as a mistake like that should.

  • unsafepalletunsafepallet Member Posts: 28

    I know but I'm just talking about game mechanics in general, like I haven't even mentioned strong perks like dead hard or spine chill that can extend chases even longer

  • unsafepalletunsafepallet Member Posts: 28

    Yeah but there's other games with worse ratios like 8:1 (Friday the 13th) that can still balance the game much further than dbd. Naturally killer will be harder than survivor but killers get almost nothing to work with, compared to survivors.

  • MadLordJackMadLordJack Member Posts: 3,579

    No assymetrical game has ever been as balanced as DbD. Not to mention the fact that F13 died due to boredom of playerbase.

    I less you are meaning ease of gameplay and the overall gameplay disparity, in which case... That's not DbD.

  • unsafepalletunsafepallet Member Posts: 28

    Even if this game is the most balanced of every asymetrical game, the balancing really isn't good, and they should be striving to do better either way. F13 didn't die to boredom, the game is an extremely buggy mess, which I'm pretty sure the devs can't do anything about due to legal issues. And I don't really know what you mean by ease of gameplay not being dbd. I'm not saying playing killer should be a walk in the park, I'm saying playing survivor shouldn't be a walk in the park.

  • SonzaishinaiSonzaishinai Member Posts: 2,482

    The only scenario i can think of that you don't get a hit or fast pallet after a mindgame is deadhard or stored sprint burst. most of the time it can be countered by waiting a second.

  • unsafepalletunsafepallet Member Posts: 28

    I do know how to mindgame, my problem is how little you will get out of mindgames. Cutting off 2-3 seconds from a chase can mean almost nothing in the long run if I'm not even getting a hit out of it. And you can't always mindgame a survivor when they have the option to stand at a corner or just run away.

  • unsafepalletunsafepallet Member Posts: 28

    There's vaulting mindgames, hiding the red light, unexpected angles, etc. But usually unless the survivor makes a really bad mistake all these do is take a few seconds off the chase.

  • SonzaishinaiSonzaishinai Member Posts: 2,482

    Again no, unless they call the mind game it ends the chase. I don't see where this "few seconds" comes from.

    the only mindgame i can think of that does that is the look one way and move another in short safe loops to cut the number of loops down, almost every other mind game ends the chase then and there.

    If you follow an experienced survivor in a straight line chases take up to minutes. one succesfull mind game ends it for the survivor without the aid of perks.

    mindgames take minutes of a chase not seconds. I'm sorry but i don't think you know what a mindgame is. the video's above should help a lot.

    And I'll add one to it

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TPExWQ5_UjY

  • unsafepalletunsafepallet Member Posts: 28

    I literally just listed three mindgames that do the same thing you just described, a.k.a taking away one more loop from a chase. What I am trying to say is that I think these things should do just a little more than get you a slightly earlier pallet, you should actually be able to get a hit off a survivor that just made the same mistake 3 times, which usually happens at places like the killer shack or other strong loops that are usually on farm maps. I hate how having to break chase is a thing when loops are too strong and people just call it a survivor being too good for you. Chases should be more dynamic, survivors should make more decisions than waiting at a corner or literally running towards the killer and getting one less loop as punishment. "Good survivors" don't have to be afraid of anything at strong loops.

  • MigrantTheGreatMigrantTheGreat Member Posts: 868

    This is one of the reason's why I'm a Spirit main!

    1. Spirit can actually do something no matter the situation she's in
    2. Spirit deals with looping differently
    3. Spirit flips the script on survivor's which is why "She is a product of what's wrong with looping"
    4. Spirit doesn't have to rely on survivor's making a mistake or out positioning them

    When I play killer's that aren't Nurse or Spirit, mindgaming and dealing with looping in the same manner gets old and boring! When I'm playing survivor and I'm looping, I'm feeding off of direct counterplay information and using common sense and to me that's just not rewarding because I feel like I'm not using any skill to outplay my opponent!

  • OrangeJackOrangeJack Member Posts: 410
    edited October 8

    I don't think that's true. Alot of times mindgame can just result in a very early pallet drop instead of a hit and I'm fairly sure that's mentioned in that video you linked aswell.

  • TheClownIsKingTheClownIsKing Member Posts: 2,129

    Nobody here is addressing the fact that there are survivors playing this game with so much experience, they already know what potential mind games to expect from a killer, thus know what tells to look out for.

    It also doesn’t help that killers are very limited in their ways to attempt a mind game, meaning that while a pallet is still up, or a vault isn’t blocked, these kind of survivors always have the upper hand.

    There are just too few ways a killer can be unpredictable at loops. Which makes it too easy for these survivors to predict what a killer is attempting.

  • Kbot22Kbot22 Member Posts: 94

    Friday the 13th is not balanced. If the counselors get lucky, they can get a car going and be out in less than 2 minutes. All a counselor has to do is run around a table with Vanessa and the rest of them can escape. And don't say I don't know what I'm talking about because I've played lots of Friday (over 100 hours easily) counselor is extremely easy and the only thing the killer can do is use their phase-shift and get a really good teleport.

  • TheClownIsKingTheClownIsKing Member Posts: 2,129

    This is exactly why I’ve stuck to Clown for so long.

    I don’t necessarily need to worry about loops being mind-gamed. I gas the paths around the loop that are the optimal way for the survivor to run. If the survivor doesn’t leave the tile, they’re taking a hit. If they make a run for the next tile, they’re taking a hit.

  • GoodLookinCookinGoodLookinCookin Member Posts: 336

    Looping is repetitive and stupid, wish they had something to replace it

  • unsafepalletunsafepallet Member Posts: 28

    I don't know if we're allowed to talk about other games for too long here, but in my experiences counselors really aren't that op in that game, unless they get really good rng. Also you can throw knives so nobody can run around a table for that long.

  • ALostPuppyALostPuppy Member Posts: 2,092

    Killers get almost nothing to work with? What? every killer has a way of cutting time off chases. A few of them aren't that great (Myers, GhostFace and Wraith) but the majority of killers now can shut down loops before they even start. If you really don't like chasing survivors might I suggest playing Hag or Spirit more.

  • unsafepalletunsafepallet Member Posts: 28

    Killer powers can't always be used and looping will always happen eventually. Strong loops are pretty insufferable against most killers, what I'm saying is that mindgames that should help in these situations will do pretty much nothing.

  • TheClownIsKingTheClownIsKing Member Posts: 2,129

    Some killers aren’t even meant to engage in extended looping. I see Wraiths make the mistake of committing to a chase after missing a surprise hit on a healthy survivor. That’s simply going to waste way too much of Wraiths time with his kit

    Drop it. Try and catch somebody else off guard.

  • SonzaishinaiSonzaishinai Member Posts: 2,482

    The taking away a few loops from a chase is only at those junk tiles which take like 5-10 seconds to drop.

    There already are very little loops left where you are forced to leave. Sorry but in my experience pulling of a mindgame results almost always in a hit. The only time it doesn't is when perks get involved.

    And even if it just results in a early pallet drop, that isn't a bad thing. Take away their recource and go back to pressure gens.

    Do you want every single loop in the game to be unsafe?

  • kaerukaeru Member Posts: 721

    >>survivors get everything from a chase and killers get nothing.

    Actually survivors win not because they loop. They escape when they repair gens. So don't be surprised if you spend whole match chasing someone instead of controling gens.

    Pallets. Survivor can't make you respect pallet if you not affraid of being stunned. Swing through the pallet when you can. You better get short stun and get rid of pallet for good. If you respect pallets survivor make you waste more time than if you just eat the pallet.

    Mindgames. Your mindgames is very important. Hide your red stain by moonwalking. Fake your possible direction when survivor can see you and change it back when he hide behind wall. Make survivor think you respect pallets and swing on second loop. Change direction when survivor can't see you. Fake breaking a pallet to make survivor run away from loop. Every successful mindgame is a hit. Injuring or downing is all good.

    Pressure. Yes, you are killer and you need to kill survivors to win. But you also need to keep in mind what to do for not lose. When you chasing someone and you hear gen repaired, don't ignore it. Drop chase, scare survivors from gen, give them hit, keep them busy with evrything but gens. Switch target if you see someone not injured in your sight. Two injured survivors is always better than one downed. Don't focus on one survivor.

    Generators. Gens are important but don't waste your time kicking gen if someone is nearby (except if you have PGTW). You need 3 seconds to break one gen. Regressing is so slow it barely worth it. Survivors can waste your effort by slightly touching gen. There is potentially 4 survivors and you can't prevent all 4 survivors from touching it. When you kick gen you give survivor time to gain distance. If gen has less than 10% of progress, you don't even need to worry about it. If it has 90% you can consider this gen is lost. You can't prevent it without PGTW no matter how hard you try. They just switch to another gen if you decide to camp that one. You can kick gen if it's more than 50% of progress and you know with whispers that no one is nearby. That would probably give you some valuable seconds.

    Slugging. Don't pick up survivor if you see someone nearby. Downed survivor remain downed for 20 seconds, use this time to hit this unlucky guy. If it takes more time, drop this chase and get back to slugged survivor. You just made 2 survivors not busy with gens and maybe also waste time of someone else who was distracted trying to help to downed survivor. It doesn't mean you have to slug everytime. It is kind of scummy. Slug only when you see easy target nearby.


    TLDR: Sorry, I accidently got carried away and made this ultimate killer guide.

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