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Unpopular opinion: legion was only a problem because of how deep wounds worked

since legion has to wait for his power to recharge and on missed attackes he loses it old franks mix tape wouldn’t be as much of a problem I still stand by this I think the devs should look into buffing legion since borrowed time is fixed


  • GHOSTfaceP3GHOSTfaceP3 Member Posts: 1,216

    When I say fixed I mean he can no longer use perks/moonwalk or stealth to cheese the power

  • PulsarPulsar Member Posts: 5,833


    Legion has a very easily definable win condition. If the Survivors heal, you almost ALWAYS win. With most Killer's, it is usually in your benefit to heal, unless you are extremely confident in your looping abilities (which is not the caliber I am talking about, hence why I said decent.)

    Legion is a basic M1 Killer without ANYTHING to help him without his power. Against Survivors who loop at an okay level and who do gens at a reasonable rate, he is totally crippled.

    However, he stomps at lower ranks, just like Doctor.

  • PulsarPulsar Member Posts: 5,833

    I do not share that opinion.

    If you juggle correctly, Survivors WILL heal. It is possible to psychologically influence them to heal. I try to exploit this when I play Legion.

    Monitor, Sloppy, PGTW and Corrupt.

    Monitor and Abuse is the key to my build. It allows me to get closer than Survivors would like, allowing me to "sneak up" on them, which makes them want to heal.

  • VolfawottVolfawott Member Posts: 3,795

    Not exactly certain Killers will really punish you for not healing.

    Oni being a key example not healing against him give him way easier access to his snowball potential. However if everybody keeps themselves healed only has to work for his power.

    Spirit also hit this category ( Yamaokas really punish you for not healing) being injured makes it easier for her to track and pinpoint your location whilst you're unable to see hers.

    I know it's somewhat lessened if you have iron will however if you're going to make that argument you could also talk about the spirit having stridor then we'll be here all day.

    Stealth Killers ( sadly with the exception of Amanda) also gain massive advantages if you decide not to heal as they excel at getting the first hit so can usually sneak up on injured survivors and in that case the first hit is a down.

    I mention Amanda as being exempt simply because her crouching makes her move slower than nurse so it's not efficient to stay in crouched for too long whilst the other stealth Killers can keep there stealth properties constant without any severe map pressure penalties

    Legion and Plague order to Killers who not healing against is of the utmost importance. Whilst focusing on gens and not healing can benefit you against other Killers ( with the exceptions of the ones I mentioned above) it really hits these two Killers harder than most.

    When people say not healing is Plague and Legions biggest weakness it's not because the not healed meta is strong but it's because they benefit greatly when people end up healing. But I pretty much forced into being M1 Killers when people don't heal

  • xCarriexCarrie Member Posts: 981

    I miss old legion...they’re my guilty pleasure. 😔 I blame it on the killers who would play legion scummy and the faulty design on behavior’s part. Something about the fast paced and stabby stabs that’s I liked.

    I just wish bhvr would ditch dw on legion and give them a separate mechanic. When you change deep wounds you’re affecting a perk and a killers power. They need to focus on something that effects the bleed out timer or anything related to the survivor bleeding out and slowly dying.

  • Bradyguy99Bradyguy99 Member Posts: 186

    What if you lose a good chunk of charge instead losing it all? Like they miss there goes 3-8 seconds worth of it. Depends on addons and stuff.

  • ALostPuppyALostPuppy Member Posts: 3,093

    I'm saying remove deep wounds, I didn't mention borrowed time anywhere in my post. Perks that give endurance and killer abilities that give deep wounds stay as is but without deep wounds.

  • FablPlayzFablPlayz Member Posts: 120

    borrowed time is connected to deep wounds, And I don´t think it´s stupid. when you get saved and the Killer doesn´t hit you it´s great, but when he hits you mending is a small price to pay instead of going down. so i don´t understand what your problem with deep wounds is

  • GoodBoyKaruGoodBoyKaru Member Posts: 8,942

    Borrowed time never used to be. It used to give this cool bleedout timer, where the screen would turn completely black and white and if you didn't have a teammate or self cere or inner strength or something to heal yourself you'd go down. It also didn't go down in a chase.

    It was sick. I loved it.

  • ALostPuppyALostPuppy Member Posts: 3,093

    It's yet another thing survivors have to hold M1 for and it's not necessary at all. And if it's connected to by just... disconnect it? MoM gives the endurance effect like bt but doesn't also give deep wounds, it wouldn't be hard for them to also apply that to bt and other perks.

  • FablPlayzFablPlayz Member Posts: 120

    borrowed time is already a powerful perk and when the killer hits you after you get unhooked would you rather mend for 12 secounds or go back on the hook.

    And when you´re the killer, wouldn´t you feel cheated if you hit a survivor and he just runs away without having to mend?

    Just sit there and mend for 12s and everything will be fine. Of course it´s time that you "waste" but Killers often don´t have an easy time killing survs and this helps them create a tiny bit of preasure

  • SonzaishinaiSonzaishinai Member Posts: 3,567

    Honestly i just want speed addons back. Miss being speedy Legion

    Something like 5% extra ms in frenzy for every deepwounded survivor sounds like so much fun

  • HectorBrandoHectorBrando Member Posts: 1,481

    He also was a a guaranteed down, for every aditional hit after the first one would reduce Deep Wounds timer, sure the second hit would end your Feral Frenzy but you could keep chasing and wait for it to recharge a bit, pop it and finish wathever timer they had left.

  • JustalittlepeeckJustalittlepeeck Member Posts: 1,101

    Legion now isn't much better honestly. He is still boring, but now just boring. His power is so rarely used compared to any other killer and that is just awful. It also has little rewards for performing well with it and just feels counterintuitive

  • AhoyWolfAhoyWolf Member Posts: 2,791

    I never played as the og Legion, only against them, I wish I could tho...

  • TalmeerTalmeer Member Posts: 1,474
    edited October 2020

    Always that talking about the first hit...

    From where coming those survivors? Rank20?

    Every survivor above should know that this is not really a advantage.

    To the topic: My experience with the Legion to pre-rework times had show to me, that the abilities of the Legion were not a problem at all...

    ...But they were too easy to push. The Legion back in the day had a strong pattern of things you could do with it and you couldn't and I think that many old Legion addons where builded to erease the weakness of Legion's abilities out.

    With devastating consequences for the playerbase behind the Legion in the first place, how we all know today. To shorten this part of the story.

    What dw itself matters... It was never a strong abilitie. To have it, or to have it not, matters not really with the rest of the Legion in mind. I would at any time sacrifice it for a faster Legion or a less "stuny" Legion.

    Post edited by Talmeer on
  • TatariuTatariu Member Posts: 980

    The initial release of Legion was bad, unless you used add-ons... but the add-ons made them busted. You could also cheese chase mechanics to drop a timer passively.

    They reworked The Legion, but they lost most of what made them a unique killer, and a whole boat load of unnecessary changes, some of which, were reverted last winter (movement/vaulting speed).

    The Legion's power is so easy to use, that it cannot be lethal, so long as you can vault during Feral Frenzy. It's just not possible. I've thought of quite possibly everything, and the only solution to make Feral Frenzy lethal involves removing pallet and window vaulting (which is what makes them so fun and unique).

    You could, however, make Deep Wound more oppressive, but that isn't a permanent solution.

    Here is what the developers could do to add more lethality to Deep Wound, without it directly downing Survivors.

    • Feral Frenzy attacks now apply a 20 second Deep Wound timer (down from 30 seconds).
    • Feral Frenzy attacks made upon already injured Survivors applies a 10 second Deep Wound timer.
    • Rework: Frank's Mix Tape & Stab Wounds Study.
  • XeticusXeticus Member Posts: 57

    Doctor is a lot stronger than Legion. Those are the two killers I play the most and I play them in red ranks. Doctor is not a weak killer at all. Legion is much harder to play. It comes down to the fact for much of the game they are just an M1 killer. Their power doesn't help them down anyone at all. They can injure them and keep them injured but they have to m1 them to down them. Doctor's power is more versatile and his addons are stronger.

  • 28_stabs28_stabs Member Posts: 1,474

    I have an idea. This is how I would change Legions power:

    1) no more mending, but survivors cant reset their dying state timer with unhooks.

    2) FF damage the dying state timer. :^)

    3) If survivors allow to stab them in FF too many times- they just die next time they are injured.

    4) Dying state is 240s long, so.. every stab can shave off 20s. It mean 12 stabs would kill survivors. Also, the timer can be decreased by slugging, because it put survivors in dying state.

    Math: It take 20s to recharge FF. During FF Legion can land 2 hits.. so 12:2x20= it would take at least 120s + chase time to kill a survivor. It is longer than camping a hook, because tunneled in FF survivor would get 12 speed boosts and legion would take six 4s stuns from FF. :D Legion would need to use Knock Out to speed dying timer up, but it would add something new.

  • PulsarPulsar Member Posts: 5,833

    Of course. Doc is much stronger than Legion at high ranks thanks to his rework. I was merely remarking that they both absolutely decimate newer players/lower ranks because of their gameplay mechanics, but against experienced players, those things don't matter.

  • SunderMunSunderMun Member Posts: 2,390
    edited October 2020

    Petition to change pointless detection range add-ons into speed add-ons when?

  • KasumiFoxKasumiFox Member Posts: 117

    As a Legion player and the target of much hate mail for that particular reason, I say Legion is good how he is. The problem is that everyone wants to hate in Legion because it's the thing to do.

  • Squirrel_ThiccSquirrel_Thicc Member Posts: 1,622

    The issue is that he's incredibly boring to play against. Every match against legion is mending simulator.

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