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Ruin Undying Change

Withered8Withered8 Member Posts: 1,026
edited October 2020 in Feedback and Suggestions

Ok i've made a thread before about how i really disliked the ruin undying tinkerer meta and i've come to the conclusion that it's not as bad as i may have claimed it was before, but I still think it needs a change for two reasons.

1: There's no need for the killer to activate it or work for it or change their playstyle for the perk or anything, yet it's still very strong. If we look at a few other strong killer perks you can see that they have conditions, drawbacks and require the killer to do somethign for it to work. Pop/BBQ/Dying light: You need to hook people. Surge/Infectious: You need to down people. And for those which don't they often have big drawbacks such as the ability for survivors to wait out corrupt and work on other gens. Ruin undying does all the work on its own and the killer basically doesn't even need to register that they have the perks on as it does all the work for them, much why the old ruin was changed.

2: Inconsistensy compared to other hex's + undying. Pretty much all other totem perks have a penalty if they are popped with undying still up, such that you loose all your stacks which applies to most hex's. Ruin however doesn't get any penalties or anything when it is popped whilst undying is still up and the game goes on as if it was never taken out.

Thus I've come up with one potential solution to the perk. If ruin is cleansed whilst undying is still up, ruin is deactivated for a minute or so. Whever it could be cleansed or not during this period I woudln't know but let me know your thoughts on this and any ideas for a change that you might have. I don't nescaserily want it too much weaker but rather more managable for survivors, especially solo q.

Post edited by Rizzo90 on
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Comments

  • ChantyBoiChantyBoi Member Posts: 87

    Bring detectives hunch. For the price of one perk slot you can completely nullify two of the killers perk slots making the perk ratio of killers to survivor 15:2 if you can't be bothered to actually try to counter it, don't complain about it.

  • StarLostStarLost Member Posts: 453

    No. There are ways to counter it. The killer is subject to a fair amount of luck, even if only 1 surv is casually cleansing.

    Frankly, right now - there is a lot of stuff on the survivor side of things that need to be brought back in-line before the devs even glance at killer perks. Highly abusable stuff like OoO, Spinechill, DS etc. that has literally no counterplay that won't get you cussed out in post-game.

  • Withered8Withered8 Member Posts: 1,026

    So your solution is force everyone off of the origional survivor meta perks and make them all use detectives and small game. Sounds like a pretty unqiue and totally original build to me.

    Also you know how much time you have to waste to cleanse five totems? The time it takes for survivors to get almost two gens done. And that's assuming u find all the totems straight away, the killer doesn't interupt you and ur in a co-ordinated swf.

  • Withered8Withered8 Member Posts: 1,026

    Because it's not like there are plenty of other strong kliler perk combos out there right? I'm literally a killer main and i've been through with people so many times how ds unbreakable is avoidable 99% of the time.

    Even if DS unbreakable is "game breaking" etc, that's it. There's nothing else like it for survivors. Killers have a much larger variety to choose from.

  • StarLostStarLost Member Posts: 453

    It's because survivors have become complacent. Especially with killer matchmaking removed, combined with the old protections against smurfcomps being removed - both in complete silence.

    Survivors consider a game a loss unless all 4 escape.

    I was rank 14 by the way. This is a full premade. Their perks could have been way more cancerous, but I still got stomped into the dirt, and teabagged for my trouble. I basically had to camp #3 to get a kill. And then I get yelled at in postgame for camping.


  • D3spairD3spair Member Posts: 70

    Bruh, have you seen forums? One of the biggest and oldest complaint here is that generally Generators pops too fast.

    By having Ruin and Undying in a trial, Survivors are now forced to have a secondary objective (that was ignored most of the time.) that will slow gen progression.

    It's not like doing 5 totems are bad. You remove NOED coming into play, counter all Hex perks and given points because of it.

  • StarLostStarLost Member Posts: 453

    DS, in and of itself, isn't gamebreaking. It's how it interacts with stuff like lockers and other perks.

    Spinechill and OoO are far more oppressive in SWF groups anyway.

    Also - the second I see 'as a killer main' I picture Elmer Fudd in a bunny costume.

  • RivynRivyn Member Posts: 2,284

    This. I run Detectives just because I enjoy it most of the time, but since this combo has come about, it feels fantastic knowing I can deny said combo.

  • Withered8Withered8 Member Posts: 1,026

    Ummm spine chill abusable? That's a new one.

    OoO has been falling out of the meta for a long time, when was the last time you came across a full OoO swf?

    I don't have a problem with 99% of other killer perks but this build makes almost every other killer build look like trash. You know there's a problem when one build is 1000 times stronger than any other.

  • Withered8Withered8 Member Posts: 1,026

    It slows gen progression so much that solo survivors have no chance against a good killer.

    Killers were winning games perfectly fine before.

    The most annoying part i find about it is that when a killer beats you you can't tell these days whether it was because they were generally good or because they had ruin undying.

  • HEX_MalusGreyHEX_MalusGrey Member Posts: 231

    1 killer has to bring 2 perks so he has a chance for Ruin to stay up. Survivors have 16 perk slot's. Is it realy asked too much to run anti totem builds if it botheres you so much? Where is THAT conclusion?!

  • D3spairD3spair Member Posts: 70

    You're also thinking like you're in 1v1 game. Even if you are on solo q, it's not like you don't have teammates.

    While you're Cleansing totems, at least one guy is doing generator, if someone's being chased then do Generator or Bones. Dont think you're along in the map with the Killer.

  • MadLordJackMadLordJack Member Posts: 4,110

    Don't whattabout, please. This isn't a DS thread, it isn't a UB thread.

    The complaint is a fair one - the reason everyone started running Ruin/Undying/Tinkerer is not for variety or personal preference. Killer plays normally and gets a lot of regression unless 4 survivors do something that normally only 3-4 person SWF's can do without losing by default. It is extremely strong.

  • Withered8Withered8 Member Posts: 1,026

    The only problem i see with spinechill is that sometimes it can make games boring as killer because people just hide all the time and you spend most of the game looking for people, which is a boring playstyle. And as for OoO, it's far less useful for swfs now because people have learned how to communicate etc, so as long as one swf member knows where the killer is at all times, there's no use for OoO.

    Ok look maybe ds unbreakable combo's do need a change, but the arguments people use for it are extremely dumb. Yes they can jump in lockers and stuff but why are you going for a recently unhooked person anyways unless you rlly need to tunnel someone out of the game, in which case taking a potential ds is the price to pay.

  • RaSavage42RaSavage42 Member Posts: 1,904

    Buy "full OoO SWF" do you mean that all survivors run OoO or just one

    Cause if it's One survivor then I faced one earlier on today

    If it's not then... No never have

  • StarLostStarLost Member Posts: 453

    Somewhat often, actually. I'll see if I can grab you some postgame screens when I play tomorrow. About every 3rd match is 3-4 people playing together, one with OoO. Always Claudettes, for some reason.

    Spinechill negates stealth and 'looky' killers amazingly hard with almost no way to counterplay, unless you want to try scouting gens while running backwards.

    And yes - this is a strong build. If it's pushing other killer builds to the way-side, perhaps it's those other builds that need a look?

  • Withered8Withered8 Member Posts: 1,026

    By the time you've denied it the killer should have already begun to snowball unless they are seriously struggling with downs.

  • Withered8Withered8 Member Posts: 1,026

    If the killer has half a brain they will be able to down people and rotate faster than your teammates can individually do gens.

  • StarLostStarLost Member Posts: 453

    Because that recently unhooked person has a tricked out toolbox or a key?

    Because they are bodyblocking me constantly?

    Because they ran directly into me, or I caught them healing?

    There is a reason that DS is the subject of so many complaints. It's so damn abusable that even if a survivor doesn't have it, you have to play as if they did.

  • NursesBootieNursesBootie Member Posts: 2,159

    For solos it's pretty oppressive, especially if you're not a veteran.

    SWF is the balancing flaw again right here i guess.

  • Withered8Withered8 Member Posts: 1,026

    Quite a few killers actually don't even really need to worry about ds because they can just down them in 5 seconds afterwards,

    I don't want to go further into the ds discussion cause it gets nowhere. If you want to make another threat about it.

  • Withered8Withered8 Member Posts: 1,026

    I can somewhat agree with that.

    I just think that there's better ways of dealign with gen speeds than adding one build which completely counteracts survivors doing gens at a fast rate.

  • StarLostStarLost Member Posts: 453

    Shrug. It's entirely relevant to the discussion at hand. You don't get to nerfherd without people pointing out that there is a reason for killers to need some strong perk combos at present.

    Double standards aren't good.

  • NursesBootieNursesBootie Member Posts: 2,159

    Definitly. I personally don't use the build, just because it limits me in my creativity. I'm a person that uses "Fire Up!" regularily tho.

  • Aztreonam78Aztreonam78 Member Posts: 914

    Cleansing Totems cannot be considered Survivors' secondary objective at least because Survivors don't know how many Totems are remaining in the trial.

  • MommyDeRoseMommyDeRose Member Posts: 74

    Ah yes, another thread of some meatball whining about a killer perk being decent for once. Yeah let’s nerf this now that we’ve needed pop. Gotta make sure those gens can’t be slowed down to a somewhat manageable speed. Like it’s so shocking how dumb ppl are. You do realize by constantly whining about any kind of benefit killers have, all it does is cause a nerf and make ppl quit killer. So you get less games, longer queue times... like I don’t like waiting 5-10 minutes for a game just because ppl like you cry about a perfectly fine perk combo and also one of the only viable ones because ur too garbage to go and cleanse totems. I play both survivor and killer equally, we as survivors have a stupid amount of broken or very strong perks. killers don’t have any broken ones and maybe 5 strong ones. It’s dumb that every time a perk becomes strong, we have to whine about it because it’s not a free win every time now

  • Withered8Withered8 Member Posts: 1,026

    There's plenty of other strong killer combos out there. Are you sayign that killers had nothign before the most recent chapter?

    Another question, why has ds unbreakable only been kicked up as such a fuss since the past few months yet its been out for almost two years.

  • Withered8Withered8 Member Posts: 1,026

    Go on list me any "broken" survivor perks apart from ds.

    Killers have quite a few strong perks actually clearly you just don't experiment with a wide range of builds, i can tell you run ruin undying tinkerer on most if not all of your killers.

    Look nerfing this combo has nothign to do with "making sure genrushing still exists", it's the fact that it's extremely consistent and out of line compared to other strong regression perks and combos.

    And if gen speeds are broken then tell my why myself and many other killer mains are able to consistently 4k?

    Oh and about your statement of its not a free win every time, kinda hypocritical to say considering that's literally what undying ruin does.

  • GaalaGaala Member Posts: 21

    Well, your solution is basically force the killer to run some other perk instead of this.

    As now, there are at least 3 good combo on killer. CI + PGTW, Ruin + Undying and Enduring + Spirit Fury. The last one less used cause Enduring was nerfed a little and now only work on pallets.

    I don't want to talk about survivor, we already know the combo the red rank are using, but it's basically the same. Killer can't force survivor to change their perk only cause killer don't like it. And survivor can't force killer to change their perk too for the same reason.

    Cleansing all 5 totem is 12*5 = 60 seconds. It's a little less than a generator, so i don't know where did you take the 2 generator time. To circle around and trying to find it? Survivor aren't alone. You need to hope your teammate do the totem too. If not, you can bring a map or changing one of your perk.

    DS and UB doesn't need an activation (exept a skillcheck) and don't need survivor to change their playstyle, so your argoment is invalid. You can't nerf a side cause doesn't require an activation and ignore the other side that are the same.

    The other totem have penality cause they have stack, and Undying doesn't transfer stack. I think is fair, cause, with DH or HL the game will be... tragic. But this are strong hex. The counter to Ruin, when is still up, it's cleansing the totem OR repair a gen, that is your main objective. Killer can't be anywhere anytime, so you have plenty of time to pop some gen even with Ruin + Undying up.

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