Not easy/hard to win, only fun or not.
Do you enjoy playing against SWF groups or you find playing against premades a miserable experience?
Would you like to know if you are or were facing one?
I do enjoy it personally. Yes, skilled SWF groups hold a tremendous advantage over the Killer, but for the most part they´re beatable. The only thing I can´t enjoy and is almost impossible to overcome is when they use Object, that´s just way overkill in terms of unfairness.
Idk I can't tell who's premade most of the time so I just play it out xD.
depends on the swf, the more casual groups i dont mind, its the really try hard meta swf that ruin any form of fun. while i dont often de-pip from these sort of people its never a nice feeling to feel like no matter what you do you couldnt of done better. im sure many of us understand the game isnt built for high level play and when you do get a full team that actually know how to play and use strong perks, items, offerings etc. it feels pretty bad. then again if maps like ormand, haddonfield, bloodlodge was better done it might not be as much of an issue, i accept i ont win every game especially as i play all killers but i hate the usual toxic behavior that follows the top % swf. i just wanna play for fun and feel rewarded for my skill simple as that tbh
I would prefer to know going in, yes. Team play, i.e. Survivors using the 5th Perk (Comms), are not automatically good. What they have is a competitive edge over Solos and to some degree over the Killer. They have more information available to them than a combination of every single info Perk in the game. Just because they have the information doesn't mean they will use it correctly. At the beginning it provides only a little boost, but the longer a SWF plays together the more coordinated and tilted this advantage becomes. I've no doubt that most SWF start casual, but they never remain that way. It only takes five or six games of playing together before the transmission of information becomes efficient and the maximization of the advantage comes into its own.
Aside from the obvious boost it is giving the SWF over the Killer, there are other drawbacks. A 3-Person SWF tends to treat the Solo saddled with them as a Red Shirt (in the classic Star Trek vein) and thus will milk said person for points and let them die or sandbag them as necessary for the benefit of their group. Some SWF turn into Bully Squads, i.e. groups that have learned to maximize the advantage and go into games with the specific intent on making Killers have a bad time rather than to play the match. This, combined with the general stress involved in long, grinding matches against them, has led many Killers to dodge Lobbies where they even suspect there being a SWF. This in turn affects the Que for everyone.
The DEV have been attempting to offset the advantage of the SWF by adding more Perks to slow down the Gen-Rush or at least give the Killer the tools necessary to try. The problem is that this approach further strangles the Solos. Killers take every oppressive thing they can, because they must assume they are going to fight a SWF. Heck, I'd love to take a broader spectrum of builds than I do now, but I don't dare risk it. So the Solo gets the shaft again. Anything put into the game to counter the 5th Perk (Comms) hits the Solos three times as hard because they don't even have Comms. Around and around it goes.
My personal view is that Solo and Team (SWF) should be broken into two Ques. This can be done in a way that is not a bad thing, nor slow down Ques for anyone. It would even open up more monetary streams for the company. *Bear in mind that most people would play in both the Solo and The Team Ques from time to time. It would work like this:
This stays exactly as it is now, and already provides people a way to play a casual game among friends.
If this was done, the following benefits would apply:
The truth is I could probably add a few more to this list, but ten seems like a good place to stop. It is my belief that eventually the Ques will have to be separated. I do not begrudge people wanting to play with their friends. I would be lying if I said I never was in a SWF. Of course I've tried it. It is my participation in a SWF, and seeing what it allows, that convinced me that there is an issue. At the start, I was like a lot of people who felt it just didn't matter that much. It matters.
Kind of, I'm a casual player, I will play against anyone and any SWF, as long as it isn't 4 blendettes.
I will have fun against SWF, because I'm a blight main, and I can handle SWF with my build pretty well.
Pop, tinkerer, shadowborn and BBQ. If I'm zooming around the map I'm having fun.
they use object or all run ds+ub HELL NO.
I'll play against them most of the time and it can be fun if they are not sweats but if im playing as a killer im not the best with i will 100% lobby dodge them if i think its a swf since it will most likely just be a frustrating game.
Depends what Killer I play. If it's Legion or Oni I do have fun as long as it's not an object SWF.
It's different. They have different priorities than solo survivors that you can exploit. They'll often put themselves in a bad spot to save their friends, or take unnecessary protection hits. It's typically possible to tell if you're playing vs. a group depending on how they behave.
Additionally they're less inclined to d/c if you count down their decisives so that's nice.
This game is impossible as solo in red/purple ranks. Don't know how the low iq players are getting that rank.
Duo is playable, it's can be done 2vs1
I play both roles more or less the same, maybe 55-60% Survivor and I do enjoy SWFs, sometimes they stomp me, most times they do decently, sometimes they get stomped.
I do enjoy having to worry about stuff that Solos usually cant pull because they lack coordination like attempting sabo saves, pallet saves, flashlights also 3 genning them is usually harder so it makes for more interesting trials (funnily I find SWFs tend to create much more pallet dead zones than Solos, wonder why), sometimes they even bring super weird perk setups like Flip-Flop, Unbreakable and Tenacity of other less orthodox builds.
Now onto the SWATs, its like playing against Michael Jordan in basketball, I dont hate it but I wont enjoy much either because the sheer difference in skill.
No. Absolutely not. Maybe half of my games at my crappy rank has 1-2 red or high purple ranks queuing with a deranked account to crush lowbie killers. These groups are all insanely BM, always teabag and try to stall out the game as long as possible once they have the gates open.
It makes for a genuinely unpleasant experience.
I play both sides 50/50, so I'm not exactly a killer main. With that being said, I still go against SWF when I play killer, and for the most part I don't mind them at all. Maybe it's just pure luck, but the SWF groups I verse are usually really chill and just want to have fun with their friends. Here's a screenshot from a match I had with a SWF a long while ago.
This person later on said he and his friends usually go against camping/NOED reliant killer, and that they had a blast playing the match.
The only type of SWF that disappoints me for lack of a better word is the four man stack with object. For my opponents to tilt the game that heavily in their advantage is just pathetic. Still beatable, but pathetic on their part.
To answer your question, I don't think knowing they're a pre-made will change anything for me. Sacrificial Wards are finally a thing. What I want to see some tweaks to is meta perks stacking e.g four DSes and Unbreakables.
Is dependent on the SWF that I face how good are they and how do they play.
The biggest issue is that even when you are doing half decent or even pretty good the gens just go so fast if they are semi-decent or near your level. It is just really stressful, high intensity and half the times you feel as if you have no real agency in the game and waiting for them to mess up and overcommit. Usually after the grace period of the first three gens, I start playing dirty and then they tend to be pretty rude in the end-game chat: Filthy camping tunneling ez killer, even when they win. Yet they don't understand that they leave no real room for the killer to play any other way if they want to have a chance to win. This is enjoyable to some degree, but if it is every single game... which sometimes is the case... it stops being enjoyable. Killers just sometimes also just want a more casual game, that isn't reliant on snowballing out of control.
I have met a hand full of SWFs that completely destroyed me and are at a total different level, usually all good sports though. Is the game very enjoyable when this happens, not really but they are short and I am usually just in awe of how good they play. I also have no clue how to counter these people, tried everything even face camping and they manage to get people out. These are so little of these games that I cannot even find them annoying. I do my best, get a hook or 2 and bid them a gg with their 4 man escape.
Then we have the OoO groups, no matter what just not fun. If you think normally you have no agency, these groups are usually extremely toxic, able to call out every single move you do and use every trick in the book to ruin your game.
The Map/Key groups are also no fun to play against, I usually just get franklins out and my soul mission is to have them drop that key. If I noticed to late I will tunnel the hell out of the person with the key and map. De-pip or not, it really isn't my concern.
The map-offering SWFs just makes me sweat, no mister nice guy... I will use every trick in the book. You want me to stare at you through the corn, go to the chilly mountains of Ormond or the worse of all Haddonfield by your choice, you better be ready to have a sweaty match.
The bully squads with their 4 flashlights and all that, I used to hate going up against them and now after some practice and all that since they don't do much with the gens makes it more enjoyable. It is a totally different type of game though, where it just is about aiming to slug as many as possible and building up hook states.
Personally I would like indicators to know the size of the parties I am facing, sure we can deduct from the lobby in many cases. Yet most of the times you cannot really risk it as a killer. You have to assume they are together and be ready for it, meaning that even if you are facing a full solo queue many killers will go in hard, with the best builds they have and using all the tools they have available.
You cannot just relax, enjoy a casual game as a killer unless you are really good versus a SWF team that is at your level and since we are deprived of that information. My general rule is, play nice, try to get enough done till gen 2 and then do what ever is necessary to win if needed and the quicker you bash out those first 3 gens the less 'nice' I will play.
I can't really say yes or no, as my experience has shown me that purely the individual is what will make it fun to me or not.
WAY more often than not, if there's a SWF group of like 3-4 people, it's usually 1/2 of the 3/4 who are being...less than fun.
And if it isn't the entire group that's being less than fun, then i can't really chalk it up to SWF.
I wouldn't mind knowing if they are SWF, but it's not a necessity.
I mean, i already can check that if their profiles ain't private, so showing me immediately just makes things easier on me.
As a console player unless they have cute matching names or are obvious about it, it's hard to tell.
That aside my experience varies. Sometimes I can have fun fighting and losing against a sweaty team on Ormond, other times it's not fun to face a meme squad that spend more time sandbagging each other than playing the game.
It really depends on me and my mood at the time.
As for knowing or not, I don't really care. It wouldn't change how I prepare for a game.
I've definitely had fun aplenty vs sweaty 4-mans.
But some games just aren't fun. If they all have dead hard of sprint burst as well as at least one having object, then it's often very unfun, even if I do end up winning. You just know they all have DS/UB too, so they're untouchable if they run into you intentionally after being unhooked, and many love to do this.
As for knowing. It would be nice for stats' sakes, however tbh I don't think these swf's are that common at all in my experience. duos are pretty common, but honestly two duos vs a killer is honestly the most balanced game you can get, so it makes for some real fun/intense games, imo.
I was EXTREMELY unfun when i started the game. For players who still have to learn so much running into SWF who bully you all day is incredibly unfun and frustrating!!!
Now, with much more experience, these matches are often fun for me. Like when i face OOO teams with Third seal or teams that play heavely altruistic. It is fun because i know how to counterplay certain tactics or take my advantage out of them. But to reach this point it took a lot of salt and youtube videos.
100% on "I want to know who i go against"!
To be honest most of the times I can't even tell if a group is swf or not, I think in general we have to expect to have bad games from time to time.
There are fun and unfun players at every rank, in every role, swf or solo, I don't think you can just generalize.
Also to be fair I don't check profiles and most of the times I don't even pay attention to the names in the lobby, I usually select my offerings/addons/perks, press ready and tab out until the game starts.
Depends on the style of SWF and the killer im using. Being bullied as ghostface isn't fun, nor are those are clearly just playing to wind the killer up and raking points by trying to hook bomb and flashlight me the whole time with DS and Unbreakable. I do enjoy the challenge with trapper and against SWF that are completing the objectives. Being outdone by perks aint fun and those that kneel in front of hooks so you cant use it are a flecking nuisance.
Hmm.. it’s a difficult question to answer because of how subjective it can be match to match.
The only thing I can honestly say is that they’re damn hard work, but usually pretty predictable, and immensely satisfying to beat.
They usually send the most ridiculous messages too.
A few days ago I was Clown on Wretched Shop, running no add ons, and Bamboozle, Coulrophobia, Deerstalker, and Sloppy Butcher. I currently do a lot of slugging right from the beginning of the match because it’s one of Clowns few pressure tools. I don’t have much difficulty having 1 or 2 survivors down on the ground at a time. Anyway, last 2 survivors, both on death hook. I down an Ace, and immediately chase the Claudette that wasn’t being particularly discreet waiting nearby with her flashlight. Mid chase Ace DC, and Claudette is able to immediately jump into the hatch.
Anyway they both send a message, both along the lines of “ez, git gud noob” “Clown can’t win”.
I almost spat my coffee while laughing hysterically.
Umm... yeah... I was “stomped” lol 😂
There can be some tells.
Probably the most 100% indisputable evidence they’re SWF is when using Franklins, and quickly returning to a dropped item to see a different survivor attempting to retrieve it.
I never run Franklin's, so that's harder for me to tell lol
Depends on the players, but that goes for any match in just about any game afterall.
While I personally don't care I'd have nothing at all against post-match party indicators of some sort. Don't think pre-game ones are a way to go, but I highly doubt they'd ever be implemented without direct lobby dodging disincentivization included anyway.
I've found that at least in Red ranks, Solo Survivors are more tedious than SWFs. SWFs are usually bullshitting around, it's the Solo's that try to min/max because their main goal is escaping, whereas a SWFs main goal can be doing stupid shite. Playing with your buds rather than playing only to win.
But that's just my experience.
I tend to find hook blocking funny. They’re usually downed by me, and whoever I was carrying gets hooked anyway. A complete waste of their time.
1) yeah i enjoy the challenge
2) more fun than survivor ever will be.
I play both roles pretty equally, but prefer Killer; its also the role I started with.
In general, it can be. Despite comms being a huge advantage, even in casual SWF groups, not all utilize it properly. Sometimes you can get 3 or 4 average players that you would stomp if they were solo, and with comms they're a bit more challenging and it makes for a more fun match.
On the flipside, SWF who are competitive and efficient(mostly at high Red Ranks), absolutely not. They have a clear and significant advantage over Killer, and playing those matches are some of the most unfair and unfun matches I've played in just about any game. I have no problem getting stomped when Im just outplayed, but when Im playing well and still getting stomped, there's a clear problem. Anyone who refuses to admit that competitive SWF is a problem in this game is either blind or biased. And imo, this game will never get close to being truly fair and balanced, until the gap between solo Survivor and SWF is bridged; someone will always suffer, be it solo Survivors or the Killers.
I would say I have fun against like 90% of SWFs, considering most of the time I can’t even tell whether they are one or not and some of the obvious ones are quite altruistic which is fun for me. I don’t have fun against SWFs that are really desperate to win as fast as possible, like running multiple BNPs or Objects with a Coldwind/Ormond offering, etc. etc.
A SWF stack with flashlights or sabo builds or any of that stuff is pretty fun. Survivors that are just messing around with their friends are fun. Decent SWFs that talk to you like a human being post-game are fun.
I'm all up for it if they seem to be two couples or something, Three or four in a call is too coordinated and toxic to be fun for the killer.
I've no doubt that most SWF start casual, but they never remain that way. It only takes five or six games of playing together before the transmission of information becomes efficient and the maximization of the advantage comes into its own.
I have no idea what makes you say that SWFs never remain casual. It also doesn't make any difference how long a SWF plays together, really. Either you're a good player and can call out information well, or you're not. Either that's something you like to do while playing in SWF, or it isn't.
They have more information available to them than a combination of every single info Perk in the game
This is extreme exaggeration. Object by itself gives you more info than a typical SWF would (with the drawback of being terrible in solo queue, but still).
A 3-Person SWF tends to treat the Solo saddled with them as a Red Shirt (in the classic Star Trek vein) and thus will milk said person for points and let them die or sandbag them as necessary for the benefit of their group.
What makes you say that? I often play in two or three-man SWFs and this is something that we absolutely never do. It's not advantageous to the group to let your teammates die unless it's like a basement hook / NOED situation.
Splitting the game into two separate queues for solo queue and SWF would kill the game. Killers would never want to play in the SWF queue or, if there were an incentive to play against SWF, they would only do so while bringing their Iri Head / Infantry Belt / Ebony Mori and the like. I'm also just against changing the game balance such that SWFs need to be communicating well and sweating their balls off in order to do well. Many SWFs do not do that, and will instead perform poorly because they play too altruistically and will have a wider range of skill levels in their squad. Punishing people for playing with their friends is just going to kill the game.
Most balance issues that exist with SWF should be addressed by MMR. If you sweat like crazy in a premade of good players, you'll just be matched up with a disproportionate amount of god Nurses and Stridor Spirits.