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BHVR, PLEASE READ THIS ABOUT PH

People zoned with PH, and you thought it was too powerful. So you nerfed his POTD, right? Good idea in concept! Unfortunately, you nerfed him without enough buffs to compensate, which goes against your statement about not wanting to make him stronger or weaker. You missed why people zoned with him. His attack is overly telegraphed, and with the nerf that just came out, its even harder to use. Please, make POTD easier to hit and I and many others will be fine with this patch.

Comments

  • kazoie1kazoie1 Member Posts: 86

    The whole reason why people where using potd to zone was because unless a person was stuck in an animation it was too incredibly hard to hit with it. I've litteraly seen someone run across the potd before it got out to them leaving them unharmed. The only way they can make this nerf palatable is to actually make it so you can hit with potd without forcing people into a loose loose situation.

  • GoodLookinCookinGoodLookinCookin Member Posts: 342

    I never faced any op PH as survivor anyways, and now I probably wont play him as often anymore and I didnt play him that much to begin with.

  • Steel_EyedSteel_Eyed Member Posts: 2,573

    I plan on machine gun using his attack now. I consider this a balanced adjustment that puts his power more in line with Huntress. Good move.

  • MusicNerd_TCMusicNerd_TC Member Posts: 3,099

    Even though his power relies on the survivor making a mistake? A good survivor WILL be able to dodge his attack because of his big red light on the ground.

  • Steel_EyedSteel_Eyed Member Posts: 2,573
    edited October 2020

    ”Making a mistake” applies to every killer but Nurse.

  • OniWantsYourMacaroniOniWantsYourMacaroni Member Posts: 5,732

    Using it at closer range + ping can make it pretty hard to dodge it in my opinion.

  • MusicNerd_TCMusicNerd_TC Member Posts: 3,099

    Not really. You can't dodge huntress or deathslinger projectiles, as they are unreactable.

  • MusicNerd_TCMusicNerd_TC Member Posts: 3,099

    They are unreactable, it's mathematically impossible to dodge a huntress or deathslinger shot.

    I'd like to see video evidence of you dodging one, and not the other side just missing.

    If you really can dodge them, you have the new world record for best reaction time.

  • BullettimegodBullettimegod Member Posts: 715


    Ill have to record some at red rank on pc. But its doable. Granted im sure your argument is gonna be "new huntress"

  • notstarboardnotstarboard Member Posts: 3,638

    "Overly-telegraphed" how? You need both the killer and the survivor to have good ping to have a shot at dodging it, and he doesn't lift his blade until after the ground starts glowing, so you have to go off of the visual red light instead of an audio cue.

    I don't think PH needed a nerf, so if he's a lot weaker now, I'd be fine with some buffs. On paper the changes don't look so bad, though. They look like they'd hurt average PHs, but would raise the skill cap enough that good PHs wouldn't be hurt much.

  • adirgeforthedeadadirgeforthedead Member Posts: 285

    As a Pyramid Head main, once this bloody update is done with, I will play and come back to tell you my thoughts on the changes...

    I didn't have a chance of participating in PTB. For what I gathered, the changes aren't overly dramatic and I think it'd be an interesting addition, but all people complaining got me a bit... concerned.

  • adsads123123123123adsads123123123123 Member Posts: 316

    Huntress's hatch can be dodged at long range. The reason? It's forecasted before she throws it. You don't dodge Huntress's hatch by looking at the hatchet in real time. That's impossible. You just look at the direction she is facing while she is holding the hatchet, which is where the hatchet is going, and the moment she makes the throw sound, you change your direction. People react to sound far faster than visual, "Many researchers have confirmed that reaction to sound is faster than reaction to light. [5] Perhaps this is because an auditory stimulus only takes 8-10 ms to reach the brain, [13] but a visual stimulus takes 20-40 ms."

  • notstarboardnotstarboard Member Posts: 3,638
    edited October 2020

    Deathslinger also no; his shot is the same speed as Huntress's hatchets. If you're within chain range there just isn't enough time to even start reacting to the shot.

    Let's imagine you're right at 18m. The chain moves at 40m/s. That means the shot would hit the very edge of the capsule at 450ms. According to Wikipedia (link), college age individuals take ~190ms to react to a simple visual stimulus. DBD has so much going on that it's far from a simple reaction, but still, let's use 190ms as our floor. I was debating using the 160ms number since the chain is pretty much impossible to see while flying, but if you can't see the trajectory of the shot you likely don't know the right direction to dodge in.

    Anyway, now, let's assume that the shot is well-aimed and will give a hit if it hits any part of the survivor capsule (since I have no idea what the hitboxes look like). The capsule is .45m thick if I remember correctly, so you'd need to move .225m perpendicular to the trajectory of the shot in order to dodge it. Let's assume that the Deathslinger just aimed at your current position and didn't try to lead you at all. Let's also assume you're already facing sideways so you don't need to turn to dodge; otherwise that would waste even more time. Survivors move at 4m/s. With those assumptions, that's 56ms.

    Let's ignore frame rate, frame time, tick rate, and such, although they would normally impact things a little bit.

    So, in our absolute best-case scenario, in which you can see the trajectory of the shot the second it leaves the gun, your reaction time isn't slowed by the other distractions in the game, you don't need to turn your character to dodge, and you're at the absolute max range of the chain, you have 450ms - 190ms - 56ms = 204ms of headroom, so far.

    ...but this is ignoring ping. I'm not exactly sure where we are with hit validation and everything, but at the very least you'd need to wait for [1/2 Killer Ping] + [Survivor Ping] before a survivor would be able to react to and dodge a shot according to the server. My typical ping as survivor is 100-125ms. If the Deathslinger had similar ping I'd have like 30ms of headroom, maybe, even in the most ideal of situations. So, dodging any well-aimed chain outside of ~17m would be impossible.

    Let's imagine that the killer and survivor both have good ping (let's say 50ms). In that case, they'd have 129ms of headroom. In real life, there is no way you'll be able to evaluate that trajectory instantly, let alone see the chain. You'll have to turn your character instead of just run forward, which will waste time. Your reactions will be slowed by all of the other things you have to focus on. Your PS4's frame rate is going to hurt your reaction time further. The Deathslinger is not going to be shooting from 18m away. Etc.

    But, even in this unrealistic scenario, you would only be able to dodge a well-aimed chain outside of ~13m.

    -----

    TL;DR In an unrealistically idealized scenario, yeah, you can dodge max range Deathslinger shots. In the actual game, good luck with that.

    Edit: @Bullettimegod

  • GoodBoyKaruGoodBoyKaru Member Posts: 14,019

    no no i mean huntress you can dodge deathslinger you cant he's bullshit and i hate it

  • notstarboardnotstarboard Member Posts: 3,638

    Lol I had fun anyway XD 100% agreed about Deathslinger.

    This does apply to Huntress too btw, but only after she's charged her hatchet. That's incidentally why I think she's a lot more fair than Deathslinger. If she wants to ready an attack you can't dodge she needs to move slowly for almost 3 seconds with her hatchet up. That's enough time for the survivor to break line of sight, and they can even dodge around without losing distance. Neither is possible for Deathslinger.

    Can't wait for him to get the PH treatment, although he'd need other buffs.

  • ALostPuppyALostPuppy Member Posts: 3,399

    Really? Because from what I've seen he still has the "M2 into M1" shtick, it's just harder now and more of a niche timing. And he can now spam the living hell out of his ranged attack.

  • notstarboardnotstarboard Member Posts: 3,638

    It's definitely possible to dodge hatchets, but not max-charge hatchets (unless you are extremely far away).

  • BullettimegodBullettimegod Member Posts: 715

    The tell of huntress is what makes it easier to dodge. She grunts. I wish she didnt.

  • seki23seki23 Member Posts: 833

    wich is easy to dodge except for locked stuff and now survivors will be able to fake it way more consitently and getting ouy from situations for free.

  • megswifeymegswifey Member Posts: 801

    I always mess up because I look behind and then run into a tree lol :)!

  • ClickyClickyClickyClicky Member Posts: 3,536

    Lol the reason they said they didnt want to make him stronger or weaker was just damage control because they knew there would be an uproar amongst a minority.

    Notice how they say its to address complaints but 99% of complaints were survivors.

    He looks so stupid now. At least on otb he carried on moving at 4.4m/s which was his normal speed, now hes walking and just....kinda stops for a second. It looks stupid and clunky and it is but hey survivors got what they wanted so it doesnt matter.

    Irony is the weaker a killer is the more dirty you have to play. Im taking a break from the game after this and unsure if I will continue to play PH but if I do you can be damn sure im gonna be feeling more pressure to hard tunnel now. Good job survivors

  • Kumnut768Kumnut768 Member Posts: 789

    slinger is fair enough that part is up to the killer but huntress if you mean the ads time thats reactable, charged at long range is reactable but not at close range, depends what your definition of reactable

  • LiunUKLiunUK Member Posts: 842

    exactly, the PH players who use the ranged attack regularly by trying to predict survivors movement will have a better time now whilst the brain dead players who never even tried to learn how to uses his power but just saw that one person using the oppressive vault=die fake=die strat and just copied like little sheeple.

  • GoodBoyKaruGoodBoyKaru Member Posts: 14,019

    The funny part here is that he's not even that bad anymore and you can easily hit his POTD with enough practice and prediction, and if you felt like it you could still zone easily. Maybe, just maybe, it's not as bad as you're making it out to be.

  • Customapple0Customapple0 Member Posts: 629

    This change only affects PH players who only use his POTD on animation-locked survivors.

    Now you can be a lot more adventurous with his POTD without having to worry about such a long cool down.

    I wish that they had a look at some of his addons though.

  • adirgeforthedeadadirgeforthedead Member Posts: 285

    OK, I've played a few rounds as Pyramid Head and I find it even easier to control after this update. The cooldown decrease after using Punishment of the Damned makes it easier for me to get back into the chase after I've used the attack and I don't even resent the increased timing between attacks... I rarely feigned the attack and I even used it to try to guess the movement of survivors after vaults and running.

    For me, this is quite a buff in the whole extension of the matter.

    Also... why are we not talking about TRIAL OF TORMENT GRANTING YOU UNDETECTABLE UNTIL YOU HIT SOMEONE? Like I've probably given a few heart attacks to survivors now.

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