I said that because if we are looking statistics that's how it is. I can argue with his points because I have different opinion on him and Freddy is my 3rd most played killer so I know his pros and cons. Not everything in this game should have some master degree skill cap, especially if other side doesn't have it. I also play survivor a lot so I'm not just typical killer main, i understand both sides, but Freddy isn't big of a deal when you encounter good survivors, but he is noob stomper.
And where exactly is the game balanced around then?
Freddy is 200% fine where he's at. The game is allowed to have strong killers ya know.
Stats say that nurse needs good buffs. You cannot just cherry pick the statistics to fit your narrative
Yeah Idk what people are smoking when they say Freddy is fine. He's way too overtuned for his own good. The ruin+undying+tinkerer combo with good add-ons on him is completely busted too, which is probably another reason why his kill rate is so high. I think if all they did was limit the free pressure he gets (survivors should NOT passively fall into the dream world without some kind of interaction from Freddy. Make it so Freddy at least has to hit survivors to pull them into the dream world) he'd be fine
Yeah fredbo is a bit op. One of the first killers I got and I thought I was gonna have to go pro because everyone always says how hard it is for a killer to win but I had like a 90% win rate with him. Hes just that good
Okay just gonna say right off the bat I agree freddy atm is too strong. However I think the nerfs you list out for him are to overly complicated and unnecessary. Here's what I mean. When I or many survivors go up against a decent freddy my first thought isn't Oh god it's freddy, it's more like Oh God I bet hes got such and such add ons. Cuz he has the best addons in the game.
Said add ons are what make freddy that little bit too op imo. Yeah he's pretty good with his base kit. But I think that's exactly how a killer should be. They don't rely on addons, and can feel like and oppressive force. It is a proper game of cat and mouse.
He's one of the only intimidating killers in the game and I think more killers should have decent Mao pressure. As for his snares whilst I agree their good their only as good as their user and I hardly ever see them used well, same with dream pallets. I also find them quite easy to avoid a lot of the time once you know he has them.
Anyway my solution to the problem is to do your suggested add ons. I think.they make sense and are quite responsible, in fact I'd say make some more interesting add ons that offer different ways to play freddy that will keep him from becoming stale.
However I do strongly disagree that his base kit is op. If anything id say it's mostly balanced and killers should be more of a threat like freddy. The gen and map pressure he and other killers should provide could help stop gens from appearing to be rushed. That or give the survivors a second objective That's fun.
Balancing the game around 50% IS Such a good idea.
Since 2k means depip in red rank for KILLERS, how can you see that as balanced?
Your balancing issue doesn't take into account this clear part of the game, nor does it take into account that dying as a survivor doesn't mean that you are not progressing in rank, rank being the sole judge we have of a survivor / killer's performance in the game at this time, making it one of the only winning factor statically worth taking into account.
One death in your team make the game exponentially harder, should we get a buff as survivor for each downed teammates? Like.. . Let's say more gen speed for each teammates who died? Maybe even a move speed buff too!
Dying being absolutely irrelevant to our only grading of "winning", the problem is the incapacity of killers to reliably kill survivor's since a high kill rate doesn't prevent survivor from doing their job. 3 survivor dying to save one is still a win, it was teamwork that allowed this one person to escape the grasp of the killer and the punishment from the entity.
But I like the idea of running around without a killer because they are too weak to do anything, that's my dream for a survivor game, my 3 friends and I strolling in a cornfield, jumping over pallets as we skip around cheerfully with out crown of flower, careless about the possibility of the physically disabled angry person too slow and too weak for being of any threat to us... This would be so much fun taunting a powerless killer as we do whatever we please, that's balanced, 4 people out of 5 having fun, a huge win !
TLDR : kill rate is bullshit as a statistic for balance purpose, as 50% is a loss for the killer in the current state of the game and a win regardless for all survivors if you are not a potato
The game get exponentially harder for survivors for each full sacrificed, hence higher killrate killers have a form of easy-ish insta down or slow in their kits.
Survivor being killed doesn't mean a loss, right NOW pips are the "winning" indicator and death DOESN'T mean depip.
It means depip only if you get 2 hooks the whole game and you camp those two hooks wile the others do gens. Fun.
Not even a 1k is a depip if it's your 9th hook, even at rank 1.
So I'm gonna skip the rest of your wall of text, you're clearly just bad
Suit yourself, I didn't expect to see many people able to put any effort in thinking on this forum to start with.
I still tried, thanks for confirming that you are part of the majority. =)
Unlike you tho, I will take the time to reply to your message, I call it a basic form of respect, I invite you to try it sometimes, you may even get some respect back for it.
Now if you play killers, you should know WHEN and HOW the majority of 2k games happen. A key that gives 2 free escape, game were we run the killer's around on strong loops were they can barely get any hooking done until end game colapse, were they defend a hooked survivor hoping to get their only kill/ have noed and make a small comeback.
I'm surprised you didn't realise that already and were unable to notice how easily hook states can be skipped with you clear tremendously higher experience of the game compared to mine. And that's without counting the constant suicide on hook by random who got their fragile ego shattered after being downed first.
Balance involve both side having fun not only one, try to remember =)
Yes, but to get that much hooks, you need to win chases fast. And every time a killer does that, ppl cry he is unfair in a 1v1 situation, and gets nerfed.
As a freddy main myself I can agree that he is the most powerful killer I’ve played. All of your points are good and thought out as well as the change ideas. Unfortunately, this probably won’t be implemented which is a shame as bhvr hardly listen to their community anymore
Bring back the old Freddy and improve that kit and playstyle.
Only thing that they need to change about him is BT not working when you're in the dream world. Everything else about him is fine.
So, we have one group saying hes fine, maybe needs a small tweak. And the other side screeching because HeS sO oPpReSsIvE OP PLZ NURF. And when questioned "I HAVE OTHER EVIDENCE!!!" But its all circumstancial. No details on items used against and survivor skill. Just that hes easy for you to play so hes op.
Survivor was easy for me to play and I sucked at survivor, should they be nerfed because its easy for me to do well as a low rank survivor?
Pretty sure the one that’s just red ranks is very similar with Freddy.
It irritates me how much people take "don't take the stats as law" to mean "saying anything that the stats agrees with is INSTANTLY FALSE."
They've shown us he has the highest kill rates both at all ranks, and at rank 1 only. That should be enough to show he's problematic.
Also almost everything OP said is true, he's a VERY low skill cap killer with VERY strong powers, plural. And on top of all of it he has basically no drawback that every other killer has built in. I honestly can't see how he made it through this rework without being 110 when he has cross-map mobility AND slows in a chase.
I feel like I'm the only person who has read your post properly and not instantly 'but muh killers' responded.
Forever Freddy builds still exist and are absolute cancer to go against. And drawing conclusions or not from these charts, it IS clear that killers do not perform as badly as this entire hilariously biased forum seems to think.
so you have anecdotal evidence, and stats that shouldn't be used to determine balance. ain't that such an open and shut case?
Pallets are ridiculous too, compare his pallets to doctor's. Doctor's pallets are still effective because a survivor might think there's a pallet but then it disappears, I still get survivors down thanks to illusionary pallets but with Freddy's pallets survivors have to interact with them which is ridiculous
The evidence not being brilliant doesn't mean that the opposite of what he's saying is true. Plus half the time the devs just say "don't draw conclusions from stats" because they don't want to be told how to make decision more than they already are, and adding that disclaimer gives them an instant free out on any conversation.
the evidence not being good, means what he's saying is not supported by good evidence, therefore shouldn't be viewed as such.
is that such a hard concept to grasp?
they say to not draw conclusions from the stats, because the stats do not take into consideration several variables that would need to be taken into account before they can be properly used to draw conclusions. again, is that such a hard concept to grasp?
If you watched that Q&A stream my question was the very first one that was answered. The one about updating/buffing Myers. The answer I was given was they looked at Mikey's stats and saw he was in the top half of performing killers. Just like on those charts. So based on that they don't feel he needs any changes to his base kit.
So why can they use those stats to make a judgement like that about Myers but not Freddy?
They have internal stats that give a much more detailed picture of how things are faring with regards to balance. It's not just "oh, he's got X kill percentage? He's fine."
They didn't mention any internal stats. The rationalization was Mikey is bringing home the kills based on his stats so he's in a good spot and doesn't need changes.
With the Nurse's stats they explained her high skill cap and how so many people try and fail with her because she is hard to learn. That's why her kill rate is so low. Especially for console players who make up the majority of the player base. That makes sense for her stats even though she is the strongest killer.
They offered no such insights into Mikey's stats when denying him a buff simply because the stats say he brings home a high kill rate. They also said his power is unique (so are most killers even the weak ones). They said they always get positive feedback about Mikey from the community. That I believe is true since most people seem to love playing as or against Mikey. Cannot say the same for Freddy.
The pattern comes from the PREVIOUS data dump where Freddy also had the highest kill rate by a wide margin, both in all ranks AND red ranks (there were 2 charts). This coupled with my experience playing as and against him I can very easily point out the problems, as my experience is pretty consistent with the data dumps.
The straight up fact is that Freddy has too much in his basekit. @TAG and @Weck can say "don't draw conclusions" all they want, they fail to understand, somehow, that such a statement does NOT mean the data is useless. They are strawmaning nothing else, and unless they have a counter point to my actual arguments they are just being spiteful.
Freddy OP ? how about SWF ?
I Use Freddy often since already P3.. But, If I Met SWF and they are using good communication + coordination. They still escape 3 or maybe 4 people, if I am not focus enough. and u said Freddy is OP?
How long u have been here ? Ever seen old Freddy, Buddy ?
To be honest after playing new Freddy a bunch I would have been fine with this. I could identify exactly what the problem was with old Freddy and give ideas how to make it better. Namely his biggest problem was that he couldn't do anything to you while you were awake. A simple solution to this would be to make the transition block interactions other than unhooking perhaps. Then he could force you off a gen or a totem and into a chase. I would also have kept the dream clocks that give you another way to wake up. Among some other small things, but these would be the big 2 that would make the biggest positive difference.
It kinda does, though. I'm not strawmanning at all because I am telling you what the devs are saying, and you are kinda just ignoring it. I'm not presenting a tangential argument and using that to refute your primary claim.
I told you a different way of looking at the stats, where you cannot read "freddy" is op and doing so would be silly.
but yeah...just keep living in this universe where people aren't giving you perfectly reasonable reasons as to why the stats are unreliable at best. totally not disingenuous of you