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Thank You BHVR



  • FibijeanFibijean Member Posts: 8,343
    edited October 2020

    Thanks for proving my point. Rather presumptuous of you to assume I was defending BHVR as a company or that player criticism was the injustice I was referring to, don't you think? Especially since you're wrong on both counts.

  • LuffyBlackLuffyBlack Member Posts: 595

    I mean...

    Seeing as though the event is hidden behind Rift, which is essentially a battle pass I'd say it is in topic.

    But I'll be more specific. Do you think the reactions to the event are unfair? Asking in good faith because I'm insanely curious about your input. I know of you from lurking the forums.

  • sudintlinksudintlink Member Posts: 185

    I agree they've been very helpful to me and I think it's mostly since you know, most the community is toxic, they can't be appreciative of a lot.

  • Marc_go_soloMarc_go_solo Member Posts: 2,798
    edited October 2020

    I'm inclined to back OP on this. Overall, this game has been a lot of fun, and albeit there have been times where it did go wrong (a patch that screwed fps; ill-judged compensation for the Halloween event; that bloody hill!), they've fixed then - well, not the Halloween cosmetic debacle yet, but let's see what happens.

    It would help when people complain that they're more civil about it. Taking the cosmetic example, I do understand people being cross when they spend a lot of shards on a new cosmetic, just for it to be dropped in a day or two - something that just shouldn't happen for new cosmetics. However, a portion of those who are annoyed just going into spoilt brat rage mode, rather than being adult about it, saying why they're upset and posing a solution (refund the excess shards). There are fortunately a fair few who don't do that, but there are also those who just have a temper tantrum, and those are the ones who damage the cause.

    It's also not helped when - again a minority - disagree with what someone says, but rather than be diplomatic and either debate it or disagree, they just end up name-calling ("You've voiced that you've been treated well, therefore you're a simp" - makes literally no sense!).

    I'm glad there are those who challenge the devs. I'm also glad people share the positive experiences. There needs to be a balance. Currently, the game isn't in the best of health states, and from what I've heard and seen the PS4 needs some urgent attention. It can be better, and it can improve through the slump. But it does also require a passionate community to help it as well.

    Post edited by Marc_go_solo on
  • FibijeanFibijean Member Posts: 8,343

    I just meant it didn't have much to do with my comment, not that it was off-topic for the thread 🙂

    But sure, happy to give my input. Don't want to derail the thread though, so if you want to discuss it further probably best to post on my wall.

    While I don't believe abuse is necessary in any context and therefore don't condone the way some people are conveying their displeasure, I don't think the player response on an emotional level is unfair or unwarranted.

    That said, I don't think the event's integration into the Rift or Tome challenges is the issue. They did that last year and it was fine (albeit a little disappointing in comparison to the 2018 event). The problems this year, in my opinion, are (1) the lack of meaningful free content (i.e. grindable skins), though this has been recently amended somewhat; (2) The Dwight Crow nonsense (pretty much everything about it except for the charm itself - the hypocrisy around the exclusivity, the way it rewards the fastest typists in the community rather than the most dedicated or enthusiastic players and excludes console players or those with disabilities or bad internet or no Twitch access, how generally demoralising it is for the majority of people, etc); and (3) The fact that there isn't much else to the event aside from bloodpoints and charms to make up for how much those first two things suck.

    I should also say that, having taken the trouble to gain more insight into the perspective of game developers in general than probably the average gamer has, I believe there is a pipeline-related explanation for why things went the way they did with this event, and I don't think that the devs are unintelligent or deluded enough to think that this event is on par with others they've released in the past, or to not have foreseen at least some of the backlash from the community. BUT I don't think that's at all obvious, on this occasion, to the community, because without having any insight into the devs' side of things, it really does come across greedy and out-of-touch even to people like myself who have historically been fairly optimistic and gracious about giving the devs the benefit of the doubt. So given that, I do think the expectations players had of the devs in this case were reasonable, and therefore the backlash resulting from those expectations being disappointed is entirely justified, even if I don't agree with how some people are going about it.

  • NursesBootieNursesBootie Member Posts: 2,159

    I play DBD since 2016 and i spent around 100$ on it. I won half of the DLCs with a bet and bought most original chapters with iri shards tho.

  • RaSavage42RaSavage42 Member Posts: 3,379


    A big step forward

    Can't wait to see what happens

  • MoundshroudMoundshroud Member Posts: 4,460
    edited October 2020

    Simple. It is the least expensive game I've played because I don't care about cosmetics. I think the fascination with them is weird. I'm happy (thrilled even) to get the free ones, but I'm not generally spending money on them. I bought the core game on sale. I've picked up the odd DLC (Halloween for example) to get the Killer I wanted, and I unlock Perks at the Shrine with shards. At most I'm into this game for about 40-60 in U.S. dollars. Most games I play start at $40+ to buy the base game.

    You might say that I'm not an ideal customer because I am a one and done kind of fella. I'm here for the game, not the look. The first thing I asked a friend of mine is "what" benefit or game change do you get for that awesome looking skin on your Killer. He kind of shrugged and said, "well... nothing." I pointed out he now glows in the dark and can be seen coming a mile away. He looked at me funny and clearly was thinking that I just don't get it. I don't. I don't get it at all. But then again, I'm the competitive sort. I compete with myself. I don't want to advertise Prestige. I don't want glow in the dark outfits. I think they look GREAT, but they don't serve my personal purpose. Are you picking up what I'm putting down? This game doesn't require you to pay-to-play. The competitive edge comes from practice, not purchase.

  • MoundshroudMoundshroud Member Posts: 4,460
    edited October 2020

    This is fair. You will note, I never said that people shouldn't express their dismay or concerns. It is how those concerns were expressed that I think are destructive to the community itself. I personally believe that all the same people could have stated their feelings in a way that would not have created an "us versus them" environment, and would still have had the same outcome. It might even have had a more lucrative one. I think it is dangerous to point and say, "look at the results we got!" I look at what happened and say, "why this company is probably a hair away from being entirely jaded and flushing these players." Companies are made up of people, and people have feelings. People tend to see certain behaviors as being ungrateful. Worse still, they start to think, "no matter what we do, we get treated the same way. If we are going to do the time, we might as well do the crime." If we as a community always badmouth them (and on their dime by the way) there comes a point where catering to us is counter-productive.

    I think if the same NUMBER of people had expressed their dismay and concerns in a thoughtful, polite but firm manner we would have gotten the same result (or better) and the company/game would have gotten good press. It would have been win/win. Right now, we created a situation where addressing our concerns is NOT win/win. It remains a win for us and a lose for them. I just don't think that model is sustainable.

  • TerroTerro Member Posts: 1,171

    The OP is called that because they kept defending bhvr no matter the circumstances, whether they deserve it or not, and how much they kept failing. Even in the OP's post BHVR is definitely not... Well not great in performance but they've done enough for the OP. It may not be enough for others though and other ppl may not have experienced the same things the OP had with BHVR.

    If the police, the army, whatever only followed orders without thinking about what's right or wrong then i'd also think that they're white knighting by defending things they shouldn't be. That's probably the source of a lot of problems with the police and military at this point...

  • MoundshroudMoundshroud Member Posts: 4,460
    edited October 2020

    Except that I'm not defending the company "no matter what". What I am doing is calling out an obnoxious, over the top response. I personally think that Halloween should always be their FLAGSHIP event, and probably a loss leader. I think that makes good business sense. I think this could have been handled better. However, I think we forget, as a community, that DbD is not their only game, they are NOT a giant corporation, and they have resources which must be stretched just like everyone else. They have people to pay, real people whose households depend on them. Sometimes they are going to make financial choices which we will never understand because we are not privy to all the information.

    What I said, is they have always treated me and mine very well, exceeded my expectations compared to my experiences with "actual" scummy companies, and that they didn't warrant being treated like they broke into people's houses like Repo Men to take Grandma's Dialysis Machine back. My objection was to obnoxious behavior and an unwarranted (and unfair) response. I react the same way to bad sportsmanship too. I think manners cost nothing. I also happen to believe that if the same people (in the same numbers) had voiced their concerns and desires politely that we would have gotten the same (or better) results.

    The key point I wanted to make is that I didn't get SPECIAL treatment. That 2.5 Million BP they gave me over the last couple of months was made available to everyone here. I'm sure not everyone availed themselves, and some came later, but it isn't just ME they have treated fairly. It is all of you as well. I have a hard time not thinking of Dudley from Harry Potter, ranting and raving about how he got one less present this year than the previous one. That isn't a good look, and it wasn't necessary to get the job done. Many people here have legitimate concerns and complaints. I had a problem. I communicated it in a polite, professional way and they fixed it. Do you see my point?

  • xenofon13xenofon13 Member Posts: 1,241

    Thank you bhvr for this beautiful game breaking patch, the beautiful event with so many gifts, the people who bought the 21k shards cosmetics and few days later went down to 9k, the beautiful dwightcrow charm.


  • NomiNomadNomiNomad Member Posts: 2,749

    Alright, so first I will admit freely - my post was probably undeserved. I was pissed about the event, along with a multitude of real life things, and I took it out on BHVR on the forums. I can see all the points you made, and for any backlash you got over my post, I'm sorry. That wasn't really my intention at all, I just needed to vent.

    My problem with BHVR right now is the multitude of other problems that have been completely ignored. No free skins, whatever - I don't care. At least it's not a loot box system or something like that. The free skins was my main point because of how it felt like, to me, BHVR wasn't doing anything for their consumers. In the end, the game is nothing without their community, and this didn't really prove to me and a lot of other people that they care about their community.

    Because other than the event, the skins, whatever - this patch actively broke the game on PS4, introduced a torrent of new bugs, and bugs that are well over a year old now still remain in the game. This patch was a huge step in the wrong direction, at least to me. BHVR has addressed the PS4 problem, I'll give them that, but that doesn't change the fact that the console versions are incredibly poorly optimized, and they have been for a long, long time despite promises to fix it. There are still so, so many bugs in this game that have been there for months. Sound is always a huge one, as it seems they somehow manage to break sound more and more with each passing patch. There's a bug where some survivors will be completely silent on the ground. And it has been there for more than a year at this point. Patches like this, and events like this where the whole theme is "buy, buy, buy!" when there are still so many broken things, yes, seem greedy to me. I don't care about free stuff nearly as much as I just want them to fix their game. From my point a view, these patches focus on quantity rather than quality.

    I completely understand why, at the end of the day they are a company and they need to make money, but with every patch they make that introduced new bugs and new problems to an already huge array? They need to do something, and none of their responses have been super great. So, yeah, BHVR does give us stuff like BP, and even as I am thankful for the current login rewards, the game is broken, and they're not making big enough strides to fix it. Free currency doesn't change that. I love this game, and what it's managed to do, and I don't want to see it fail, but in the current way it's headed I don't see it lasting much longer. I don't know.

  • MoundshroudMoundshroud Member Posts: 4,460

    And I think this is a fair, moving post. I think if we really want to be a community, rather than a weird gathering of angry Trolls and misfits, we have to learn to reign in our more angry or just petty natures. I also love this game, and I've not been around as long as you. I see the issues, but I suspect I am just naturally an optimistic person. I think for the community and the company to move forward, it has to be Win-Win. I've often suggested that they take this Forum down. All it does is spread bad PR, and on the company dime. If people are that passionate that they want to keep up the rants, let them pay for it.

    The company, however, is more progressive than I am. I think that says a lot about them that we should not take for granted. I think they need a little appreciation now and then, and that it might be more reciprocated in the way people want, rather than just how the company guesses. I just think we catch more flies with honey than with vinegar.

  • Marc_go_soloMarc_go_solo Member Posts: 2,798

    The negativity towards them feels like it comes from a vocal minority of the player base. Sure, the majority may also have comcerns, but either they don't see it as sufficiently problematic, or maybe they just send tickets and leave it as that.

    There was a post recently about "The beginning of the end" which cited Steam statistics (which the guy did say take stats should be taken with a grain of salt) and showed the player loss. However, I also found this information for PS4:

    This seems to show it's still pretty healthy.

    People become more motivated by negativity. Plus the strong emotions behind it generate more views. Positivity is not as strong a feeling, but it should be. Nice post OP👍

  • NomiNomadNomiNomad Member Posts: 2,749

    I used to be an optimistic person, the literal day before the event I made a post about how we should at least be able to appreciate somewhat that the game has brought so many horror icons together, and I still believe that. But I've also waited, and waited for issues like this to be fixed, and it's never come. If they shut down the forums, as toxic as this place can be sometimes, I'm afraid that'd only get a ton more hate thrown towards them. Feedback, positive or negative, is important for a games lifespan. I don't know, I just want to see BHVR respond more. I understand why they don't, no matter what they do they get complaints - a unfortunate side effect to anonymity on the internet, but their responses are so often, "We've heard you, we're talking about it, we can't tell you anything more." That's not a great look. My biggest fear right now is when the new consoles roll around, the old versions will be left in the dust and ignored. I don't know. I just want this game to succeed, it's so unique. If it seemed like they were doing something for all the issues, I would probably settle back in that optimistic point of view. But as it is now, I can't see it coming.

  • BigTimeGamerBigTimeGamer Member Posts: 1,752

    So if I pour coffee on you but say sorry and give u a thin napkin, it’s okay?

  • BigTimeGamerBigTimeGamer Member Posts: 1,752

    Fun fact, the previous events were also free, as was the cosmetics at the time

    also this isn’t even an event lol

  • TerroTerro Member Posts: 1,171

    My bad for being overly hyperbolic. I kept rewriting it to try to explain what I meant better and it ended up that way.

    I'm not here to argue about your opinion on how well BHVR deals with their pr cuz it'll get us nowhere.

    Also, about your point on everyone receiving the blood points... Not everyone received the bloodpoints due to bugs and lack of communication. For some ppl it just suddenly appeared without them knowing why. For others they suddenly lost blood points. some ended up with 0 blood points or worse they had negative points. For others they didn't gain anything cuz they were maxed out. Things were(are) pretty buggy and the communication wasn't (isn't) quite all there.

  • MoundshroudMoundshroud Member Posts: 4,460

    And I would urge anyone this happened to to put in a ticket. The company must know about its codes and issued points, and whom actually got them. I take a screen shot of my Scrooge McDuck treasure horde of stuff built up on my Myers EVERY day. Why? If something happens and I've suddenly lost all those Add-On(s) and offerings, I want to be able to give them something to show the issue. Do I have faith it will be taken care of? Yes. They have earned that trust from me. So I think it behooves all of us to take precautions and save information. Computers and software are not reliable even when coders regularly work on it. Government systems that control our Nukes constantly have issues. In short, should bad things happen? No. Can we mitigate the damage by being proactive? Yes. Can we get our issues resolved with effort and a little patience? In my experience so far, yes.

  • dugmandugman Member Posts: 7,873
  • AnotherJacobAnotherJacob Member Posts: 64

    I did check the csv data used for this chart, two remarks:

    1) The most popular month was August 2018 when it was free (from 1081700 to 5567900 players);

    2) The latest date available (2020-10-18) is before the latest patch (which broke the game for ps4 players);

  • Marc_go_soloMarc_go_solo Member Posts: 2,798

    Yeah, it was the 18th October that the last data was done, so I do expect it to tank. At the same time, it's still a healthy number. Interestingly, I never knew so many played on console! I genuinely thought PC had more, but this trumps those Steam stats easily - even though we shouldn't take stats too seriously...

    ... why do we bother with stats again, if they aren't taken seriously?

  • Jyn_MojitoJyn_Mojito Member Posts: 515

    @Moundshroud I appreciate you bringing attention to the positive points. There is a lot of good here, but I'm really doing my best to hang in there as a PS4 player. I just want to be able to play the game I bought, and I think a big portion of player frustration is on that issue.

  • kosmikosmi Member Posts: 363

    Well people got played by their own fault instead to wait they jup for cosmetics right away....

  • Squirrel_ThiccSquirrel_Thicc Member Posts: 2,678

    I think it's funny you're defending bhvr when they clearly couldn't care less about you or the rest of the community.

    And you're grateful for a damage control addition...lol. You really think bhvr gave a discount and free bloodpoints and shards because they care? It was purely damage control.

  • LuffyBlackLuffyBlack Member Posts: 595

    I disagree with this. Civility accomplishes absolutely nothing. This is well meaning, I'm sure but utterly unrealistic. Only when players has shown that they were savvy enough to recognize when their good faith has been taken advantage of and respond with outrage when Behavior decided to pay attention.

    I will say this. The outrage will die really soon. If it isn't other players missing the point of community's anger, if it isn't the community doing damage control without even being paid for it, or the community being easily distracted things will calm down sooner or later. And that's unfortunate. I'm already seeing killer VS survivor posts again. This will indicate that business will proceed as usual and the customers will be exploited.

    Oh and those uh free shards? It's a means to ensure that the "engagement" continues. It's a popular trend among big businesses in the gaming community to ensure their live services are still worth a damn to their share holders.

    Which brings me to my temperament towards you, my concern is for you the community and my fellow players than some big company.

  • LuffyBlackLuffyBlack Member Posts: 595

    Absolutely. I will be more than happy to do that with you. I'd almost forgotten that was a feature.

    See, that's my issue--(1)I find the community will be far more forgiving if Dead by Daylight was free. As I stated earlier: I think the community was quite tolerant of it, a bit too tolerant for my tastes, but they were fine with the direction DBD was headed until this event? That seems like that was the last straw for most people. Dead by Daylight makes the mistake of having FTP mechanics in a game that cost money. There shouldn't even be a Rift, it's essentially a battle pass.

    (2)I'm honestly not in the know about this. I've seen mention of a Dwight Crow and charms but I don't have any insight into that. I'll have to look into it. But I do agree especially as someone who believe the industry needs to be more accommodating towards those with disabilities

    (3) I'm sure Behavior will whip up something. Though to me, I would like to see real changes. Bloodpoints and shards alone are simply not enough.

    I agree with you. I don't think the developers are clueless at all, that makes this situation even worse. I don't share your insight of game development, my inside knowledge comes from working in the field of customer service, I'd love to elaborate further but I am chained to an NDA. I've seen the victims of these "live services" many of them are mentally ill or former addicts who are exploited by their favorite hobby. EA, Epic Games, and Activation to name a few have these people in their sights and these people end up being my customers. For this reason I believe outrage is warranted, I'd go as far as to say the community isn't going far enough. Outrage is an amazing tool, it's powerful and it could change so much but that alone does nothing. The consumers need to vote with their wallets. Do not waste their money purchasing skins, do not sign in during free bloodpoint days because those are meant to track engagement that's how these services function. Push for changes that are practical instead of being content with being sold a solution to problems the developers themselves cause. This will be blow over in probably another week anyway. Which is sad, seeing the community unite over that matters was neat.

    That being said, I appreciate your response.

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