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Desperate measures & Self care is a pretty great combination

MTKMTK Member Posts: 43

If you are someone who likes using heal-releated perks such as We'll Make It or Autodidact, Desperate Measures(the new perk from Felix) is a pretty damn good replacement. It's great for turning the tide because its effectiveness increases when more survivors are injured/dying/hooked. It even increases the efficiency of Self Care so much that it's practically the speed of someone else healing you. I know SC has a stigma on the forums but I think the utility it provides(i.e. having the ability to restore to full health without needing to find anyone else) is quite valuable and when it's buffed by Desperate Measures it's really, really handy. I'm bilingual with english and korean so I also watch some korean dbd streamers here and there and a really good player employs SC & DM when playing survivor. I was VERY skeptical of it at first but once I tried it myself, it's so freakin good. You should definitely try esp if you are someone who likes healing speed buffs.

Comments

  • TheClownIsKingTheClownIsKing Member Posts: 2,132

    I like using Botany Knowledge + Desperate Measures + Self Care, that way I can always heal others and myself super fast.

  • DeadeyeDeadeye Member Posts: 2,857
    edited October 26

    It totally doesn't increase Selfcare that much. You need to get to 100% increased healing to get to the basic healing speed of 16 seconds. Meaning, the 50% reduction from Selfcare also reduces the bonus from DM. So with 4 injured people you are at 78% of the normal speed, which is 20,5 seconds instead of 16 seconds. Not sure if you want to wait until 4 people are injured before you selfcare. With you being the only one, you are at 28 seconds.

    If you have 4 stacks + Botany Knowledge, you are at full speed. If you want to heal yourself quickly, I think taking 3 perks is pretty bad to do that. If you want to do a full healing build, I would at least communicate that with the team in chat and probably take Empathy as well. So maybe some of the others get rid of some healing stuff to rely on you.

    But 3 perks is tough though. You only have 1 more slot for stuff like you normally need very often, like totem perks, exhaustion perks, BT/DS/UB or info perks like Kindred, Bond, Alert, Spinechill etc.

    And I would for example not combine it with Autididact. The speed boost robs you a lot of skillchecks, you are less likely to get the stacks up. But I played Botany + BT + DM with sometimes even only yellow medkits on Felix for some time now because I got all to tier 3 on the way to level 50. min 50% faster medkit heal on yourself and the increased unhook speed + BT really can save lives. I had one game where I got someone out of the hags basement twice with that combo. DM can really support some good altruistic builds

  • bjorksnasbjorksnas Member Posts: 1,738
    edited October 26

    self care is a modifier not a additive so its not -0.50 charges/second (thats how speed is measured) its (charges/second)/2

    (base healing speed + bonus)/(modifiers * other modifiers) = x charges per second

    heres a table to show you how effective those healing perks are

    alone they are decent for both selfcare and healing teamates but together they are really strong especially since it makes at most self care take 21.7 seconds or at best 16.9 seconds

  • DeadeyeDeadeye Member Posts: 2,857
    edited October 26

    The thread was about speed, not charges per second. Selfcare does not consume any charges.

    And I said nothing wrong, the table states this as well.

    • I said, 1 stack of DM takes Selfcare 28 seconds -> Line 1 right most column
    • I said, 4 stacks of DM takes Selfcare 20.5 seconds -> Line 4 last column
    • I said, you need 4 stacks + Botany + Selfcare, meaning 3 perks and rare conditions, to get to full speed (which isn't even true, it still takes 0,93 seconds longer than team healing -> last line, right column)

    So in case you wanted to correct anything I said, what did you mean? Also, my point was, that the title said only DM + SC, which does not increase SC speed that much. You need Botany as well to make it worth it. As the title and OP doesn't talk about Botany (also in OP "It even increases the efficiency of Self Care so much that it's practically the speed of someone else healing you") I simply disagreed with the mentioned massive speed bonus of DM alone.

    EDIT: btw I also said that negative effects are multipliers, not additive, I just formulated it differently. I said "50% reduction from Selfcare also reduces the bonus from DM" which is exactly what your x/2 formula says.

  • WTBaconWTBacon Member Posts: 338

    Speed = Charges / Second

    Base heal time is 16 seconds because you heal at 1 charge / sec for 16 seconds.

  • bjorksnasbjorksnas Member Posts: 1,738

    ....thats how speed is measured in this game in charges per second both with and without items and using the same formula of

    (1+bonus)/(modifiers * modifiers) *modifiers add multiplicatively with other modifiers all bonuses are additive

    the reason they have it is because that way when you are using an item it drains its charges properly, for example if you have a medkit with 16 charges and all of the above speedbuffs

    healing yourself at 189% speed uses 1.89 charges per second of the medkit and heals at the same rate*

    *not accounting for efficiency from botany knowledge

  • DeadeyeDeadeye Member Posts: 2,857

    Yeah, got that from WTBacons response already. So what about the other stuff I wrote? I don't get why you quote me with that math stuff. I listed that I said exactly everything what this table is listing, but OP was not talking about Botany Knowledge. And without Botany, Selfcare speed is seriously not buffed that hard

  • bjorksnasbjorksnas Member Posts: 1,738

    Selfcare speed not buffed that hard? 57%, 64%, 71%, 78% healing speed without a medkit isn't that good? remember that self care used to be overpowered at 80% and with one extra healing speed perk alone you can nearly already reach it, it was so strong in fact that they nerfed the perk to 50% speed. And the perk itself was so influential that the entire healing time had to be increased from 12 to 16 seconds because even a 24 second self care was too strong for the game.

  • DeadeyeDeadeye Member Posts: 2,857
    edited October 26

    Yeah, it was overpowered because you had that in a single perk. Imagine some games of vanilla DBD, meaning no perks and addons on any survivor and killer. Then think about what each perk is capable to do when you only had one perk slot.

    Being depending on a team mate to heal is quite a big thing, there is a lot of stuff you should not do while you are injured (basement unhooks, dead zone gens...). The current SC version is at 50% because it takes basically the same time as team heal. 2 survivors healing for 16s or one healing 32s comes to the same amount of seconds that survivors do not work on gens. Meaning: old SC not only gave you the possibility to heal whenever you want and whenever you need it, it was also more efficient to do so rather than getting healed by a mate.

    A single perk removing the requirement of survivors teaming up at a very low cost is OP, yes. Having 2 perk slots blocked for that effect, while you most of the time do not even have that full speed boost is ok. As I said before, you can wait with selfcare until everyone is injured. Not sure if that is what you plan to do with selfcare. Otherwise, the perk combo mostly saves you a mere 4 seconds. And the counter arguments, why 32s of SC is mostly bad, don't get silenced by a 4s boost

    EDIT: and I don't think that 12 to 16 second increase was done in regard to SC. That was more an overall game balancing thing, because "spreading damage" was more a thing that made killers lose games than win it, unless you are super efficient with it, like on Legion or with STBFL or with unsuccessful body blocking while carrying a survivor.

  • MadLordJackMadLordJack Member Posts: 3,579

    That and Kindred has been my standard build for weeks. No matter what, you're healing at +47% speed.

  • TheClownIsKingTheClownIsKing Member Posts: 2,132
  • DeadeyeDeadeye Member Posts: 2,857
    edited October 26

    23,5%

    see above tables. SC reduces the DM and Botany buff as well

  • TheClownIsKingTheClownIsKing Member Posts: 2,132

    I tend to run Botany Knowledge, Self Care, Desperate Measures, Leader (so I ca be healed faster by others)

  • bjorksnasbjorksnas Member Posts: 1,738

    self care isn't bad the people using it the wrong way are, also speed boosts at the costs of other perks are some of the strongest perks in this game because survivor skill can make up for not having other perks but the time gained by having them cannot be made up for with skill

  • SonzaishinaiSonzaishinai Member Posts: 2,483

    God I would hate that build when playing Legionlol.

    I think i would rather face DS+ unbreakable nonsense then this

  • MadLordJackMadLordJack Member Posts: 3,579

    Negatives are multiplicative, positives are additive. It's a baseline .47 extra charges a second.

  • DeadeyeDeadeye Member Posts: 2,857

    I never said that SC isn't bad. I also stated this opinion on several other threads. The power of SC is not that you can use it whenever or wherever you want, nor how often you want. The power is that you can heal yourself when you need it.

    But people using SC won't make players with bad SC usage that much better. The main flaws and how you waste time with that perk are still a thing. If someone dies on hook while you selfcare, a 4s boost will only rarely safe that person.

  • MadLordJackMadLordJack Member Posts: 3,579

    I honestly feel like Leader and Self Care are more interchangable than complimentary in that build, but at the same time you are literally covering all bases in the healing department.

  • DeadeyeDeadeye Member Posts: 2,857
    edited October 26

    Nope. Look at the table and calculate. This "positive adds" "negative multiplies" thing is a bit confusing apparently.

    The multiplier reduces ALL of the positive things. base 1 plus a .47 bonus means 1.47. Then SC cuts that half to 0.735. which means you boost the 0.5 SC base by 0.235

    A 47% bonus would mean you are at 97% healing speed, but you are at 73,5% speed

    16/0,97 = 16,5 sec but 16/0,735 = 21,77 sec

    Or you mean 47% increased speed on a 32s base. That would be 32/1,47 = 21 sec

    Depends what you regard as 100% and what you base your percentages of. I think this is quite an error prone topic, regarding understanding

  • KoloniteKolonite Member Posts: 1,083

    Personally I'd go full selfless. Botany knowledge, Desperate Measures, Deliverance, and maybe Second Wind. Definitely not meta, but it's something I've been thinking about trying myself.

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