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My thoughts on the Twins changes.

So, I was waiting with bated breath for Twins changes. I loved them to absolute death on the PTB, to the point where I stayed on the PTB until Steam forced me back into live servers to do absolutely nothing but play them. That said, they still felt extremely limited, and I was very unsatisfied with how this conceptually incredible Killer was so poorly executed. So when I heard that changes to the Twins were announced, I immediately went to go check them out.

Now that I've seen them, I'm... disappointed.

Firstly, let's talk the changes I'm happy about.

  1. Increasing Victor's movement speed while charging a pounce
  2. Allowing Victor to hold Survivors in a locker
  3. Allowing Charlotte to actually make use of Victor's ability to hold Survivors at the gate

I will need to see both of the first two changes in action before I can come up with anything conclusive. For all I know, the movement speed could still be way too slow, and the time to break free from a locker could be way too short. But the simple fact that they've addressed these issues of awfully easy, completely impenetrable defenses against Victor's pounce is a relief, and hopefully he won't be so braindeadly easy to render absolutely useless. As for the third, it's really nice that this entire function of keeping Survivors from exiting can, you know, actually be used now.

Now onto the changes I don't like.

  1. The Coup de Grace nerf
  2. Being able to see Victor and recall him after being on someone's back for 45 seconds

Firstly, no one thought Coup de Grace needed to be nerfed. Plain and simple. Nerfing it was a bad decision and one I sincerely hope they revoke. If anything, it needed a buff so that the Killer can have more actual freedom in choosing when it gets used. Right now Survivors have to do their objective for this situational Perk to activate, and you lose a token as soon as you lunge, even if you didn't actually get any extra range out of it. It's very, very hard to put yourself in situations where you get value out of the Perk. It didn't need a nerf to reduce its actual tangible effects even further.

Secondly, the change to pouncing is amazing in concept, but... 45 seconds? That's way, WAY too long. Keep in mind, that's 45 seconds where Charlotte has literally no power. It's like reverse tier 3 Myers, or like that one Nurse addon: Your reward for using your power on Survivors effectively is an extended duration of losing your power completely. I think this change would be a lot more helpful if the timer was reduced to 20 or 25 seconds, maximum.

But more than the changes I dislike, what most disappoints me is changes that just weren't made at all. There are still issues that are, in my opinion, absolutely glaringly red sores on this Killer's ability to freely use their power. Problems that place unnecessary restrictions on them, significantly reducing the value of their power and the things you can do with it.

  1. Reducing the stun when missing a pounce
  2. Reducing the time taken to switch from Victor to Charlotte
  3. Giving Victor an ability to recall Charlotte or otherwise deal with downed Survivors, gens that need to be regressed, et cetera.

For the first change, the 3-second stun on its own isn't necessarily what irks me. Victor is very fast and the pounce will (hopefully) have a lot of potential after the upcoming changes; a stun that long is worth it. What irks me is that it's a 3-second stun during which a Survivor can walk up and KICK AND KILL VICTOR and force him back into Charlotte, completely and utterly terminating the chase if Charlotte wasn't nearby. What if whenever Legion entered fatigue, you could One Punch Man him across the entire map? What if whenever Demogorgon missed a Shred, you could send him back into a portal and teleport him away? What if whenever Nurse missed a blink, you could force her to un-blink and move back to her original location?

It's silly. If you miss your power ONCE the Survivor shouldn't have what feels to the Killer like 7 years to walk up and literally terminate you, with nothing you can do about it except sit and watch it happen. Reduce the stun to something more reasonable, like 2.5 seconds or 2.25. Hell, make it 2 if you need to. If you're going to give Survivors the option to kick the Killer out of existence, at least give them a limited window to do so. Make it harder to time. Give an actual risk to attempting a chase-ending, potentially game-changing play.

For the second change, I feel like it should be obvious. You want to apply pressure as Charlotte if someone is near her? You want to pull a sick mindgame where Survivors think you're playing Victor but then switch to Charlotte when they run near her? You want to be able to defend Victor as Charlotte? Well good luck buckaroo because it takes 3 entire seconds to switch to a Killer with absolutely no special abilities of which to speak. 3 entire seconds for Survivors to react to your mindgame, to finish what they need to finish, to W key in the other direction. That's not even including the whole "completely basic 115 Killer with no mobility whatsoever" hindrance that Charlotte's got chained to her ankles.

The third change... I just want to be able to regress gens and hook Survivors after Victor downs them. I don't want to be forced to slug if I don't want to. It takes ages to move Charlotte to Victor's location. I hate it so damn much. Do something about it. Please.

Overall, these changes are (mostly) in the right direction, but I just don't think they're enough. I feel that there are still numerous limitations that shouldn't be there, and I think if something is done about them, the Twins could be one of the most fun, interesting Killers in the game. Their concept is so unique and it bums me out that they're so bad. Especially considering we were just given the two absolute top tier beasts that are Pyramid Head and Blight.


  • Yeah compared to the last year of killer they've released, The Twins are just underwhelming. Conceptually they are fantastic, but the numbers are waaaay off. If they don't change them again before release, I dont think I'll be buying this one.

    Also, I gotta say you've got an In-depth analysis here, I love it. The cooldown of switching between them is like plague after she vomits, but way, WAY worse. it just feels so sluggish. Thats my main problem with this killer, they just feel so punishing and sluggish to play. And the contrast of Victors speed and mobility makes the sluggishness even worse. The entire time it feels like your being slapped in the face repeatedly just for picking and playing them.

  • Demogordon_RamsayDemogordon_Ramsay Member Posts: 1,503
    edited November 2020

    There are a lot of Killers that feel like this for me. Legion, Plague, Wraith, Myers—it feels as if their power punishes them more than helps them by making them unreasonably slow and, for three of these four, requiring them to EARN it even if it's not nearly a good enough ability to necessitate earning. It feels like Survivors get to determine whether or not the Killer's power does something more than the Killer does.

    And that scares me, because all of these Killers have been in the game for, at minimum, nearly 2 years, some as long as 4 or more, and nothing substantial has been done about any of them. I'm really hoping the Twins don't suffer this same fate.

  • Yepp, I'm really afraid that their just gonna keep these current changes they announced, and just leave them. Thats worse case scenario though. I'm hopeful that with all this feedback and how early they announced the changes, that they'll actually listen and buff 'em just a lil more. The concept of the killer is great, but the execution is poor.

  • NoxeriasNoxerias Member Posts: 93

    That's what I'm afraid of too. I really like the concept of this killer but with how things are currently looking, this chapter isn't worth our money till they buff the Twins in a meaningful way as @Demogordon_Ramsay posted, but knowing the Devs we'll get a killer that's only meant to be fun for survivors and this killer will be left in the gutter like Clown, Demogorgon, and Plague.

  • dugmandugman Member Posts: 5,922

    Fixing the lockers is critical, I simply won’t buy the Twins until that’s fixed and the notes say it’s not being fixed at release. I’ll wait until that fix is actual in the game before getting them.

    The other thing I’m kind of disappointed by thematically is that even with the change survivors can still run around completely normally with Victor on their head, including vaulting and dropping pallets. “I know I have a rabid monster gnawing at my face but I’m still going to do the parkour slide over this pallet and bandage someone.” It’s just thematically really dumb. It honestly feels like while Victor is on the survivors head they should only be able to run, not vault, and attempt to pull off themselves. At the very least they should maybe suffer a Deep Wound if he’s on their head too long.

    I’ll reserve judgment on how good or bad the Twins are until the release version comes out. So far though I’m not that excited by them because of some of the details in how they function. In principle the idea of playing two killers is interesting, but in practice some of the details are putting me off them a bit.

  • The notes are pretty unclear, it could just be the animation that is missing, and that the mechanic will work, but with no animation (A la mending without actually touching the person) Or, maybe it will just be completely missing, making The Twins much less than useless.

    I agree with everything your saying, I'm hoping that by release they'll be in a much better spot, but the fact that LOCKERS were just completely forgotten about during the design process of this killer is a really, really bad sign. How could they not spot that during play testing?

  • dugmandugman Member Posts: 5,922

    During the PTB, Survivors realized that they can jump in a locker to avoid Victor since he is unable to search lockers. To prevent this, we’ll be giving Victor a unique interaction with lockers. This will take some animation work, however, so this will not be ready for the initial release.

    Sounds pretty clear to me, this change won’t be ready for initial release.

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