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Moris and Keys should be removed

TangledNoodlesTangledNoodles Member Posts: 227
edited November 2020 in Feedback and Suggestions

I mainly play survivor and quite frankly i don't care for keys, I don't care what changes happen to them they could be gone for all I care. On the other hand moris are the killer's equivalent of a key. They're both cheap imo.

Tbh I believe it would be better if they just remove both of them altogether because quite frankly I don't have high hopes for whatever changes they have planned.

Obviously they're not getting removed but I wanna hear other people's opinions.

Post edited by MandyTalk on
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Comments

  • ZaytexZaytex Member Posts: 836

    I agree, they should be removed since they're unhealthy for the game, but I doubt the developers would do it with the money and effort they put into it, especially for the kill animations.

    A change for them would be the most likely outcome, which should be something like:


    Keys: Only allows the holder to escape. Opening the hatch now has an animation of 2-3 seconds, which can be interrupted by the Killer hitting you, so you can't just escape in his face.


    Mori's: Only become usable once every survivor has been hooked at least once. Removes the aspect of tunnelling with a mori and gives the survivors a chance to get out.

    Ideas by Otzdarva, probably the best we could get.

  • bjorksnasbjorksnas Member Posts: 4,244

    no

    I don't see moris enough for them to have ever been a problem

    and keys shouldn't be able to be found in chests and leave the hatch open behind them

  • TangledNoodlesTangledNoodles Member Posts: 227

    The same thing could be said about keys, I don't see a lot of people using them often. I have a bunch of them because I never use them so they just sit there.

  • EmealEmeal Member Posts: 1,436

    Moris are never fun for Survivors, Keys is only really an issue with the 4th Survivor.

    I think Moris should go to ensure the quality of the Survivor experience.

  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 5,229
    edited November 2020

    I dunno dude, they've been practically every third or fourth game for me the past few days.

    Also there is no real argument for having them beyond personal preference, because they do absolutely give an unfair advantage. That's not something even debatable; you shouldn't be able to take something into a game that gives you THAT much of an advantage in any online versus game.

  • The_Bootie_GorgonThe_Bootie_Gorgon Member Posts: 2,340

    Pig should be nerfed

  • dezzmontdezzmont Member Posts: 481

    I don't think either needs to be removed but they need to be SERIOUSLY toned down.

    Key probably should be a 'One survivor only' mechanic. You can't pop the whole team out.

    Ortz's idea for Moris is that they should require everyone to be off their first hook state. This isn't a terrible idea, as it helps remove the 'tunnel down' aspect but still allows killers to get a HUGE swing in pressure if they play very well. Might make survivors think twice about being super casual about trading spots on the hook too.

  • ZFennecFoxZFennecFox Member Posts: 510

    Honestly I feel like there both not that big of a deal but if were bringing this up. Make all Mori's hook state based last hook Killer can Mori its simple. Key's just give them a hatch opening animation about the same time as searching a chest. Make pink key's halve the time but reveal their aura to the Killer when in a certain distance to the hatch. Well that's my idea any way.

  • MrPenguinMrPenguin Member Posts: 1,476

    Yes.

    Completely agree. Not much else to say. Throw them in the campfire and watch them burn.

    I would only consider leaving yellow mori and broken key. I would prefer yellow mori base-kit though.

  • MikaKimMikaKim Member Posts: 328

    The reason you don't care for keys is because they impact the game far less than mori's do. I'm happy if they remove keys, but note that the killer community would just find something else to whine about.

  • MikaKimMikaKim Member Posts: 328

    HAHAHAHAHAHA.

    • Yes, get rid of them.....
    • Well nerf them.....
    • Can we get rid of one but not the other?

    All within a few sentences too. Thanks for the laugh.

  • MikaKimMikaKim Member Posts: 328

    Very rare for this forum to have good ideas.

    Thanks for sharing. Have an updoot!

  • MrPenguinMrPenguin Member Posts: 1,476
    edited November 2020

    Umm ok, I'd be fine with getting rid of them. Don't know where I said nerf them, and yellow mori is just an animation on a survivor that's already dead so what's the problem?

  • MikaKimMikaKim Member Posts: 328

    I took your word salad and put it into simplified bullet points.

  • MrPenguinMrPenguin Member Posts: 1,476
    edited November 2020

    No you took what I said and twisted it. Big difference. Also didn't point this out earlier, I never said to "remove one but no the other" I specifically pointed out broken keys and yellow mori's, both of which are versions of the stronger variants without the problem points.

    Post edited by MrPenguin on
  • EmealEmeal Member Posts: 1,436

    keys cannot be abused to have as much game impact on killers and moris has on a survivor.

  • MrPenguinMrPenguin Member Posts: 1,476
    edited November 2020

    if you want bullet points here you go:

    • Yes remove them I agree
    • If you don't wan to remove them completely the green key and yellow mori aren't problems
    • I would prefer yellow mori base kit however over keeping it. For more details, I would prefer not to waste an offering slot for just an animation at the end of the match on an already dead survivor.

    At least understand what you're reading before you throw out such bold responses. If you thought that was "word salad" you need to work on your reading comprehension.

  • MikaKimMikaKim Member Posts: 328

    Well aside from being triggered you managed to clarify yourself. Sort of...

    • I agree
    • If you
    • I would

    Read those back for starters.

    But congratulations on figuring out how post editing works, you won the internet today.

  • ClyxxyClyxxy Member Posts: 12

    keep the aspect of aura reading with keys in the form of another item. And just completely change Moris to something else

  • Looping4DayzLooping4Dayz Member Posts: 10

    I think ebony moris should be removed but single moris should stay. However for a killer to mori a survivor they have to have hooked each survivor at least once. I also believe that moris should never effect survivor rank negatively. Keys should not be something that you can bring into a trial with you but instead up to one chest in each trial can spawn a key so if survivors want a key they have to waste gen time to find one.

  • AChaoticKillerAChaoticKiller Member Posts: 3,104

    keys can be reworked to be balanced when opening the hatch all it needs is time to open the hatch and a way for the killer to find the person opening it. check out my rework for it and tell me if that is a lot more fair then how currently keys are.

    https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/208357/my-full-key-rework-idea-what-do-you-guys-think-of-it#latest

    As for mori's because they are a offering and with the way they work its a lot harder to come up with a rework for them, honestly all i can think of is applying restrictions to mori's that would make it so you can't kill survivors off first hook.

  • TheMonadoBoiTheMonadoBoi Member Posts: 343
    edited November 2020

    Moris unfairly and prematurely end the game for one side. Keys unfairly and prematurely end the game for one side. But sure, keys are definitely fine, not an issue, can't change the entire game in a second.

    ONLY three gens need to be done before HALF the survivor team can escape. If the last survivor has a key, that's it. Absolutely nothing the killer can do. If you close it, they open it. If you stay near it, they open gates, if you patrol gates, they open hatch.

    Post edited by Rizzo90 on
  • TangledNoodlesTangledNoodles Member Posts: 227
    edited November 2020

    You have to realize that that is not a scenario that happens often unless it's swf. Trying to get someone to follow you to the hatch or show it to them without being able to talk and relying on an emote is not that easy lol.

    Quite frankly I don't see many crazy solo key plays, usually they die or escape alone. On the other hand, I see a lot of killers tunnel someone down just to get them out of the game right away, and lets be real a 3 v 1 is not fun. When I'm playing killer I don't want an easy game because it gets boring real quick, same when I'm playing survivor.

    But I realize that there's some people out there that only care about 'winning' aka 4k or escaping, not matter what. It's funny when a killer say to me "Haha I win you lose, you died" and my response is.. ok? lol.

    People need to realize that there's more to this game than escaping or killing, you have to enjoy the process. If you focus too much on killing/surviving you're gonna get too heated and it will ruin your experience. Unless being a sweaty try hard gets you off, then you do you lol.

    Post edited by Rizzo90 on
  • MrPenguinMrPenguin Member Posts: 1,476
    edited November 2020

    I'm not triggered, you just can't read well. Its not clear what you're trying to say with those points. I read them back... Ok? What about them. Also don't know why you're bringing in post editing either. Nothing you responded to has been edited after you responded. Even if it was, the original would appear in your quote.

    Post edited by MrPenguin on
  • bjorksnasbjorksnas Member Posts: 4,244

    honestly I see more keys then I do moris but usually if there is a mori there is a good chance there was a survivor with a key that provoked it

  • bjorksnasbjorksnas Member Posts: 4,244

    this isn't an online vs game though it was designed to be asymmetrical horror without ever being truly balanced in mind, the moris and keys to an extent are the ideals the game was made around not became

  • dezzmontdezzmont Member Posts: 481
    edited November 2020

    Ok so some people don't seem to get the issue with keys. So lets break it down.

    Both Moris and Keys totally change the end objective for both sides in a major way that totally flips the time scale the game is balanced around.

    However, in most ways keys are WORSE than a Mori. That is right, I said it. Keys are worse designs than current Moris.

    See, a key in a SWF lobby with a good team just guarentees the killer won't pip unless they focus down the key holder, and even then someone else can just nab it. The entire game goes from being about map pressure for the killer to this nonsense of keeping away the keys. The killer has almost no power to negotiate that outcome besides preventing the survivors from doing ANY gens. Getting 3 gens done isn't hard, and two survivors just bouncing from the game is pretty crushing.

    Moris may be more 'dramatic' but its often the case in games for the more subtle option to be better. This is what game designers call 'invisible power.' A mori just removes 1 hook state from survivors. This is still HUGE and a crazy tempo swing as losing two chases becomes a death state instead of 3, but the killer still needs to find survivors and win chases, and you can do things like rotate the runners on your team in SWF. Its bonkers busted, but there is counterplay that there isn't really for keys.

    Don't get me wrong, this isn't me saying 'Moris should stay as they are, its the keys that are the problem.' It is just that keys SUCK TO PLAY AGAINST. They are awful, the game warps to this nightmarishly awful thing on a level beyond playing vs Moris. At least moris have a 'positive tension' thing going on where suddenly the stakes of the chase are way higher, while with keys the stakes of chases are kinda the same its just the value of your time that warps and requires you to basically run the game in a way that doesn't really work in high level play. The main point of agitation about Moris that isn't there for keys is player elimination, but player elimination is a key mechanic of DBD and without it we would be full Deathgarden, and no one wants that.

    Vs a Mori, a good player or group can still win. Solos can still hatch. Survivors still have POWER vs a Mori. Killers lack that. Which is why killers DESPISE keys. A lot of the 'things killers complain about' are feeling helpless in scenarios where they have perfectly analyzed the situation but can't 'force through' a survivor's transparent plans: It isn't about losing interactions, its about having no ways to win interactions. Keys are the worst offender here.

  • megswifeymegswifey Member Posts: 815

    I only use the key to track survivors, but one time mid chase with doctor i found the hatch and dipped with two teammates dead and last one struggling. I was on death hook and I felt so bad, but I also felt like such a gamer lol. But yeah, I think it's more fun to work for your sacrifices or escape, because doing no gens and having a key makes a match way less fun!

  • FlatskullFlatskull Member Posts: 332
    edited November 2020


    In order for keys or moris to see realistic changes that won't make the game more empty than it already is. We would need to see big mechanic updates and item additions and changes to what on the maps.


    Ideally killers should be rewarded moris for doing their jobs and doing certain things since killers want to actually be the power role and being able to be an actual slasher and not hook boi for daddy spider satan is one of the small ways this is achieved. But the game is so empty that there isn't many ways you can implement mechanically that dosen't neuter it entirely.


    Not unless you get rid of all moris and just let killers mori on third hook after everyone been hooked once as base kit. Which would reward killers for playing the long game and focus on getting everyone hooked for the kill so it would shift them from tunneling-as much-


    Keys main issue is the same as all items. They can be found on the blood web which makes them not that special to survivors-so they're pretty expendable at their core- and there's no awe in them. Keys also don't really do anything interesting, just allow them to shorten the game or get hatch.


    In an ideal DBD: keys could only be found in a either a very dangerous area for a survivor to be in maps. Maybe even in a place with enviromental hazards and the killer has the advantage. And have more interesting effects than it does now. Like, it could be used to turn on certain things in each map.


    In terms of what key is: it's at best a tool to annoy the killer and get hatch points. It's essentially a bail out item from the match early. Which seems like an odd thing to put in your game. I get the feeling the key and mori was put in at a time the design where there were a lot more intended offerings and item choices that could blatantly make the game unfair for either side.


    but right now it's just blood points and offerings no killer would ever touch so they end up stacking up moris to use-so they get annoying for survivors- and for survivors if they farm BP and even try to go after chests they'll get all the items types you can get and end up farming keys pretty quickly- which is annoying for killers-

  • MikaKimMikaKim Member Posts: 328

    HAHAHA

    You're hilarious

    Your original post agreed with OP, then went on to counter some of what they said then finished with an entirely different point.

    When I pointed that out to you, you replied with a bunch of posts explaining yourself and then did a weird pivot saying I didn't understand.

    But even then you made reference to 'others' like that others were talking about your ideas. Which just gets back to my original post, that you initially contradicted yourself.

    But, after a few more posts and scouring the internet you'll probably be able to flex again and say I didn't understand.

    In the meantime, thanks for the laugh.

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