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Undying nerf without sacrificing its utility

wisdomwielderwisdomwielder Member Posts: 327
edited December 2020 in Feedback and Suggestions

Simply give survivors a perk notification when they are within range of it's aura reading. (Like Leader)

This would undoubtedly make totems easier to find, but the trade-off is fair since it may just end being the wrong totem. This may also cause a new discordance situation (wherein the first tier of the perk is better than tier three since it has shorter aura reading range, so something may need to be done about that, or you could just possibly make the notification a fixed distance)

Overall I think having this small downside is a fair trade since the perk is so powerful. Yeah, you might lose totems faster but the perk is still doing its job. And this could even create some additional synergy with haunted grounds.

As a killer main, I'd be okay with this change.

Post edited by Rizzo on

Comments

  • wisdomwielderwisdomwielder Member Posts: 327

    You don't think I know what the situation is? Doesn't mean we can't discuss other things on here.

  • Unseen_ForceUnseen_Force Member Posts: 218

    Giving survivors a notification when they are within its aura reading would make undying useless

  • TerroTerro Member Posts: 1,171

    Eh, I don't think that matters too much. Personally as a survivor main I don't think I'd even care about a nerf like that. 2m is such a short distance that it's super rare that a survivor doesn't see the totem if they're that close. At the same time, you should be keeping an eye out for the killer regardless of if you know they have undying or not and assume the killer might be coming. What difference does it make if you as a survivor know that the killer knows that you're there? I think they should just remove the reveal for x seconds and only reveal a survivor if they're within 2m of a totem.

  • Warcrafter4Warcrafter4 Member Posts: 2,917

    Undying doesn't need a nerf its the only viable hex defence perk in the game and I am really getting tired of having to say this every thread.

    Undying has shown the power level needed for hex defence perks to be played.

    Once again I ask this:

    When was the last time Thrill of the Hunt or Retribution had any noticeable impact on your games?

    If you can't remember then lets buff Thrill of the Hunt and Retribution instead of nerfing Undying.

  • wisdomwielderwisdomwielder Member Posts: 327

    How? You still get aura reading. You still get totem reset. You still get people doing totems instead of gens.

  • wisdomwielderwisdomwielder Member Posts: 327

    You can't deny that Undying is insanely oppressive when paired with Ruin compared to other regression perks. I almost never lose a game when I run this perk combo. Its like running DS/Unbreakable.

  • Warcrafter4Warcrafter4 Member Posts: 2,917

    Unlike DS/Unbreakable it can be destroyed in the first 30 seconds of the game and heavily nerf the killer by removing HALF of their perks from the game all the while requiring high pressure from the killer for it to even do anything.

    Trust me I have tried that combo on blight and had that happen...Repeatedly before I could have even reach them to stop the totems from breaking even with the aura reveal.

    Its not OP it just forces survivors to treat totems as a secondary objective like they were intended to be while also rewarding skillful play from the killer.

  • TerroTerro Member Posts: 1,171

    I don't think undying + ruin is all that oppressive, especially at Red ranks. It's definitely a problem for bad teams of survivors aka solo queue, since it makes it extremely difficult for a good survivor to carry the bad survivors. A full team of bad survivors has no chance. The problem is matchmaking and how there's so many potato red ranks. I'd say do minor tweaks at most like my suggestion but fix matchmaking first before making big changes. I'm still hoping MMR comes out and it works well.

  • MrPeterPFLMrPeterPFL Member Posts: 636

    The Devs has stated that they have no intentions for nerfing Undying and Ruin, however they’ve notice a lot of killers are using this perk combo a lot. If it comes to point where a vast amount of Killers are only using Undying and Ruin they will have to look into it. They said they won’t nerf Ruin because they’ve collected enough data to know it’s in a good spot, they will however nerf Undying, but that’s IF a lot of killers use Undying and Ruin.

  • JackTheMimicJackTheMimic Member Posts: 59

    Look, just use distortion, inner strength, detectives hunch or small game and stop griping. I put this combo on with a random 4th perk and I get ruin down before I run out of tokens. Two people on your team with distortion makes it impossible for the killer to even know you started cleansing before it's too late. There are counters to things you just have to find them.

  • valvarez4valvarez4 Member Posts: 868

    Remove the aura reading part and give it to , or reduce the time to cleanse totems to 10 secs.

  • FrekiFreki Member Posts: 1,903

    there IS a perk that would do this, it's called distortion. introduced with Jeff and Legion! problem solved, no nerf needed.

  • FrekiFreki Member Posts: 1,903

    very true yet why haven't the devs thought about looking at unbreakable and DS? I mean these two perks are used a great deal in matches in the top 10 ranks, in the lower 10 ranks it's getting more and more common too!

  • xEcoLog1cDuk3XxxEcoLog1cDuk3Xx Member Posts: 441

    You need the game to hold your hand as a survivor even more???

    That system is very flawed and not a bad idea on paper but is poorly implemented by the devs. Here's a good example of a perk that does this. (This is just 1 of many examples)

    Hex: Devour Hope literally tells you "Hey, I'm a threat now. Just wanted to let you know" when a 3 killer reaches 3 stacks for instadowns. Even though you down a survivor with Billy/Bubba Chainsaw, Huntress Hatchets, Demogorgon Shred attacks and Pyramid Head's Punishment of the Damned and other power based Special Attacks.

  • valvarez4valvarez4 Member Posts: 868

    It could be if the devs rework it. 3 tokens was barely ok when undying didn't exist, but not it's not near usable.

  • ALostPuppyALostPuppy Member Posts: 3,398

    Or remove the aura reading entirely because it's entirely unnecessary? That's the only need it needs, the aura reading on top of the already super strong effect is stupid. If you want to defend your totems run Thrill.

  • FrekiFreki Member Posts: 1,903

    wow... you want everything to counter all killer stuff too... GREAT let's get the killer's everything to counter all the survivor stuff.... keep the playing field even. I gave you a solution that someone else ALSO gave you. but no you can't accept that there are counters to what you're asking about great way to be! the other person also gave pointers as well yet you didn't reply to them about distortion. Just learn the game, learn the add ons and go from there...

    oh yes... thrill will defend the totems perfectly.... oh yea that's great let's remove aura reading from undying..... how about removing survivor aura reading from object of obsession? lets make it EASIER for the killer to know where you are but you won't know it. enjoy your games then!

  • ALostPuppyALostPuppy Member Posts: 3,398

    Um yeah it will defend totems, it takes longer to break and you get a notification from it. So taking Thrill will help keep your totems alive but you'd sacrifice tinkerer. You'd have a weaker combo but it would still be good.

    And object lighting up when you're looking in the killer's direction instead of giving you the aura is actually a good idea for a nerf to the perk.

    Hey you're really good at suggesting changes! You're right, I would enjoy my survivor AND killer games more with these ideas!

  • xEcoLog1cDuk3XxxEcoLog1cDuk3Xx Member Posts: 441

    That response is basically saying remove the 5 second stun from DS. Killer's have to respect every Survivor that's downed after being unhooked, not many killers get stunned from the perk anyways because they wait out the 60 seconds or slug. (Can't imagine myself playing the one side that isn't unique or interesting)

  • FrekiFreki Member Posts: 1,903

    1) it does not protect totems in the same way as thrill does. and where did sacrificing tinkerer come form I didn't even mention it??? I'm confused

    2) I didn't even want it to LIGHT UP or for it to stay lit up the whole time. I was giving you a version of what you are ASKING for from the killer side. so you want undying to not give an aura thus not have to use distortion, det. hunch, a pink map etc I say we make Object not show any indication what so ever to the survivor.


    learn to adapt, stop complaining and move on.

  • ALostPuppyALostPuppy Member Posts: 3,398

    I mentioned tinkerer because that's what everyone and their mother runs with ruin and undying and BBQ. You'd be sacrificing a perk slot to keep your totems safe (if, theoretically, undying didn't already help you with that...), so you'd probably get rid of tinkerer in your build.

  • TodgeweihtTodgeweiht Member Posts: 3,666
    edited December 2020

    Literally yesterday. I played a totem meme build with Retribution - Haunted Grounds - Ruin - Devour as add-on less deathslinger. I managed to get 3 downs just with the retribution and haunted grounds combo

  • CosmicParagonCosmicParagon Member Posts: 1,004

    I would be in favor of that, IF it is consistent about all aura reading. Don't tell players what perk is affecting them, but let them know, Killer OR Survivor, that somebody is watching. That way players know that they are having their aura read, but need to use the context of where they are and what they're doing to figure out what perk is affecting them

  • FrekiFreki Member Posts: 1,903

    nah, i'll keep undying instead of thrill, it's in a good spot.

  • wisdomwielderwisdomwielder Member Posts: 327

    You wrongly assume I am some kind of helpless survivor main. I've played killer for well over 4k hours, and when I run this perk combo, I almost never lose a game. It is becoming as prolific as ds/unbreakable, and will become moreso as more and more people gain access to Undying. It's too good not to run for many people, and it's ability to suppress gens rivals old Ruin.

    Of course there are perks that counter totem builds, but you can't predict the killer will use one in the lobby. That's like trying to predict if a survivor will bring Object and you have to bring the appropriate counter of you have it. Not everyone has a survivor team that they can delegate certain perks or roles to. A solo queue survivor shouldn't have to redo their build in order to counter one perk the killer MAY or MAY NOT bring. (i.e. lockers didn't use to counter BBQ and now they do. They are a natural counter to many killer perks and powers)

    Your Devour Hope example actually works in my favor. That is an extremely powerful perk, but has the downside of giving survivors knowledge of it's existence at some point. Of course, you can always make assumptions and predictions about what perks are in play based on context clues, but a solid yes/no answer is always more impactful or helpful.

    AS A LEGACY KILLER MAIN, I believe Undying is too powerful and deserves to give survivors more of a fair shot at countering it. Giving a small notification when a survivor is nearby a totem is a fair nerf to me.

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