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The Nightmare Should Be Used As A Reference For Changing Other Killers

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  • ZenithZXZenithZX Member Posts: 34

    Just make it easier to wake up then he loses most of his tools; that's the simplest way to balance him.

  • BardBard Member Posts: 657

    The things Freddy can do are totally reasonable.

    The problem is that not only does it take no thought to do, the devs actively impede Freddy players from making larger plans for their power by hiding key information about his own power (sleep timers and the auras of snares).

  • BardBard Member Posts: 657
    1. On a 45 second CD, and you can only use it to go directly next to gens so it's not applicable in chase 95% of the time.
    2. If the survivor just stays at the loop, then yeah. Also, no. You don't get Bloodlust, they explicitly removed his ability to do that.
    3. Yes and no. If you ######### up and let Freddy hit you before the save, he ignores BT. If you manage to get past him and unhook while awake, BT causes the unhooked survivor to be "unsleepable".
    4. We're talking, at the very most, a 12% action speed slow. For a purple and a green add-on. Less than old Thana, an effect so small that the annoyance of a red action bar did more to help you than the action slow did.
    5. He's not a stealth killer. He has a red stain, a 32 meter terror radius, and a 32 meter lullaby. Asleep or no, unless you're oblivious IRL, you're given ample warning of his presence.

    Freddy isn't OP in the slightest.

    He's just really easy, and most survivors are just really bad.

  • bredbeddlebredbeddle Member Posts: 103

    I suppose that this is just semantics, but wouldn't that be a high skill floor, and not a low one? As someone who isn't particularly familiar with the terminology of "skill floor/skill ceiling" this is a genuine question

  • TotemsCleanserTotemsCleanser Member Posts: 617
    edited December 2020

    XD

    Literally everyone in this thread has proved you wrong, even killer mains, and you're still repeating the same entitled survivors nonsense. Cry me a river, pal. Freddy is getting nerfed no matter how much you whine.

  • PsychobeastzPsychobeastz Member Posts: 164

    Apologies for the troll comments I posted, to answer your question what exactly your looking for in other killers?

    The devs if I am not mistaken have mentioned they are tuning him down a bit (so far no issues with that unless people want freddy currently the way he is???). I do think other killers need to be adjusted to be more fun and have no huge drawbacks (wraith, trapper etc my opinion mind you). I cannot agree with freddy being used as a reference. Quite a decent amount of people have already commented it, so I have no intention of debating whatsoever.

    I will say that there is a reason people do not like playing against him, not because he is op. My opinion on why the devs are tuning him is because this is a majority of what people want (solo queues, new players, people like me who think he has too much in his base kit). Let's just hope its not something major as what they did with billy.

  • ManInaPickleManInaPickle Member Posts: 36

    All the freddy rework did was take a fun to play killer who made you think a bit to play right(spoilers, it wasn't just putting one guy to sleep and tunneling him) and turned him into a boring brain dead killer who can just spam pools to get kills then have the game set up your teleports for you with it being directly to a generator for some reason.

  • mike1288mccarthymike1288mccarthy Member Posts: 78

    Freddy is definitely not op I've been playing this game 2 years and Freddy is one the only of the few killers that has counterplay if you're awake his power is useless, when he teleports to a gen you know he's teleporting, outside remember me and blood warden and stares in front of the door he has no endgame pressure. yes freddy is one of the strongest killers but he's only strong when there's gens. Every survivor can complain he is no fun to play against but as a survivor main myself who mains Freddy everyone is wrong. Yeah you're objective is to do gens but guess what you can do 5 gens you still only get a max of 8k BP. Could Freddy use a few tweaks yes he does but nerfing him isn't the answer. Feedback is great but people who play the game have no idea how to balance the game.

  • ZozzyZozzy Member Posts: 4,491

    They made bubba weaker by removing his insta saw imo.

  • Mak0Mak0 Member Posts: 250

    So you’re not interested in actually making the game better and you just want another survivors vs killers thread. Gotcha

  • cannonballBcannonballB Member Posts: 320

    I don't understand why these things are bad things? Killers need to slow you down, both slow gen repair and try to hook you to kill you. Am I missing something?

    I wasnt aware that it was the killers job to let you speed through gens? Am I missing something?

    And freddy's snares/traps don't work if you're awake. Go wake yourself up. It's not hard.

  • FrostySealFrostySeal Member Posts: 505
    edited December 2020

    Having natural slowdown isn't a bad thing, I literally never said it was, infact it think its necessary against even half decent teams. The problem is along with natural slowdown, Freddy has a TON of other abilities and a super easy skill cap. No other killer in the game has as much tools as he does, and even if they are stronger than him they all take a considerable amount of effort to get good as. Deathslinger, you'll have to practice your shots constantly and learn what you can shoot through, Blight, you'll have to know what objects you can and can't bounce off along with knowing how far you can hit and from what angles you can hit from, etc. Its undeniable that Freddy is super easy, and while having a easy killer isn't a bad thing giving them incredibly powerful tools is. Imagine if nurse had 4 blinks base kit or Billy had instasaw and doom engravings base kit.


    I am not going to repeat myself on waking up isn't a full counter against Freddy. It'll work maybe once or twice but then it starts being a waste of time, plus you fall asleep pretty quickly and sometimes taking a hit is inevitable.

  • hillbillyclaudmain69hillbillyclaudmain69 Member Posts: 1,528

    Thats exactly what i meant. Thank you. Playing a strong character should always be difficult.

  • Devil_hit11Devil_hit11 Member Posts: 1,573

    If they're your friends and they knew you were playing Freddy on... Haddonfield, first of all they can run OoO which... is permanent wallhack on like one biggest maps in the game, like how do you even lose. Beyond that, if you know your on haddonfield, balance landing is huge cheese perk on the map in general. Sounds a bit of a phony story. Even than, I find it doubtful that they're "The best survivors on Xbox" and if that is the best, than that's pretty low standard.

    Haddonfield is just an insane map for good survivors. it just has so many insane loops, like often on side houses, you can get windowed opened on 2nd floor where you can literally just watch a killer walk up the stairs into a drop down, than there's classic house of pain which can have insane window spawns with an amazing pallet, than there is sometimes crazy fence loops, loops around the house with pallets you can pre-drop ahead of the killer and loop around the house till killer gets like bloodlust 1 or 2 only to drop the garage pallet to instantly reset bloodlust. Most of the filler outside pallets unsafe besides middle street pallets. Haddonfield is paradise map for survivors. its the map that i see the most 3 and 4 man escapes on even on soloq, the last time i remember ever losing(Dying) on Haddonfield was when i was facing double iri add-on Spirit with Ebony mori. Freddy snares won't be doing much on that map and if they respect your freddy, they'll just stay even though haddonfield can probably beaten while being asleep entire time.

    Freddy is good on maps that inherently have weaker loops like hawkins,dead dawg saloon, midwich, arguably shelter woods due to low pallet count. he can reliably dominate on these maps vs good teams. maps like those were balanced for normal killers as those maps either have unsafe loops or fair loops but freddy snare's is anti-loop mechanic so whatever is fair becomes unfair in his case as his snares were designed for safe conventional loops. Either way, I would consider most freddy's toolkit a bandaid fix to many bad imbalances to killer such as his generator teleport fixing big map design(for how it hurts their map pressure to walk to each gen), TR being a free alert for survivors to hold W against killers before they even get into a chase that freddy midly masks with his Lullaby, Snares for safe loop design, Add-on's that reward the killer with slower generators for injuring and down survivors quickly and winning chases. His entire kit is like everything that killer players want from a killer. Its for that reason that Freddy can be consider gold standard for a killer. Nothing Freddy's kit is inherently unfair or overturn but yet he has all the tools to succeed so it is somewhat of surprise that they would consider changing him. I guess we will see what changes about him.

  • thesuicidefoxthesuicidefox Member Posts: 8,227


    1) The cooldown is faster when people fall asleep, which happens passively. I literally never feel like I have to wait for my teleport, it's always ready when I need it.

    2) Well they didn't do a very good job because you can still totally get bloodlust while placing snares. It doesn't reset the bloodlust timer it merely pauses it, so if you spend 3 seconds placing a snare you get bloodlust 3 seconds later than normal.

    3) The lengths survivors have to go to avoid being put into DW in order to use BT almost completely negate any benefit from BT. All it takes is for him to hit you, now you can't give BT. That means no hook trading. That means Freddy can camp and ensure you never get BT. It's not at all hard I do this kind of BS all the time if I want to play like a dick.

    4) 12% slowdown is quite a lot. On a gen thats 80/(1-.12) is 90 seconds. You added 10 seconds to the gen JUST from being asleep. Add in another 20% from Thana and now it's 80/((1-.12)*(1-.2) which is 114 seconds to solo a gen. Now add in Pop, every time he gets a hook he can almost definitely get Pop on any gen he wants. That 25%, or base 20 seconds is now 20/((1-.12)*(1-.2) which is 28 seconds. He gets an extra 8 seconds of time off the gen because of how Pop, Thana, and Rope/Chains interact with each other. I regularly win games with no more than 2 gens done, and usually I stop pressuring gens hard after someone dies. Literally not even a contest to stop gens.

    5) He is a stealth killer. If you are awake you can't see him past 32m, and he disappears randomly between 32 and 16m. When you are asleep his lullaby is non-directional and non-range, so you can only tell how far he is by physically seeing him. It is super easy to sneak up on survivors, at least getting close enough so that they cannot run very far once they realize you are there.

    He is quite OP when the killer knows what they are doing and how to exploit all these little mechanics he has to their benefit. He has more tools in his base kit than some killers have with add-ons COMBINED with another killer. It's ridiculous.

  • MichaelAMyersMichaelAMyers Member Posts: 292

    It's always bad survivors Mainers wanting nerfs to killers lol.

  • thesuicidefoxthesuicidefox Member Posts: 8,227

    They didn't know I was their killer.

    And they did run OOO. 2 of them. Normally my build includes Sheep Block for that exact purpose but I switched to a memey build to mess with them. After a few chases and gens it was clear they didn't want to meme even though I offered Haddonfield. So I play for real when the game was more than half over and I got a 2k, could have probably got 3k if I didn't mess up near the end. So yea, if I can make a massive comeback like that on a heavily survivor sided map against REALLY GOOD survivors with OOO then Freddy is probably, just maybe, a tad too strong. As literally any other killer I don't even think I would have got the 2k (which yes was a 1k because I dropped my friend on the hatch but technically it was a 2k because he was dead at this point).

    And yes they are some of the best survivors on Xbox. We played in tournaments together, we've know each other for a while. We all play both sides (one of them is a good killer, the rest are average I'd say). Besides the fact they were in a 4 stack, which gives them even more of an advantage.

    And speaking of tournaments, wanna know which killer out of like 10 games was the only one to get a 4k in a tournament match? Back to back (as in their team got a 4k then our team got a 4k)? Yep, Freddy. Literally every other killer gets completely bodied, you'd be lucky to get a 2k. Freddy on both sides got a 4k, the only 4k's in the entire set of matches between the top 2 teams.

  • Devil_hit11Devil_hit11 Member Posts: 1,573
    edited December 2020

    I think its becoming a bit more apparently how little credibility the post has. I'd imagine a player who "mains" or one tricks freddy would understand his own game mechanics. Bloodlust is instantly reset upon placing a snare. It was apparently a bug in first month of release for Freddy but its been like this ever since. NO BT does not mean that you can't save people from hooks, in fact one of most common strategies to save people from hooks in end game(at least for SWF) is to purposely take a hit to put killer recovery, begin unhooking process while one player blocks the killer from hitting the unhooker, than form a kongo line where injured players go ahead of the group in straight line and uninjured players block in straight line to exit gate. Its super easy to do in SWF vs M1 killers and only the perk STBFL can counter this. Lastly, All slowdown memes have been dractically weakened to obilivion and if freddy in position to get this kind of value, He would won without the perks in the first place because your play is sub optimal. now a days meta freddy builds centered around Undying+Ruin+Tinkerer and those add-on that people use on freddy is because there is nothing really better. Lastly, Tournament team do not mean good, it just means competing for something. Overwatch had a team called Shanghai Dragons that went like 0-40, Tournament team just means competing for something, there is such thing as bad teams.

    Nobody really fears Freddy but everyone knows he had opportunity to win if he plays his cards right and his opponent messes up. It is what balanced killer look like. Billy used to be that.

  • thesuicidefoxthesuicidefox Member Posts: 8,227

    "Bloodlust is instantly reset upon placing a snare."

    It's not you can try it. I literally get Bloodlust while placing a snare sometimes still.

    " in fact one of most common strategies to save people from hooks in end game(at least for SWF) is to purposely take a hit to put killer recovery"

    Yea it's called a trade and it's done to save the guy on the hook from death. The problem is it's kind of a one time thing if the killer is camping, then you'd just end up trading until you are all dead. You need BT in some instances to get out of the trade vacuum. BT doesn't work against Freddy and therefore all you do by saving in his face is trade hooks and lose Benevolence (because he will down the guy right away). Now he has 1 hooked (you) and another slugged (potentially another hook if DS was already used or something). Trust me if I don't want someone to be saved as Freddy I can make sure it doesn't happen. You will both go down.

    "Lastly, All slowdown memes have been dractically weakened to obilivion"

    They haven't actually. They are weaker than before but I can assure you that the slowdown is still real. As any other killer in a normal game, even when I steamroll, at LEAST 3 or 4 gens get done. As Freddy survivors are lucky to finish 2 because I run a rope and Thana, and I have Pop to negate any progress they make easily.

    "Lastly, Tournament team do not mean good, it just means competing for something."

    Spoken like someone that never played a tournament game in their life, for any game.

    "Nobody really fears Freddy but everyone knows he had opportunity to win if he plays his cards right and his opponent messes up. It is what balanced killer look like. Billy used to be that."

    Yet he has the highest kill rate at all ranks AND red ranks by a wide margin since his rework. I think people don't fear him because 1) how he used to be was a joke and they never got over it, and 2) they are too busy worrying about Spirit and Nurse to care about Freddy.

    Also LOL at "only STBFL can beat SWF". Right yes, this one perk is the thing that gets the win against players on comms.

  • Devil_hit11Devil_hit11 Member Posts: 1,573

    If you going to respond, at least try to read my comment properly

    1) There is no where in my comment where i stated that STBFL beats SWF. After re-reading it, the word "this" refers to bodyblocking which i describe can be used to save anyone on a hook without hook trading and without borrow time against non-instant down killers when properly executed. The reason i bring up the perk is because perk allows you to recovery from hits quicker, you will see that it is exponentially harder to save a person from a killer with 8 stacks STBFL than without the perk in the EGC. Saving people from a hook from freddy is no different than what it would be if it was wraith and this becomes a lot easier if you have perks like Adrenaline proc on the hook etc.

    2) It just means your bad at other killers. The amount of generators that gets done is based off skill level of the survivor and how good their coercion & looping skill is. Like all perks, they do help contribute to the win but do not define the win. if your "steamrolling" as you say, than you should be winning quite hard regardless. that being said, Haddonfield is known to be very strong survivor map and if the team is good, surely they could easily handle Freddy blind and "steamrolling" good players on Haddonfield just isn't a thing for a variety of reasons.

    3) Even in professional tournaments such as NHL hockey league, there are star teams and bad teams. I was actually in a local tournament for a different game where i won like 100 dollars but not for DBD. There is always star players that often elevate their team to next level in all competition.

    4) The snares part looks like a bug like many other bugs that come out every patch but I'm unaware irregularity so no comment.

  • ClocksoClockso Member Posts: 853

    Why is OP defending freddy so hard like it’s the last thing in their life? he’s getting changed and it’s been confirmed on the dev stream, 70% kill rate is NOT OK.

  • OniWantsYourMacaroniOniWantsYourMacaroni Member Posts: 5,795

    Why do so many people think that playing survivors is soo easy?

    It really isn't.

    The majority of survivors i see on high ranks pretty much proves that.

    Also,people don't mind strong killers as long as they are interactive (e.g Blight,Oni,Huntress etc.)

  • ShirokinukatsukamiShirokinukatsukami Member Posts: 1,624

    Strong disagree with the OP. Freddy is not a balanced killer, he is overtuned. He is good at all the important points for a killer: chase, mobility, map presence and gen disruption. He has a bloated kit. That's why is doing so well.

  • ShirokinukatsukamiShirokinukatsukami Member Posts: 1,624

    And there are casuals on the survivor side who don't genrush and don't play SWF at all, and map design has been fixed and reiterated over and over to remove all the broken god loops.

    You say casual killer players without thousands of hours should be given the tools to compete with the cream of the crop survivor players with thousands of hours of play time. But you should be comparing them to casual survivors as well.

  • DamarusDamarus Member Posts: 568

    Balanced, huh? Yeah, no. As much as the old Freddy was there just because they liked the license, this one can do far too much. Teleporting is ok to me, but the rest needs some work. Freddy players can just mindlessly spam their skill without even worrying about it being strategical. 10 fake pallets mean you can cover the whole map, for instance. Snares require A BIT of thinking, but, 10 are still too spam friendly. And it's not even like you can remove them without activating them, so. Not to mention Freddy's hitbox has been broken since release. Can't remember how many times I was hit by a Freddy who lunged in front of him, while I was behind him. Have you ever played R6S? If so, you must know about Maverick, an operator who still doesn't have a true and proper counter a couple years after his release4. Freddy is like that, as there is no counter for a Freddy who tunnels you (and let's be honest, every single killer player will tunnel the s**t out of you when he spots you).

  • TheButcherTheButcher Member Posts: 871

    A Killer should have a kit that allows them to use all the skills that comes with Killer, just like how Survivors are built to be able to perform with all skills that comes with Survivor. The Killers that don't have map pressure, chase/anit-loop abilities, and the ability to distract Survivors from their main objective are far too weak, and need to be buffed to this standard.

  • ElenaElena Member Posts: 2,188

    Why are you so passive aggressive in half of your replies? lmao

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