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DS + unbreakable is not equal to ruin + undying

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  • YordsYords Member Posts: 5,771

    Do you mean you run the small pp build all the time? It seems you are using ruin + undying users as an excuse for it. But hey, I can't tell you how to play. It just seems a bit weird how you say we only run DS + unbreakable against killers who use ruin + undying when you don't even know if they are using it.

  • Cable2486Cable2486 Member Posts: 249

    That's kind of the whole point though, isn't it? If you're going to give something that's meant to protect totems, then it kind of has to be strong. Consensus amongst most killer mains has been that, despite their obvious power, most hex perks being broken right away has been a problem since their inception.

    A huge part of the issue is that while a lot of hex perks compare with a lot of say exhaustion perks, The biggest difference is that most exhaustion perks can be used over and over; hex perks can't. Until now, there's been no way to renew them. That means that there's been a boring strategy in the purple and red ranks that essentially says: Rush the gens, send two people to doors, send two people to find lit totems. It was a simple rinse and repeat the entire match.

    With gen speeds being as bad as they been for as long as they have been, Undying has finally provided a balance to the issue by forcing an unspoken second objective. It also allows most of the experts to actually be usable. Just be glad it doesn't work with all hexes, or life would be much worse.

    can you imagine undying having synergy with either retribution or haunted ground? It'd be merciless. I played both sides though admittedly, I am a priority killer main. But I played a survivor match the other night with a friend against a Freddy Who was running third seal, undying, Make your choice, and pop, paired with his jump rope add-on and fake pallets. It was a freaking nightmare.

  • Kbot22Kbot22 Member Posts: 96

    Ds/unbreakable also has the risk that you'll never get to use it. I stopped running ds because I legitimately get use out of it like 1 out of 100 games. Killers don't pick up ds if they're good and you don't need ds if killers are bad. Ruin undying is insanely strong and feels awful as survivor. Either you spend like 3 gens worth of time trying to break totems or risk having your gen time completely reset (gens are the most boring thing in game). I've once gotten my gen reset from 90+ percent 3-4 times in a match while my team dies. With 4 gens left.

  • thisisntmaxthisisntmax Member Posts: 231

    I don't need to know. Most killers I know use it, if not pop corrupt, but the perks still give value regardless, especially if at end game they have NOED. It's funny how running these perks is small pp but I guess undying ruin tinkerer is huge pp, right?

  • C3ToothC3Tooth Member Posts: 5,108

    Thrill gives noti on Hex totems.

    My opinion, Undying gives aura only on dull totems.

    This would give a choice between Thrill & Undying.

  • sulaimansulaiman Member Posts: 2,684

    Can you name any survivor perk that has only a use in conjunction with another perk? Because thats what you want to create, a perk that does nothing on itself, and only works in conjunction with another perk, while both perks can be countered.

  • immortalls96immortalls96 Member Posts: 4,652

    The real difference is..ruin/undying has a ton of counterplay and risk..ds unbreakable does not

  • immortalls96immortalls96 Member Posts: 4,652

    Hardly Equal..one requires effort and has massive risk/counterplay..the other lacks both

  • immortalls96immortalls96 Member Posts: 4,652

    Its a hex...I think you dont understand what that implies

  • YordsYords Member Posts: 5,771

    Yeah, ruin + undying can feel pretty oppressive and there's not much we can do about it. The thing is that it is very RNG reliant to be really good. It is either really good or okay for the killer and they have to pressure survivors correctly to get full usage out of it. Technically, you don't even have to run DS since if there's an obsession, the killer will slug instead of committing to a full-on tunnel. You don't even have to use DS if the killer slugs you, and your team can just pick you up if this is the case.

  • Speshul_KittenSpeshul_Kitten Member Posts: 1,861

    As a survivor, the killers I go up against are constantly getting their Undying and Ruin broken, sometimes the latest it last is maybe mid-game, MAYBE.

    DS/Unbreakable has no real counter, you either eat the DS and lose all your momentum or leave them on the floor and let them get up while you are forced to chase another survivor. This makes slugging a common tactic for killers, then survivors complain about that too.

  • Mister_xDMister_xD Member Posts: 7,633

    nono, thats not what "i want to create", thats the general idea behind Undying already.

    Undying is ment to keep your other Hexes alive. that is its effect on the Trial, thats why its called "Undying" and not "Revelation" or sthg similar.

    and if you're looking for similar perks, how about Thrill Of The Hunt? that too is quite literally useless without other Hexes (and funnily enough its main function is supposed to do what Undying curently does as a nice sidebonus - one is ment to keep other Hexes from being destroyed, the other is ment to reanimate them should they be destroyed. yet Undying just does both of that, completely outshining TOTH in the process.)

    but since you specifically asked for similar perks on the survivor side, even though they do not have a mechanic where the killer can just kick an object on the map to remove some of their perks immediately, i would point over to Blood Pact. This one requires you or others to equip a perk that creates an obsession for it to be usefull / it requires the killer or someone else to have a perk that switches the obsession around (Nemesis, Furtive Chase or Decisive Strike for example) should you be the one that is the Obsession / should the obsession have died.


    the only reason why i believe the aura reading aspect of Undying ever even made it into the game in the first place is, because the Devs needed something that would make the different perk tiers unique.

    i dont think they really thought about how huge that aura reading actually is.

  • Mister_xDMister_xD Member Posts: 7,633

    in terms of how boring they are to play against, yes they are very equal. at least in solo q (which is what im mostly playing).

    its a hex that pretty much negates its own downsides.

    it makes other hexes completely ignore the risk of being destroyed, it protects itself with the aura reveal (allowing the killer to interrupt cleansing) AND it covers up its other potential downside of just doing Dull Totems in order to prevent other Hexes from respawning.

    in other words, eigther remove the aura reading all together or at least remove it from Dull Totems (it makes no sense its on them in the first place - and its the root of many of the original problems ive had with it, e.g. Survivors being revealed without having any chance to know they are, as they havent even been made aware of any Hexes presence) in order to create some actual counterplay to this perk that isnt either queueing up as SWF to coordinate your totem assaults or hoping to get lucky with RNG and spawning on top of the Undying totem, cleansing it before the killer can even make it over to you.

  • voorheesgtvoorheesgt Member Posts: 824

    I totally agree with you.

    I'm a killer main and ds ub doesn't bother me too much. I already try not to tunnel.

  • immortalls96immortalls96 Member Posts: 4,652

    This game is going to be organized around swf power..it has to be..people are finally fed up with bad changes being made because their solo q survivors have multiple handicaps thanks to matchmaking being abysmal..its a hex..its supposed to be strong because its the biggest weakness a perk can have..also saying it negates its own weakness is a straight up falsehood and you know it..

  • Claudette_BaguetteClaudette_Baguette Member Posts: 567

    Ruin + Undying has a counter to it. AND you have to get survivors off of gens to make it work.

    DS + Unbreakable require no skill and has zero counterplay.

  • dspaceman20dspaceman20 Member Posts: 4,267

    Can you explain this to me. I don't agree that DS and Unbreakable doesn't have any counters. Ignoring the obvious hook multiple survivor still get stunned the best way is to counter it is to get it out the way as soon as possible, the biggest flaw out of these perks that people seem to not notice is that both are 1 use perks. Meaning once DS and Unbreakable are used they can't be used again, why don't killers just make survivor use them early on, then from there you can tunnel and slug all you want?

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