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6 Changes to make DS more Like a Anti-Tunneling Perk

DarkMagikDarkMagik Member Posts: 794
edited December 2020 in Feedback and Suggestions

I thought long about this long & hard,about the time when first the twins came out.

1)Will DS is Activated the Survivor gain the Incapacitated Status Effect for the duration of DS.

2)While DS is activated,nearby the health state shows a DS Icon to tell that DS is activated.

3)While DS is Activated being chased pauses the Timer.

4)Upon entering a Locker DS will deactivate which in turns means no Incapacitated Status

5)If you have DS activated & someone gets Unhooked who has a Active DS,your DS will be Deactivated(There can only be 1 DS at a Time)

6)While DS is activated you cant be Caged.


Reasons

1)People have the Problem that DS is 60 seconds of immunity so i made trade,you may be immune but you cant do gens,&this will deter the killer from tunneling you because you are not able to do gens.

2)This is to help killers know if DS is still up.

3)This is to make the killer deterred from tunneling because if they down you they know that the will be wasting a'lot of time.

4)This is to give the survivor the choice to be useful earlier but at the cost of their immunity.This will in turn take out the Locker DS Strategy/BS.Also in the DEV Stream the DEVs said something about DS & when is it considered tunneling or something along those lines,so let the survivors decide if its safe or not.

5)At that point the killer is not tunneling.

6)People would throw chases instead of being hit by the trails so this is to stop that.Which in turns PH Hook,Tunnel, Cage Strategy

Post edited by MandyTalk on

Comments

  • XayrlenXayrlen Member Posts: 329

    What about number 7?

  • DarkMagikDarkMagik Member Posts: 794

    Changed Tittle & Added Reasons

  • HollowsGriefHollowsGrief Member Posts: 1,497
    edited December 2020

    You want a change to make it anti tunnel? 30s duration, timer no longer counts down during a chase, automatically deactivates when you interact with anything other than a window or pallet, also only one DS at a time can be up and permanently deactivated after the final gen is done. There you go, the perk is now fixed and actually an anti tunnel perk without all the bullsh1t.

  • TheGannManTheGannMan Member Posts: 8,518
    1. I don't think this will fix DS. I actually feel like it'll harm the perk more than anything. Yes, the issue with DS is people use it as a perk that makes them feel invincible for 60 seconds so they have the nerve to work on a gen or cleanse a totem right in front of the killer's face, but they still need to be able to help out the team when they can, so this idea would benefit the killer more.
    2. If this idea was used, DS would be super counterable. You kind of have to run unbreakable with it which is already a huge problem in itself because that combination is so stupid.
    3. Yes, this idea will work and will make DS into an actual anti-tunneling perk instead of "I'm invincible" perk. Scott Jund had this exact idea where the timer for DS is 30 seconds and pauses if the killer is chasing you. If you work on a gen or do anything else the perk deactivates until next time you are unhooked.
    4. Eh, not sure how I feel about this one.
    5. If idea 3 would be implemented, this wouldn't even need to happen so this isn't the solution.
    6. Yeah, I always found it scummy how PH was able to tunnel people for free by just simply sending them to cages which avoids DS, so I think this should be considered.
  • ZtarShotZtarShot Member Posts: 833

    This is easy. Just give it the PGTW treatment (-15 seconds) and shorten the stun time. There all better.

  • RattmanRattman Member Posts: 1,194

    What if killer slugging you, then downs and hooks another person, then hooks you nearby. Then 2 unhooks happen almost at the same time, but your first, while other person also have DS? Or, what if you get unhooked and then killers tunnels you, knowing that survs have to do second unhook?

    Also, nothing really changes with DS+Unbreakable combo. What if killer have to heavily rely on slugging? Like Oni, or to prevent goddamn key escapes?

    Aside from that, I'd also add a change that deactivates DS during EGC. That's still free escape basically.

  • SocialDistomancySocialDistomancy Member Posts: 1,319
    edited December 2020

    I think before doing anything that impacts killer gameplay in the more negative, like more sweat or able to be more easily toyed with/trolled they need to first put those AI steered bots into the game. There is 6 months before Back 4 Blood comes out, and ats ome point next year an Evil Dead multiplayer game may be released as well. Turtle Rock (original Left 4 Dead developers have stuck around when their company broke from Valve and became what it is now) is making Back 4 Blood, some of their developers basically created thats tyle of gameplay working on the original Left 4 Dead. Saber iirc, is making the Evil dead game and has proven themselves on the Witcher 3 Port for Nintendo Switch and the World War Z game, both companies could produce something more fun, stable, and pretty yet at high fps than behavior in my opinion.

    Behavior has about that long to convince me I shouldn't quit dbd for another nearly 4 years. Long queues as survivor and unbearably miserable killer gameplay that I would rather wait in queue for 20 minutes as survivor instead to avoid isn't the way to keep me interested.

  • SeanzuSeanzu Member Posts: 6,767
    edited December 2020

    DS won't get changed as much as people want it too, there's far too many killers who see no obsession in a game and instantly tunnel off hook, it's almost mandatory for at least one survivor to be running DS for the rest of the survivors to not get tunnelled.

    All these changes make it useless, which the devs will never do.

  • Saltjar34Saltjar34 Member Posts: 766

    Number 5 should probably be changed to when another survivor is hooked. Same effect but less time needed

  • KateDunsonKateDunson Member Posts: 655
    edited December 2020

    The number 1 and 3 are the changes ive always wanted

  • MoundshroudMoundshroud Member Posts: 4,460

    Well, as the DEV has stated, DS is not an Anti-Tunnel Perk. The fact that many of insist on calling it that has little to no bearing on reality. DS is just something they came up with for Strode originally to fit the first Halloween movie where she does in fact stab the Shape with improvised weapons.

    DS does need changes, but they are very simple.

    1. DS activates after every unhook, i.e. yes it can be used more than once.
    2. It lasts for 30, 45, 60 seconds depending on Level.
    3. Nothing pauses the timer.
    4. Interacting with your environment in any way other than running, vaulting, and/or entering or exiting lockers deactivates it.
    5. It will not activate during the EGC but if already started it will continue until deactivated by the end of the timer or interacting with the environment.

    That's it. That is all it would take to keep the flavor of the Perk and make it focused on being an anti-Tunnel Perk. You can use it more than once, but you cannot abuse it to do other things. It is for getting away, period.

  • dezzmontdezzmont Member Posts: 481

    The killer should be allowed to punish bad unhooks. Any change that prevents this breaks the gameplay dynamic between killers and survivors and causes slugsville.

  • Steel_EyedSteel_Eyed Member Posts: 3,369

    DS needs to be buffed, not nerfed. Duration is too short. Sixty seconds is nothing and the stun is too short. Some killers it’s like they didn’t even eat a stun because of their power: Nurse and Spirit.

    I think it’s completely okay to make DS activate with two chances for each unhook rather than once.

  • RandDBDRandDBD Member Posts: 92

    Keep DS the same, make it only available if you are carrying an object, otherwise, DS just accelerates your wiggle time when hitting the skill checks.

  • dezzmontdezzmont Member Posts: 481
    edited December 2020

    So, to be clear, you think it should take 5 minutes minimum each survivor to eliminate eliminate them, and that DS, one of the most frustrating anti-fun perks in the game, should be even more of a negative experience for the killer if someone camps a locker with it?

    Here is a better idea: If you don't want to be eliminated from the game, get better at it. DS was nerfed and is still arguably too strong. It was the most powerful perk in the game ever and completely destroyed the meta in 2017 back when there was no counterplay. DS is meant to be a 'weak' deterrent, as are all anti-hooking deterrents, because the killer is supposed to be more powerful than the survivors at the hook and be allowed to score.

    If you don't want your teammate to get eliminated, don't unhook while the killer is there. Instead force them off the hook by pressuring gens, so that they have to leave if they don't want to lose. If they still don't leave, punish them, have 3 of your 4 teammates pip, and pat yourself on the back for climbing overall gaining .5 pips on average assuming the camped survivor is randomly distributed.

  • Steel_EyedSteel_Eyed Member Posts: 3,369

    To be clear, I think DS could use a buff and the nerf talk is silly. I can pull my killer credentials if you want or just click on my profile.

    The game is built where the killer will win any chase. Survivors cannot get away indefinitely. Nerfing DS makes this game hanky panky and I don’t want players on this forum turning a game I enjoy (because it’s difficult) into plushy easy win trials.

  • Freddy96Freddy96 Member Posts: 639

    If it has to be a real anti tunneling perk then it should work more than once otherwise those are just nerfs to make it easier to counter not to make it an anti tunneling perk

  • dezzmontdezzmont Member Posts: 481
    edited December 2020

    I am not saying that DS should be nerfed more. It WAS nerfed. It is in a really good space now where the killer has counterplay around it and isn't just arbitrarily punished with having to win an extra chase every game.

    Killer wins every chase eventually, but that isn't the same as the game being so killer sided that DS is an inevitable requirement. I think if your saying that you absolutely can't win enough chases without DS to consistently perk, your not as good a player as you think you are, despite your playtime. DS could literally vanish and the game would be fine (though, again, I don't think DS needs a nerf right now), because DS doesn't actually serve a mandatory need and more exists as an interesting tool in the toolbelt right now where it forces the killer to be a bit less efficient while still giving them a big reward for good play.

    I just do not respect people who think that they deserve to not get tunneled down for being as aggressive (Like you are, I peeked at your YouTube, you are good but you definitely don't respect killers enough to make the claim that you think you can't outplay killers and come across as sincere. Like clearly you do not *actually* think killer is *that* OP if your so comfortable doing things like repairing right in front of a huntress like its whatever, not saying your bad, quite the opposite, your too good to actually believe this) and failing at it. Someone getting tunneled just means that someone on the survivor side made a critical error and worsened their gamestate, not that the killer is being unfair. Like if you unhook at a point where the killer can down the unhooked survivor trivially within a minute without the unhooked survivor being able to enter a full new chase? You kinda made a mistake, and you don't deserve to stay up.

    Bad plays should have consequences, and the game has JUST started to move out of a place where survivors were allowed to do whatever they wanted without having to care about the killer (vacuum revert, DS nerf) and now need to actually know how to play the game with stuff like 50/50s, solid looping rather than the bare minimum, and full breakaways. Wanting DS to be stronger is saying "I want the devs to do good unhooks automatically for me."

    Like, again, hell no on the DS buff to having multi charges and a longer stun. Hell no on ANY DS buff. The perk's function exists to give you breathing room, not to invalidate the killer winning chases, which is in fact quite hard to do vs good survivors who understand how to use resources (Which is understood to be an issue. There is a reason they are generally redesigning maps to be less survivor sided, and not buffing killer sided maps for example).

    To paraphrase someone who is much more eloquent than me about this: The wiggle phase existing isn't there so that you can seriously get a chance to escape the killer. It is there to prevent every hook from being a basement hook. Likewise, DS isn't there to actually give you extra-lives from the killer (anymore, thank GOD, if we buff DS again we WILL see another killer strike, I am willing to put money on that), it is there to lessen the tempo advantage from a rapid-re-down. If you want the killer to not get ANY tempo advantage from an unhook... don't unhook poorly. Like flat out, do better at it, the perk shouldn't let you make a blatant mistake that you have no business making and not only not be punished for it but get a big advantage like a super long stun.

    It is already the longest stun at the game with an unmitigatable 5 seconds, which is already a 20 meter head start, which means a minimum chase duration of 38 seconds assuming open ground and no ranged aspect to a killer power. That means in the time it currently takes to finish someone who DS stuns you, the survivor team gets to do 1.5 gens. How much better can a DS stun really get before your basically admitting you don't want the killer to be able to hook someone twice in a row ever?

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